Lemon quote on the fans

[Moontan]

We are #18...now compare the football programs at those smaller and get back to me

There are only 17 private schools that play FBS football. Follow the link in my signature for some related info.

 

[OttoMets]

The program has failed them? Are you kidding. It's a COLLEGE FOOTBALL team. It's not a pro team, and get this sport, they don't OWE you anything, other than effort and to try to run the program the right way. That's it. They don't OWE you playing a style you like, they don't OWE you wins.

Here's the thing, a fan is a fan, which means support come hell or high water. You don't go out of your way to find offense, you support the team, regardless of difficulty, and you, I hate to be repetitive, support the team.

A fan does not accumilate (perceived) personal affronts and wallow in them all the time. A fan does not go out of his way to only focus on negatives to all exclusion of obvious positives.

Here's a couple of questions for you, and be honest. From kickoff to the end of the game, do you ever actually cheer for the team? Do you ever actually applaud them for a good play? Have you ever made a post on this board to acknowledge, and not in a gruding backhanded way but a purely positive manner, the actual obvious and fundamental improvements in the program?

Good post.

What kind of a child complains for a decade because the chancellor of a university whose football team he allegedly likes says that whiners calling for the coach's head should "get a life"?

There is a loud minority of people looking for an excuse to be offended. Thin-skinned people with a persecution complex.

 

[rrlbees]

Good post.

What kind of a child complains for a decade because the chancellor of a university whose football team he allegedly likes says that whiners calling for the coach's head should "get a life"?

There is a loud minority of people looking for an excuse to be offended. Thin-skinned people with a persecution complex.

Not sure anyone is complaining about the comment itself but instead are giving it as one of the large number or reasons fans left at that time. The comment DID drive some fans away. Doubt if many came back that left since the program has been down ever since.

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[SWC75]

Most of those schools are sooooo much bigger. Silly to compare

But it's not the schools we are talking about. It's the fan base. We are so much better basketball fans than football fans here and that helps the basketball program tremedously. Of course the basketball team wins more. Chicken or egg? Both.

 

[SWC75]

I don't know how you read that into my post. I am not some kid in my 20's who goes and gets drunk and stands and shouts the whole game just to act like a fool. I go with family most games or business associates on occasion. I act like like a normal person. Cheer when there is something to cheer about and when its appropriate. I don't see how that is a fairweather fan honestly but whatever.

I do most of my cheering before the play.


DEEEFENSE...DEEEFENSE...DEEEFENSE!

"Meet at the quarterback! Knock him on his butt!"

"All the way on this play!!!!!"

LET'S GO ORANGE!!!

And I don't drink.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

The 100 posts in this thread have been swell. It's a nice re-hast of every attendance argument that has been made here for the last 8 years.

That being said, it doesnt change the fact that Lemon should be focused on his and the team's performance. Leave the fan stuff to Gross and the Assistant ADs.

 

[orangeintheacc]

I get that there are a host of reasons why the dome is half empty (or is it half full?). Bad football, snubs of the loyal fan base, games moved out of town, etc., etc. Being relatively new to the Dome experience let me give you my two cents. I believe another major reason the dome is sparsely populated is due to the woeful lack of parking for the casual fan. If you don't have a permit to one of the main lots (and what casual fan does) parking and the trek to the dome is a joke. Whoever way back when decided to put the dome in the middle of campus doomed the dome attendance to mediocrity as Syracuse may be the most vehicle unfriendly campus in the country! The dome perimeter is guarded by Barney Fife filled booths at every street demanding to see your papers and know your intentions. I find it is easier to cross the border into Canada than to get by these people. Parking on the streets (the few that you can actually get through due to construction) is strictly forbidden as I saw several cars being towed at yesterday's game. This leaves the casual fan with few options: park at sky top and take the bus or park in one the parking structures and hike it to the dome.

