Lemon quote on the fans

[CusefanATL]

SU does have a cult following but its for our basketball program and the reason is we win consistently and are almost always in the post season and when we have a down year its armageddon. When teams/programs go decades without winning the casual fan and the local who is just looking for something to do simply stop showing up. All the schools you mentioned are D1 powerhouses or former powerhouses with decade after decade of success. Comparing SU to those teams is like a Providence bball fan wondering why there fanbase cant be more like SU's.

I am not comparing them to anybody. If it can happen in those places (no pro team and in a smaller city) then it can happen in Syracuse. As scooch said, the culture is what is made by the fans. It is not orchestrated.

Culture is not an 'excuse' for poor attendance, it is the 'reason' for poor attendance. That is the disconnect between me and a few of the poster's here.

 

[Scooch]

excellent post scooch.

Thanks. And let me be clear, I'm not someone who's upset about the crowd for Stony Brook.

The program has basically sucked for 10 years, and we were playing a no-name D-1AA school. I was actually surprised we had as many people there as we did.

Now, if we win this weekend, and then only get 30-35K butts in the seats for the Friday night game vs. Pitt, I'll be a little disappointed. But I'll just keep coming back to WVU last year -- we were 5-2 (albeit an ugly-as-hell-5-2) and drew 45K for that game.

We win some games and we'll draw just fine. This town/gown pissing match is tiring. I wish everyone involved would knock it off.

 

[rrlbees]

What do you think keeps the alumni away?

44-79 and...

What do you think keeps the students away?

44-79 and...

Record shouldn't matter. We've had a few people here, alums, that tell the locals you support the program through think and thin. You must not agree with them.

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[JeremyCuse]

I am not comparing them to anybody. If it can happen in those places (no pro team and in a smaller city) then it can happen in Syracuse. As scooch said, the culture is what is made by the fans. It is not orchestrated.

Culture is not an 'excuse' for poor attendance, it is the 'reason' for poor attendance. That is the disconnect between me and a few of the poster's here.

It happened there because those teams were winning and winning consistently for decades +, this team hasnt really done jack sh$t since 1998, what exaclty do you expect attendance to be? Do you think those teams would be selling out today for Stony Brook if they had our record over the past decade? Culture is something that is cultivated over years and years of winning and on field performance. Its the reason SU basketball gets 15,000 fans for a game against Colgate and Penn State bball gets 1,500.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Record shouldn't matter. We've had a few people here, alums, that tell the locals you support the program through think and thin. You must not agree with them.

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Ya while 90% of those Alumni sit on there ass and havent been to the dome in years.

 

[Scooch]

Record shouldn't matter. We've had a few people here, alums, that tell the locals you support the program through think and thin. You must not agree with them.

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I totally understand attendance being down because the program has sucked. Totally.

Now, what I don't get is all the rationalization that some folks seem to trot out. I see people saying people don't go because of "get a life/one horse town", because parking/traffic is a pain, because there aren't pony rides on the quad, etc. That is ridiculous to me.

 

[ForCuseSake]

I think the students dont care (as evidenced by the swarms leaving at halftime since 2003, my frosh year so I speak of this as 1st hand knowledge - i am pretty sure it goes back further, but didnt pay attention).

students who don't show up and when they do leave early, turn into alum's who dont attend games.

Sorry but this post just reminded me of this:



EDIT - Just realized that if you were a frosh in 2003 this may fly over your head (unless you had older siblings)

 

[JeremyCuse]

I totally understand attendance being down because the program has sucked. Totally.

Now, what I don't get is all the rationalization that some folks seem to trot out. I see people saying people don't go because of "get a life/one horse town", because parking/traffic is a pain, because there aren't pony rides on the quad, etc. That is ridiculous to me.

You are correct scooch, the overwhelming reason att is down is due to the win loss record and thats not debatable. However, there is a % of fans that don't go to games for a variety of reasons including some who still can't get over the comments about get a life. While personally I think that is ed it does happen and there are hundreds if not thousands of former fans who left and never came back. Issues like parking, lack of access to tailgating, lack of high profile OOC games, congestion near the dome, etc do keep some fans away but those are more cumulative in effect that have worn down prior season ticket holders or those who may go to 1 or 2 games but skip out on seasons. The big reason is that an overwhelming majority of people in the CNY and 2+ hour radius simply dont care about SU football and going to games doesnt even register. Winning will help solve all those problems especially the last one.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing?

