Leo Rautins thinks the college game has deteriorated.

[Jeremy L.]

Use the college baseball rule, pro right out of HS, or three years of college

Yeah I wasn't sure if baseball had two or three years but do exactly what they do.

 

[Jeremy L.]

I think just about everyone agrees that college basketball is poor quality and that the OAD rule is pretty terrible (for college). I'd prefer to keep kids who don't want to be in college out of college. So get rid of the rule, and institute a 2-3 year mandatory stay for kids who go to school. If going to Syracuse means a multi-year commitment, then the Malis of the world might think long and hard what's best for their professional basketball career.

Which isn't the end of the world. We end up loving the four year guys so much more in the end anyway (Fair, Triche, Rautins, Silent G, etc.)

 

[FrancoPizza]

Let them enter the NBA draft without NCAA penalty. After that, they are indentured for 2 years.

I'm afraid this will lead to a mass exodus of players to the D-league -- players would declare for the draft even if they know they have a slim-to-none shot at being drafted. For the top 10-15 kids in a class, the jump to the NBA makes sense at most levels. It's the next group that faces some difficult decisions... and many of those kids based on their family situation may prefer to start earning a measly living in the D-league just to avoid the charade of attending classes and trying to flirt with ineligibility for 2 years. But in spite of that possibility, this would do wonders for the college game. Teams would field rosters of athletes that actually have an interest in college life who can also tolerate the academic "burden". They would hopefully view the school as more than just an internship for the NBA.

On a related note, why can't universities create a new major for athletes who take the 2-year plunge and aspire to a professional career? Call it the "professional athletics career track" or something where they take courses on financial planning and learning about the major lifestyle changes that may await them.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Obviously, that makes a lot of sense--and it is the system that is already in place / working for baseball.

My question for the board lawyers is: would that somehow violate Spencer Haywood v. NBA, in terms of sports law?

I don't think that was a collectively bargained rule, just the NBA's rule.

 

[Dave85]

I'm afraid this will lead to a mass exodus of players to the D-league -- players would declare for the draft even if they know they have a slim-to-none shot at being drafted. For the top 10-15 kids in a class, the jump to the NBA makes sense at most levels. It's the next group that faces some difficult decisions... and many of those kids based on their family situation may prefer to start earning a measly living in the D-league just to avoid the charade of attending classes and trying to flirt with ineligibility for 2 years. But in spite of that possibility, this would do wonders for the college game. Teams would field rosters of athletes that actually have an interest in college life who can also tolerate the academic "burden". They would hopefully view the school as more than just an internship for the NBA.

I agree but there seems to be very little openness to compromise on the NBA side of the argument. If you bring it up all you labeled a childish complainer.

I'd rather be a fan of players who want to be in college. Besides, college is not for everyone.

 

[Dave85]

Obviously, that makes a lot of sense--and it is the system that is already in place / working for baseball.

My question for the board lawyers is: would that somehow violate Spencer Haywood v. NBA, in terms of sports law?

Wow, that's just and awful ruling:

Haywood v. National Basketball Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"If Haywood is unable to continue to play professional basketball for Seattle, he will suffer irreparable injury in that a substantial part of his playing career will have been dissipated, his physical condition, skills, and coordination will deteriorate from lack of high-level competition, his public acceptance as a super star will diminish to the detriment of his career, his self-esteem, and his pride will have been injured and a great injustice will be perpetrated on him."

 

[FrancoPizza]

Wow, that's just and awful ruling:

Haywood v. National Basketball Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"If Haywood is unable to continue to play professional basketball for Seattle, he will suffer irreparable injury in that a substantial part of his playing career will have been dissipated, his physical condition, skills, and coordination will deteriorate from lack of high-level competition, his public acceptance as a super star will diminish to the detriment of his career, his self-esteem, and his pride will have been injured and a great injustice will be perpetrated on him."

Wow, if I ever get canned or demoted, can I file an appeal on the grounds that I feel sad?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

i don't think the college game has deteriorated. i think the NBA has gotten incredibly advanced with strategies, practice, knowing where guys flourish. it looks like choreography now. college resources and practice times can't compare and it looks worse in comparison

I think there's a lot of truth to this, however, I do think that the college game has deteriorated due to the amount of physicality the officiating permits.