I'm not sure what the answer is short of moving the dome, but to get the casual fan to show up you've got to look at the total game day experience and make it a little more customer friendly if at all possible.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I get that there are a host of reasons why the dome is half empty (or is it half full?). Bad football, snubs of the loyal fan base, games moved out of town, etc., etc. Being relatively new to the Dome experience let me give you my two cents. I believe another major reason the dome is sparsely populated is due to the woeful lack of parking for the casual fan. If you don't have a permit to one of the main lots (and what casual fan does) parking and the trek to the dome is a joke. Whoever way back when decided to put the dome in the middle of campus doomed the dome attendance to mediocrity as Syracuse may be the most vehicle unfriendly campus in the country! The dome perimeter is guarded by Barney Fife filled booths at every street demanding to see your papers and know your intentions. I find it is easier to cross the border into Canada than to get by these people. Parking on the streets (the few that you can actually get through due to construction) is strictly forbidden as I saw several cars being towed at yesterday's game. This leaves the casual fan with few options: park at sky top and take the bus or park in one the parking structures and hike it to the dome.

I'm not sure what the answer is short of moving the dome, but to get the casual fan to show up you've got to look at the total game day experience and make it a little more customer friendly if at all possible.

For the casual fan parking can be a nightmare, SU does a very poor job of letting people know that there is a parking garage available across the street from the dome to park. Many casual fans also arent aware of the whole sky top parking area or aren't interested in parking there and dealing with the bus situation. Luckily myself and a host of others do have parking passes in the few remaining lots around the dome but even they are dissapearing at an alarming rate. People who dont attend games like to laugh the issue off but parking is becoming a bigger issue and actually geting worse as time goes on.

 

[Stern]

I do most of my cheering before the play.


DEEEFENSE...DEEEFENSE...DEEEFENSE!

"Meet at the quarterback! Knock him on his butt!"

"All the way on this play!!!!!"

LET'S GO ORANGE!!!

And I don't drink.

Good for you. I am not telling people how to cheer or how to be a fan. I really don't care and think its a silly issue. Others like to tell people how to act and how to spend their money, I find that silly.

 

[rrlbees]

I get that there are a host of reasons why the dome is half empty (or is it half full?). Bad football, snubs of the loyal fan base, games moved out of town, etc., etc. Being relatively new to the Dome experience let me give you my two cents. I believe another major reason the dome is sparsely populated is due to the woeful lack of parking for the casual fan. If you don't have a permit to one of the main lots (and what casual fan does) parking and the trek to the dome is a joke. Whoever way back when decided to put the dome in the middle of campus doomed the dome attendance to mediocrity as Syracuse may be the most vehicle unfriendly campus in the country! The dome perimeter is guarded by Barney Fife filled booths at every street demanding to see your papers and know your intentions. I find it is easier to cross the border into Canada than to get by these people. Parking on the streets (the few that you can actually get through due to construction) is strictly forbidden as I saw several cars being towed at yesterday's game. This leaves the casual fan with few options: park at sky top and take the bus or park in one the parking structures and hike it to the dome.

I'm not sure what the answer is short of moving the dome, but to get the casual fan to show up you've got to look at the total game day experience and make it a little more customer friendly if at all possible.

You are correct and said it very well. But that is just one of many many things that have been done, been said, or not done to be counter to growing and keeping a committed fanbase.

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[alphaorange]

miami - much smaller
duke
wake - much smaller
northwestern- much smaller
stanford - much smaller undergrad
bc
usc - much bigger
vandy
baylor - same size

who am i missing as far as private football schools?

Northwestern is the same size as of '10, Wake draws just over 30k ( and this is in an extremely vibrant area), BC is at 38k in a major metropolitan area, Duke can't draw flies, Vandy is in football paradise(as has been discussed) and still draws but 32k. You're wiggling and twisting but your argument is all over the map. We'll surpass Wake and probably BC in just a couple of years, economy be damned.
Do some research and you will a lot of unfilled stadiums. BC is the 5th best private school as far as % capacity and it is at 86%. Their stadium is apparently about the size of ours. I would guess that had USC been in the dome, we would be averaging about 33-35k per game this year. You are not going to sell out with Stoney playing. I think that having the big names out of the dome is partly what Bees and others are saying. These are the games that even casual fans will turn out for and the diehards deserve to see them without having to drive 11 hours. The NY area alumni have had a chance and will probably get another but they need to put up or stop blaming the CNYers.

 

[SWC75]

Good for you. I am not telling people how to cheer or how to be a fan. I really don't care and think its a silly issue. Others like to tell people how to act and how to spend their money, I find that silly.

I just told you what I did. But imagine if we had a Dome full of people who did that before every play. I would think that would help the team quite alot. More than not wanting to be silly.