Name anyplace where a "sports culture" has been built largely by the marketing dept or athletic dept of a school, or even a pro franchise, and not largely from the fanbase itself?

I mean one can argue that the Yankees have the same kind of "cult" following in New York as Alabama football has in Alabama. What did the Yankees do to build that, aside from winning all the time? They have a stadium that is a pain to get to, in a sketchy area (to put it mildly), with outrageous prices. And yet, millions come, happily.

I keep asking this Bees but aside from moving the game to NYC (which I understand) what exactly has SU done the past 10 years to piss you off so royally, aside from sucking?

I gather that they've cut a lot of booster perks, presumably, but that only affects those giving at that level, not the larger population that we need to put another 10K in the Dome regularly to fill it up.

I'm sincerely interested in how they've been so terrible.

Never said a cult is built by a marketing dep't.

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[Scooch]

Never said a cult is built by a marketing dep't.

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*sigh*

First part of that was responding to another poster, last part was for you (if that wasn't clear).

But clearly you're not interested in explaining your angst, so I'll stop asking and start ignoring.

 

[dollarbill44]

The only solution is to have a winning record every season (or just about). Do this, and you will see incremental increases in attendance year after year so that eventually, you're selling out the opener and another big game during the season. Start putting up 10 and 11 win seasons on a consistent basis and you will start selling out every game (probably will never happen ).

Anything short of consistent winning will not bring the casual fans and won't build any sustained excitement that will create new, lifelong fans.

Students and alumni (as a whole) have not held up their end, imo. I can't tell you how many alums I've seen leave at halftime of games to go to the bars. I just don't get it. Why spend the money to go to a game you're not even interested in. I remember trying to get kids on my floor to go to football games with me my sophomore year at SU - and this was in 1988 and these kids had tix!!! The culture just isn't there at SU for some reason and it's really nothing new. There have almost always been a lot of empty seats for home games (save for the big rivalries) as long as there has been football at SU.

 

[Cuseman78]

actually, CNYers think its their god given right to have a high-level football team and it when it doesnt meet their expectations they shlit on it.

a bunch of thin skinned idiots 'left' when Buzz told them to get a life???...GOOD, STAY AWAY.

a bunch of eedeeots were offended when Jake talked about being the only horse in town and they 'left'...GOOD, STAY AWAY.

they want to pick the Fn schedule, they want to pick the Fn teams to play, they want to pick the offense which is run and none can figure out if the game is on tv.

to hell with em.

Oh Lord

You've hit the nail on the head in only the way UEO can. On point.

 

[Chip]

A whole 11 months ago we drew 45,000 against West Virginia.

These attendance threads are fukking stupid.

We win, we'll draw.

That's it.

Now everyone shut the hell up about it.

Well, against good teams. You and I can go back to our freshman year (even though we didn't know each other, and I might have had several freshman years), when Vandy opened at the Dome in front of 35k. 2 weeks before Florida played in front of 49k.

We were coming off a 28-0 Aloha Bowl victory over Arizona, there were exciting players all over the place. And 35k were there to open the season.

Because...many...Syracuse...fans...just...don't...care...to...watch...teams...like...Vandy. (although all of us here do). And that has absolutely nothing to do with how fans have been treated.

Can we overcome it? Much like how WVU overcame their home crowd issues under RichRod? I hope so. They weren't always the show up no matter what group that they became in the early part of the century.

 

[Scooch]

Well, against good teams. You and I can go back to our freshman year (even though we didn't know each other, and I might have had several freshman years), when Vandy opened at the Dome in front of 35k. 2 weeks before Florida played in front of 49k.

We were coming off a 28-0 Aloha Bowl victory over Arizona, there were exciting players all over the place. And 35k were there to open the season.

Because...many...Syracuse...fans...just...don't...care...to...watch...teams...like...Vandy. (although all of us here do). And that has absolutely nothing to do with how fans have been treated.

