Lester's offense | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Lester's offense

Chip said:
The real question to me is whether or not Lester is his choice because he isn't given the budget for anyone else. If that's the case, then yes, go with someone you know and trust.

But if it were me, and I just had to admit that my first OC was a mistake, I'd be telling the school that I need at least $750k per year (or insert required price point) for a top shelf, experienced OC. No matter who I liked and trusted, there's no way I'd go with another guy lacking significant P5 experience (even as a position coach) unless the budget given made it my only choice.

It's an insane risk and I feel like it's setup to fail. I really do hope I'm wrong though.

And yes, I know I'm a broken record on this topic.
Expand...

I think it's probably some budget - but mostly comfortableness and trust. I don't think it's setup to fail - just set up to have a lower chance of success %-wise.
 
Finwad32 said:
This is my thing, I think it's pretty well established who is for and against this move on the board... For all legitimate reasons. But, the way I see it, the decision's been made and none of us can change that... What's the point of continually picking it apart for whatever reason... It is what it is, might as well enjoy the ride, otherwise you're torturing yourself.
Expand...

Maybe you've established that, I don't know. I haven't established anything yet. I have no idea what the product on the field will look like. Is there something wrong questioning his 18-17 record? He had one great season, not to take that away from him but lots of coaches have one great season. Had he been there over a 10 year period of time it would be more fair to say positively or negatively what type of offense he is "capable" of producing. I don't think we know yet, good or bad.

So you can lump me in with all the negative people if you want just because I'm not falling all over myself proclaiming improvement. Since the end of the PP era we hear the, "offense is improved, bigger/faster/stronger, play to our strengths, we have players now to fit the system" (although we could see during Grob the bigger/faster/stronger was an obvious "puff" piece).

So pardon me if I bring some questions to the topic. It's amazing with how last season went that people are so sensitive to questioning what direction we are headed.
 
qdawgg said:
Maybe you've established that, I don't know. I haven't established anything yet. I have no idea what the product on the field will look like. Is there something wrong questioning his 18-17 record? He had one great season, not to take that away from him but lots of coaches have one great season. Had he been there over a 10 year period of time it would be more fair to say positively or negatively what type of offense he is "capable" of producing. I don't think we know yet, good or bad.

So you can lump me in with all the negative people if you want just because I'm not falling all over myself proclaiming improvement. Since the end of the PP era we hear the, "offense is improved, bigger/faster/stronger, play to our strengths, we have players now to fit the system" (although we could see during Grob the bigger/faster/stronger was an obvious "puff" piece).

So pardon me if I bring some questions to the topic. It's amazing with how last season went that people are so sensitive to questioning what direction we are headed.
Expand...

1st paragraph, more than fair. Completely understandable. 2nd paragraph, I didn't proclaim any improvement, just that I thought there were two sides to the story, and, wanted to bring that to the table.
 
anomander said:
McDonald/Adam mainly, but McDonald rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.
Expand...

I had heard McDonald/Smith and Smith may not have been back if McDonald was.
 
Finwad32 said:
1st paragraph, more than fair. Completely understandable. 2nd paragraph, I didn't proclaim any improvement, just that I thought there were two sides to the story, and, wanted to bring that to the table.
Expand...

That's fair and I don't disagree. My comment obviously had a negative tone to and that's just mostly because I'm an @sshole and not because I think next year is all doom and gloom. I've always always said that I thought we had talent and I think we still do. It's the coaching that needs to make huge improvements IMO.
 
Chip said:
The real question to me is whether or not Lester is his choice because he isn't given the budget for anyone else. If that's the case, then yes, go with someone you know and trust.

But if it were me, and I just had to admit that my first OC was a mistake, I'd be telling the school that I need at least $750k per year (or insert required price point) for a top shelf, experienced OC. No matter who I liked and trusted, there's no way I'd go with another guy lacking significant P5 experience (even as a position coach) unless the budget given made it my only choice.

It's an insane risk and I feel like it's setup to fail. I really do hope I'm wrong though.

And yes, I know I'm a broken record on this topic.
Expand...

I couldn't agree more and I don't even know that you sound like a broken record b/c I haven't read your opinion on this before. If you ask me, the three most important spots on a staff are OC, DC and OL coach. I guess our DC is alright (not entirely sold) but it is strange to have gone with a guy who had absolutely no experience on the OL last year (Adam) and then come back and hand the keys in a make or break year to a guy with an extremely thin resume relative to other P5 coordinators.

Does this mean it's wrong? No, I suppose not. Is it Shafer's fault? NO, probably the administration is pinching pennies like they've done since the dawn of time.

But how anyone isn't at least a bit skeptical and concerned is beyond me.
 
kcsu said:
He was a thin skinned arrogant ass
Expand...

But, to be fair, and I"m not really kidding here, doesn't that make him a perfect big time football coach?
 
TheCusian said:
We've danced this dance before. Shafer won't hire guys he can't trust. So it's a combination of trust and ability.

His offense was in the top 20% and Shafer knows and trusts him.
Expand...