 

[SWC75]

Northwestern is the same size as of '10, Wake draws just over 30k ( and this is in an extremely vibrant area), BC is at 38k in a major metropolitan area, Duke can't draw flies, Vandy is in football paradise(as has been discussed) and still draws but 32k. You're wiggling and twisting but your argument is all over the map. We'll surpass Wake and probably BC in just a couple of years, economy be damned.
Do some research and you will a lot of unfilled stadiums. BC is the 5th best private school as far as % capacity and it is at 86%. Their stadium is apparently about the size of ours. I would guess that had USC been in the dome, we would be averaging about 33-35k per game this year. You are not going to sell out with Stoney playing. I think that having the big names out of the dome is partly what Bees and others are saying. These are the games that even casual fans will turn out for and the diehards deserve to see them without having to drive 11 hours. The NY area alumni have had a chance and will probably get another but they need to put up or stop blaming the CNYers.

What does being a private school have to do with fan attendance?

 

[OttoMets]

Not sure anyone is complaining about the comment itself but instead are giving it as one of the large number or reasons fans left at that time. The comment DID drive some fans away. Doubt if many came back that left since the program has been down ever since.

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That's probably true. I don't think too many people on here share that sentiment, but a couple people seem to be bothered by the comment at times. And that's pretty foolish.

Buzz Shaw could kick me in the nuts and call me a bad fan; that wouldn't make me turn my back on my favorite team. If you like SU, you keep looking for reasons to root for them and appreciate your ability to do so.

 

[OttoMets]

I get that there are a host of reasons why the dome is half empty (or is it half full?). Bad football, snubs of the loyal fan base, games moved out of town, etc., etc. Being relatively new to the Dome experience let me give you my two cents. I believe another major reason the dome is sparsely populated is due to the woeful lack of parking for the casual fan. If you don't have a permit to one of the main lots (and what casual fan does) parking and the trek to the dome is a joke. Whoever way back when decided to put the dome in the middle of campus doomed the dome attendance to mediocrity as Syracuse may be the most vehicle unfriendly campus in the country! The dome perimeter is guarded by Barney Fife filled booths at every street demanding to see your papers and know your intentions. I find it is easier to cross the border into Canada than to get by these people. Parking on the streets (the few that you can actually get through due to construction) is strictly forbidden as I saw several cars being towed at yesterday's game. This leaves the casual fan with few options: park at sky top and take the bus or park in one the parking structures and hike it to the dome..

And what's wrong with parking at Skytop and taking a bus? Or parking nearby and walking to the Dome? What sort of parking opportunity do you expect to be offered? (This isn't snark, I'm serious.)

Most vehicle-unfriendly campus in the country? Yikes. I think you're basing this on an awfully small sample size.

Because you saw cars being towed you assume that on-street parking is forbidden? Hundreds of people seem to have no problem finding an on-street spot and parking legally there (for free). It's as simple as reading a street sign and pulling your car into the spot. Just as millions of people do every day in cities all over the world.

These aren't reasons why someone wouldn't attend a game. They're excuses and overstatements.

 

[sufan]

“It would be nice if everyone stayed the whole game and didn’t get up and leave. It’s kind of sucky when you see people get up and leave, but we’re out there playing the game.” - Alec Lemon



Found this interesting quote from the post-game. Rare you see a player (especially a college player) come out against the fans.

Totally understandable from a player's perspective: however, college football is not some kind of obligation; it's a game and if it's interesting then people will attend and stay the whole game.

 

[alphaorange]

What does being a private school have to do with fan attendance?

Sir, with all due respect, you are brighter than to have to ask that question. Private schools are smaller, almost without exception. Smaller schools means a smaller alumni base. A smaller alumni base means smaller numbers of emotionally invested fans. Smaller numbers of emotionally invested fans means less attendance. Simple. Another qualifier is the fact that alumni of state schools tend to be from that state and often stay in that state. Private schools draw from a much wider area and the alumni have no attachment for the area after graduation. I have no stats on this but I would give odds the difference is very substantial.

 

[Cuseman78]

CNY simply doesn't deserve a high-level football team.

 

[rrlbees]

CNY simply doesn't deserve a high-level football team.

The exact same thing can be said of the alumni and students.