Can we overcome it? Much like how WVU overcame their home crowd issues under RichRod? I hope so. They weren't always the show up no matter what group that they became in the early part of the century.

Oh yeah, very true.

I always reference the Rutgers game in 1998... We had just gone to the last play against Tennessee, then whooped Michigan, being touted as a national title contender even though we were 1-1... Annnd we drew 42K for Rutgers.

But, I think that's the floor for when we're real good and playing a crappy opponent. I think we can live with that.

 

[Scooch]

One other thing that's worth mentioning...

I think the dysfunctional pricing scheme that Chip and Bayside have discussed makes our crowds look particularly bad. Whenever we have less than 42-43K actual people in the building there are large pockets of silver everywhere, especially between the 10s.

Last weekend UConn played NC State and drew 34K. Yet despite having 6K empty seats the Rent looked OK because the place was generally full on the sidelines. The corners were sparse, but aesthetically that doesn't look nearly as bad as having 30% of sections on the first level sideline empty. We get that even when there are 3rd levels sections more full.

I wish one of our enterprising friends from the Post-Standard would ask Gross about our pricing model. It seems totally inadequate to me.

 

[orangecuse]

Oh yeah, very true.

I always reference the Rutgers game in 1998... We had just gone to the last play against Tennessee, then whooped Michigan, being touted as a national title contender even though we were 1-1... Annnd we drew 42K for Rutgers.

But, I think that's the floor for when we're real good and playing a crappy opponent. I think we can live with that.

Come on, that's just a poor analogy...Rutgers wasn't the powerhouse then as they are today.

 

[Scooch]

By the way, LSU gave up a previously scheduled home game with TCU and will open the season against them in Dallas at Jerry World next year.

I'm sure their fanbase is up in arms. Bet a lot of people won't buy season tix next year because of it.

 

[rrlbees]

By the way, LSU gave up a previously scheduled home game with TCU and will open the season against them in Dallas at Jerry World next year.

I'm sure their fanbase is up in arms. Bet a lot of people won't buy season tix next year because of it.

Yea, because TCU is their biggest game and they signed up to do it 14 times.

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[rrlbees]

You've hit the nail on the head in only the way UEO can. On point.

I assume you are an alum too? Since UEO and others can't answer, do you know why alum and students stay away?

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[rrlbees]

*sigh*

First part of that was responding to another poster, last part was for you (if that wasn't clear).

But clearly you're not interested in explaining your angst, so I'll stop asking and start ignoring.

Well, I've mentioned a few of them but people ignored them because they don't like facts or other peoples realities as to why they left.

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[SouthCampusHero]

I assume you are an alum too? Since UEO and others can't answer, do you know why alum and students stay away?

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The Green Bay Packers played home games in Milwaukee for YEARS (partially to build a fan base in the state's largest city and partially because the games in Milwaukee generated more revenue). Sounds awfully familiar. The Packers discontinued playing home games in Milwaukee after 1) Lambeau Field was improved substantially and 2) the team started winning (Brett Favre).

oops- replied to the wrong post

 

[Cuseman78]

I assume you are an alum too? Since UEO and others can't answer, do you know why alum and students stay away?

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Yes an alum. And I've said multiple times that locals, students, and alums all suck right now (though the students have done the best so far) and that winning should cure all.

My issue is with the constant complaining and the repeated claim that the locals are staying away because of actions of the athletic department. I would like to think that people are staying away because we aren't winning enough. I dont like it, but I can atleast understand that.

But I keep hearing that people are staying away because the University makes it difficult to be a fan (ie MetLife games, parking issues, etc). If that's truly the case, then Thats disappointing. And people are still referencing Buzz Shaw 10+ years on so i can see that being true.

I find it disappointing that fans are finding things to bitch about instead of supporting HCDM and the program in general. I don't love every single thing the AD does (ie seat pricing), but I don't let it effect my support for the program nor my attendance at games wherever they may be Played.

I would like to see, for example, how much support this team gets coming into their first conference game 2-2 and a road win over a b1g team.

 

[Chip]

One other thing that's worth mentioning...