 

[NorSyr66]

So we will not get the top 20 players playing in CBB every year. But having the 21 through 100 play for 2 years would be a HUGE improvement over what we have now.

I think the problem is the people in positions of power capable of changing the status quo simply do not care about the quality CBB one way or the other.

I totally agree with yours and Docsu's line of thought. Especially "keep the kids out of college that don't want to be in college". It has me wondering if this change would impact the players we end up recruiting and end up have playing at Syracuse. But with all schools keeping "top players" for at least two years, the turnover would be less at each school. Possibly it would force student athletes to spend a bit more time selecting a school with academics as a factor on top of basketball program. It would also require student athletes to apply themselves to academics or they might not be eligible to play in year 2 (unless at UNC).

 

[pfister1]

The NCAA could take the first step by changing the rule that requires a player to give up his eligibility upon entering the draft. This is the part that is entirely within the NCAA's control. Let kids go to the draft, get drafted and not sign a contract and return. The other pieces require the NBA to act in college basketball's interest and they really have very little reason to do so.

The other part which is much harder is to weed out and avoid the kids that have no interest in playing 4 years in college. The kids that are only there because it is currently a required one year stop, and best path on the way to their pro career.

If you focused college basketball back on student athletes and forced the top level players that really have no interest in an education to go pro, there would be a period of drop off, but I think the game would quickly recover. I would prefer to see a sport of four year players where I can actually get to know who the guys on the other teams are, than a sport where the teams are constantly revolving pieces with very little continuity.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Wow, that's just and awful ruling:

Haywood v. National Basketball Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"If Haywood is unable to continue to play professional basketball for Seattle, he will suffer irreparable injury in that a substantial part of his playing career will have been dissipated, his physical condition, skills, and coordination will deteriorate from lack of high-level competition, his public acceptance as a super star will diminish to the detriment of his career, his self-esteem, and his pride will have been injured and a great injustice will be perpetrated on him."

Actually, the ruling is appropriate.
The Supreme Court was siding with the lower court decision that overturned an NBA by-law restricting the labor pool.
It essentially was a one-sided restraint imposed by owners.
BUT...collective bargaining permits the parties to circumvent antitrust law.
So today's restrictions would fly.

And two observations regarding this thread:

No real talk of why colleges should be recruiting one-and-dones in the first place if they really seek to have an educational mission.
And perhaps the issue is rightly ignored.
The college "game" is really a "business" now...there's just WAY too much money involved and no way to close the barn door.
So, the reluctant conclusion is it's time to start compensating the "unhired"(1) help.

Also, Leo Rautins may have been the best all-around player SU ever had.
He could do everything.
Only Billy Owens rivaled his complete skills.
His is an opinion to be respected.

Footnote (1): the term "unhired" to describe college basketball players does not apply to Kentucky or any place John Calipari coaches.

 

[RandygoCuse]

So if the two-year rule is enacted, how is it enforced? Does it just mean that a player cannot jump to the NBA or that he must actually remain in college. I can't see how having him remain in school is practical or possible.

 

[Briancuse]

I think just about everyone agrees that college basketball is poor quality and that the OAD rule is pretty terrible (for college). I'd prefer to keep kids who don't want to be in college out of college. So get rid of the rule, and institute a 2-3 year mandatory stay for kids who go to school. If going to Syracuse means a multi-year commitment, then the Malis of the world might think long and hard what's best for their professional basketball career.

Malachi coming out of hs wouldn't have even been on the nba radar. He was the 25th ranked prospect in his class.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Malachi coming out of hs wouldn't have even been on the nba radar. He was the 25th ranked prospect in his class.

What I'm saying is that if he had to stay in school for more than a year maybe he looks to go elsewhere, whether it's Europe for a year or D league/NBA.

 

[Hoo's That]

So if the two-year rule is enacted, how is it enforced? Does it just mean that a player cannot jump to the NBA or that he must actually remain in college. I can't see how having him remain in school is practical or possible.

This or any rule would be part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NBA Players Association and the owners. What the rule would do is prevent an NBA team from drafting or signing as a free agent any player who is less than X years out of high school, just like the NFL has the rule that you can't enter the draft until 3 years after your high school graduation. The NFL has a stronger case to use against challenges by arguing its rule is needed for player safety. There is nothing which would prevent a player from going from high school to a foreign professional league. The Collective Bargaining Agreement would have to specify whether a team could sign someone after completing 1 year in a foreign league.