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[Cuseman78]

The program has failed them? Are you kidding. It's a COLLEGE FOOTBALL team. It's not a pro team, and get this sport, they don't OWE you anything, other than effort and to try to run the program the right way. That's it. They don't OWE you playing a style you like, they don't OWE you wins.

Here's the thing, a fan is a fan, which means support come hell or high water. You don't go out of your way to find offense, you support the team, regardless of difficulty, and you, I hate to be repetitive, support the team.

A fan does not accumilate (perceived) personal affronts and wallow in them all the time. A fan does not go out of his way to only focus on negatives to all exclusion of obvious positives.

Here's a couple of questions for you, and be honest. From kickoff to the end of the game, do you ever actually cheer for the team? Do you ever actually applaud them for a good play? Have you ever made a post on this board to acknowledge, and not in a gruding backhanded way but a purely positive manner, the actual obvious and fundamental improvements in the program?

Standing Ovation. Thank you. Its nice to know there are some fans out there that see this in the right order instead of worrying about perks, or fan fest times, or parking or ribbon boards. The Athletic department isn't perfect, and they may do things that may not make sense to you, but they've certainly done nothing of significance to intentionally drive away a fan base (Grob hire as the only exception). And if they The posts in this thread by Stern and an admin who shall remain nameless make me sad and frankly scared for the future of this program. Hoping they arent representative of the attitude of this fan base. If it is, we're pretty damn screwed barring a 1987 type squad.

 

[OrangeAl]

This thread started out talking about fans that were in attendance at the Dome, not about why people don't come. My thinking in the Dome is that my head is in the game until it's over.

 

[rrlbees]

Standing Ovation. Thank you. Its nice to know there are some fans out there that see this in the right order instead of worrying about perks, or fan fest times, or parking or ribbon boards. The Athletic department isn't perfect, and they may do things that may not make sense to you, but they've certainly done nothing of significance to intentionally drive away a fan base (Grob hire as the only exception). And if they The posts in this thread by Stern and an admin who shall remain nameless make me sad and frankly scared for the future of this program. Hoping they arent representative of the attitude of this fan base. If it is, we're pretty damn screwed barring a 1987 type squad.

Give it a break. I've gone to games and donated to the program long before you were probably even born. If you think everything is always peaches and cream, I'll just chalk it up to ignorance of facts.

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[Cuseman78]

You are correct and said it very well. But that is just one of many many things that have been done, been said, or not done to be counter to growing and keeping a committed fanbase.

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You and JeremyCuse need to take a field trip to South Campus/SkyTop area. The Fine Lot is not the only place on campus to park your vehicle. And again, for the 50th time, they are building academic buildings/housing in that part of campus, you know, for the betterment of the University. This supersedes your ability to park your car where you want for a football game.

 

[rrlbees]

You and JeremyCuse need to take a field trip to South Campus/SkyTop area. The Fine Lot is not the only place on campus to park your vehicle. And again, for the 50th time, they are building academic buildings/housing in that part of campus, you know, for the betterment of the University. This supersedes your ability to park your car where you want for a football game.

Cherry picking.

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[orangecuse]

Sir, with all due respect, you are brighter than to have to ask that question. Private schools are smaller, almost without exception. Smaller schools means a smaller alumni base. A smaller alumni base means smaller numbers of emotionally invested fans. Smaller numbers of emotionally invested fans means less attendance. Simple. Another qualifier is the fact that alumni of state schools tend to be from that state and often stay in that state. Private schools draw from a much wider area and the alumni have no attachment for the area after graduation. I have no stats on this but I would give odds the difference is very substantial.

Very valid points relative to the Private school challenges. Here's the thing though, Syracuse University takes the name of the city it is in. Duke is in Durham, Vanderbilt is in Nashville, NW is in Chicago, etc., etc. So, when Syracuse NY is mentioned in any capacity, it innately is linked with the University. Syracuse and its metropolitan area clearly has the population and disposable income to fill the relatively small dome to capacity.

As bad as it sounded when Jake said it's the only game in town...there's a lot of validity to that. Syracuse is not competing with other schools and its fans in its own city. There's no Tennessee (Vandy) no UNC/NCState (Duke) no Fighting Illini, Notre Dame (NW) etc. The current disconnect with the general consensus there is the consistent losing. The sooner that is fixed, the sooner the dome gets packed again.