I think the dysfunctional pricing scheme that Chip and Bayside have discussed makes our crowds look particularly bad. Whenever we have less than 42-43K actual people in the building there are large pockets of silver everywhere, especially between the 10s.

Last weekend UConn played NC State and drew 34K. Yet despite having 6K empty seats the Rent looked OK because the place was generally full on the sidelines. The corners were sparse, but aesthetically that doesn't look nearly as bad as having 30% of sections on the first level sideline empty. We get that even when there are 3rd levels sections more full.

I wish one of our enterprising friends from the Post-Standard would ask Gross about our pricing model. It seems totally inadequate to me.

It is strange. I mean it's been an obvious glaring problem for years. Are they thinking the risk of lowering the donation level won't increase season tix and then they're out that money? Are they just betting we'll be good again and it will work itself out? Now, with the ACC move that has a better chance.

As my good pal JK said at the Northwestern game, they don't need to paint the bleachers, they need to paint the concrete. That will truly orange the place up. Maybe that's next year's solution.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

One other thing that's worth mentioning...

I think the dysfunctional pricing scheme that Chip and Bayside have discussed makes our crowds look particularly bad. Whenever we have less than 42-43K actual people in the building there are large pockets of silver everywhere, especially between the 10s.

Last weekend UConn played NC State and drew 34K. Yet despite having 6K empty seats the Rent looked OK because the place was generally full on the sidelines. The corners were sparse, but aesthetically that doesn't look nearly as bad as having 30% of sections on the first level sideline empty. We get that even when there are 3rd levels sections more full.

I wish one of our enterprising friends from the Post-Standard would ask Gross about our pricing model. It seems totally inadequate to me.

How do you convince people to purchase $200+ sideline tickets to watch bad football, when they can see the game just as well from the $100 end zones? That's why there are plenty of upper level non-preferred seats are still available.

For a 5 game home schedule, seasons shouldn't cost more than $165. Seriously, $41 for Stonybrook?

 

[Louie&Bouie]

I'd like to think that I have a somewhat interesting, if not unique perspective on this issue. I graduated from SU in 1992 and in 1996 moved to the South (Louisiana and North Carolina) for 9 years. I married a woman from Liverpool who was brave enough (I'd make the obligatory "or dumb enough" joke here, but she's far smarter than me) to follow me.

When we returned to Syracuse to start my business, with four boys in tow, I had one request. That my wife not complain about the cost of six season tickets for both football and basketball. We don't spend a ton--only "C" level contributors, but some of my fondest memories have come high-fiving my family members during games there. My eldest son (14 years old now) likes to say that the only time I cry is on Senior Day, twice a year... Hey, if you can't give up a few tears for Doug Hogue or Arinze Onuaku, what kind of person are you?

Upon our return, I was appalled by the lack of interest in our football program that I encountered from friends (and some family). We're talking about people that had held season tickets for 10-25 years. While I have always felt that many SU fans were fickle, I could not believe how many people had made a conscientious decision not to continue their support of this program. Many were, and remain to this day, the first people to bitch about the program, it's direction, and it's lack of success over the last ten years. Hell, I live in Fairway East in Liverpool, and don't know 5 other families in our development that have season tickets. That is mind-numbing to me.

I'm not smart enough to tell you all whether this apathy is a direct result of on-field results or a poor job of marketing this program by our athletic department. My opinion (keep in mind that it is an opinion, not fact) is that winning will cure a lot of these woes. IMO, SU has always had a die-hard "base" of about 35k fans. For a variety of reasons, defined by each individual, they have stayed away in recent years. If we start winning, we will climb back up to 40-45k fans for big games.

Bring a kid from your neighborhood. Despite the protestations of some, you can bring a group of six to the dome for a helluva lot less than it would cost to take the same 6 people to a dinner @ Bonefish. Sneak in some bourbon. And Skittles. Everybody wins. And you are making an impression on the next potential group of fans/customers. This team is exciting. And improving.

I'm reminded of a conversation that Harmon Killebrew's father once had with Harmon's mother, May, who was upset that her two sons were outside tearing up the lawn and the flower beds. After listening to his wife complain, he said "We're raising boys, May. Not grass."

I say let's raise some fans. Old and young.

Go Orange.