 

[djcon57]

Use the college baseball rule, pro right out of HS, or three years of college

Sounds great! How do you recommend having the NBAPA sign off?

 

[Hoo's That]

The NCAA could take the first step by changing the rule that requires a player to give up his eligibility upon entering the draft. This is the part that is entirely within the NCAA's control. Let kids go to the draft, get drafted and not sign a contract and return. The other pieces require the NBA to act in college basketball's interest and they really have very little reason to do so.

The other part which is much harder is to weed out and avoid the kids that have no interest in playing 4 years in college. The kids that are only there because it is currently a required one year stop, and best path on the way to their pro career.

If you focused college basketball back on student athletes and forced the top level players that really have no interest in an education to go pro, there would be a period of drop off, but I think the game would quickly recover. I would prefer to see a sport of four year players where I can actually get to know who the guys on the other teams are, than a sport where the teams are constantly revolving pieces with very little continuity.

The primary way the players lose their eligibility is by signing with an agent. That zaps you in any NCAA sport, not just basketball. I think both the colleges and NBA want to keep the "withdraw your name" date regardless of whether anyone signs with an agent because the colleges want you to make your decision so they can plan for what to do next year in regard to managing scholarships and the NBA wants the date because they don't want the exact situation you mentioned, drafting someone and have them go back to school, thereby wasting their pick.

 

[Cheriehoop]

This or any rule would be part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NBA Players Association and the owners. What the rule would do is prevent an NBA team from drafting or signing as a free agent any player who is less than X years out of high school, just like the NFL has the rule that you can't enter the draft until 3 years after your high school graduation. The NFL has a stronger case to use against challenges by arguing its rule is needed for player safety. There is nothing which would prevent a player from going from high school to a foreign professional league. The Collective Bargaining Agreement would have to specify whether a team could sign someone after completing 1 year in a foreign league.

I'm always surprised how the Player's Union goes more to bat for new young unknown future members that could be drafted than the majority of NBA dues paying players sitting on the bench or stashed in the D League dying for a chance to play in the NBA. Just seems counter intuitive to me that they would want to make it easier for one's replacements to enter the NBA early.

 

[Hoo's That]

I'm always surprised how the Player's Union goes more to bat for new young unknown future members that could be drafted in the future than the majority of NBA dues paying players sitting on the bench or stashed in the D League dying for a chance to play in the NBA. Just seems counter intuitive.

You're not the first one to mention that concept and I doubt whether you'll be the last.

 

[djcon57]

The NBAPA views it as limiting the earning opportunities for potential members.
They'd prefer the out of HS rule, NBA wanted 2 years...so we got the 1 and done

 

[Briancuse]

What I'm saying is that if he had to stay in school for more than a year maybe he looks to go elsewhere, whether it's Europe for a year or D league/NBA.

Maybe, Europe and the D-league aren't for everyone, some players actually enjoy college.

 

[OrangeDW]

Let the kids go straight out of high school (if they want to skip college/believe they're good enough) or force the kids to stay at least two years in college.

How do you "force" someone to stay in college? It's not prison.

 

[Briancuse]

How do you "force" someone to stay in college? It's not prison.

The Nfl does it, its not holding someone hostage. Its a privilege to play pro sports not a right. If a league wants a kid to stay in school for two or three years its their right.

 

[OrangeDW]

The Nfl does it, its not holding someone hostage. Its a privilege to play pro sports not a right. If a league wants a kid to stay in school for two or three years its their right.

And if the kid wants(or needs to) to get paid badly enough he'll just play pro ball somewhere else until he's eligible to go to the NBA.

The concept of "forcing" someone to stay in college is laughable.

 

[Cheriehoop]

The NBAPA views it as limiting the earning opportunities for potential members.
They'd prefer the out of HS rule, NBA wanted 2 years...so we got the 1 and done

It has to be the only job where current employees want to lower requirements to allow more competitors with less experience to vie for their jobs. The "limiting earning opportunities for potential members" is a common denominator for almost every position having any minimum requirement whether it's a certain level of prior work experience, schooling, licensing, minimum age etc- which is most jobs. One would think that in most cases, lowering standards is the result of a shortage of current skilled workers or the position itself losing value or usefulness - that's why I find it rather a strange position for the union players themselves but a huge positive for NBA owners.,