I get why people get frustrated with Millhouse but lines like the bolded above are hard to take if you have even the slightest bit of skepticism in you. I mean, Shafer hires like everyone else -- guys he hopes will be good coaches. Right? I mean otherwise he would have 'trusted' GM all year. And kept Adam in charge of the entire OL.

It's nice in theory but you need to get good coaches -- I'm not 100% sure where trust comes in.
 
Finwad32 said:
This is my thing, I think it's pretty well established who is for and against this move on the board... For all legitimate reasons. But, the way I see it, the decision's been made and none of us can change that... What's the point of continually picking it apart for whatever reason... It is what it is, might as well enjoy the ride, otherwise you're torturing yourself.
Expand...

i don't disagree with this and I haven't been following everyone's posting habits all that closely, but I think it's OK to be disappointed -- as a fan -- with a hire. I also think there's plenty of struggles in the past 20 years to justify being a bit cynical. Plus, I think this whole situation lends itself to a particularly interesting discussion at some point which is this: Just how committed is this university to playing with the big boys? Not trying to hijack and we don't need to delve into it.

I agree with the general premise that you might as well be optimistic in the off-season b/c who the hell knows what's going to happen in the fall? But I also agree that it's tough to find too much to rally around with this program at this particular point in time.
 
billsin01 said:
I couldn't agree more and I don't even know that you sound like a broken record b/c I haven't read your opinion on this before. If you ask me, the three most important spots on a staff are OC, DC and OL coach. I guess our DC is alright (not entirely sold) but it is strange to have gone with a guy who had absolutely no experience on the OL last year (Adam) and then come back and hand the keys in a make or break year to a guy with an extremely thin resume relative to other P5 coordinators.

Does this mean it's wrong? No, I suppose not. Is it Shafer's fault? NO, probably the administration is pinching pennies like they've done since the dawn of time.

But how anyone isn't at least a bit skeptical and concerned is beyond me.
Expand...
We went over this a ton last year. Adam coached OLine at Grand Valley State. I asked him personally.
 
billsin01 said:
I get why people get frustrated with Millhouse but lines like the bolded above are hard to take if you have even the slightest bit of skepticism in you. I mean, Shafer hires like everyone else -- guys he hopes will be good coaches. Right? I mean otherwise he would have 'trusted' GM all year. And kept Adam in charge of the entire OL. It's nice in theory but you need to get good coaches -- I'm not 100% sure where trust comes in.
Expand...

Simple. He trusted McDonald as a friend and knew he was a great recruiter. Decided to take a chance and it didn't work out.

You can trust a persons character and believe you're hiring a great coach only to be wrong later. Just as much as if you're hiring a guy you've never met. Shafer prefers to know and trust the person first. I don't have an issue with that.
 
billsin01 said:
i don't disagree with this and I haven't been following everyone's posting habits all that closely, but I think it's OK to be disappointed -- as a fan -- with a hire. I also think there's plenty of struggles in the past 20 years to justify being a bit cynical. Plus, I think this whole situation lends itself to a particularly interesting discussion at some point which is this: Just how committed is this university to playing with the big boys? Not trying to hijack and we don't need to delve into it. I agree with the general premise that you might as well be optimistic in the off-season b/c who the hell knows what's going to happen in the fall? But I also agree that it's tough to find too much to rally around with this program at this particular point in time.
Expand...

Being "a bit cynical" is justified and reasonable. Being overly negative, sarcastic, and hopeless is something different entirely (not saying you have been). This thread started by saying that there could be some good things coming offensively - based on Money and Finwads opinions (which I value). That's all.
 
Reading this board makes me think we are all starved & frustrating with the lack of real news about the football program...long winter.

IMO Shafer is no different than any other coach, you hire the best resources you can that you are familiar with, you trust, and can fit into your budget. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. He strikes me as a guy who wants to succeed and I'm sure he works just as hard if not harder than folks on this board.

Gooornge!
 
billsin01 said:
I couldn't agree more and I don't even know that you sound like a broken record b/c I haven't read your opinion on this before. If you ask me, the three most important spots on a staff are OC, DC and OL coach. I guess our DC is alright (not entirely sold) but it is strange to have gone with a guy who had absolutely no experience on the OL last year (Adam) and then come back and hand the keys in a make or break year to a guy with an extremely thin resume relative to other P5 coordinators.

Does this mean it's wrong? No, I suppose not. Is it Shafer's fault? NO, probably the administration is pinching pennies like they've done since the dawn of time.

But how anyone isn't at least a bit skeptical and concerned is beyond me.
Expand...
I am definitely skeptical and I would think everyone feels the same way about the uncertainty during a make or break year. I was hoping he could convince Cubit to leave Illinois. Shaf and Cubit have a relationship and he could have got him for a reasonable amount. Now that's not going to happen so we have to be supportive as we can with the guy he picked.
 
money3189 said:
I watched some games from the 2013 season along with the Texas Bowl. Then I watched the Villanova game. I cant believe all of the changes McDonald made to the offense. It was completely different. I like McDonald as a person and recruiter but he really struggle as a coor. Dont know what he saw in the off season that convince him he could take out the productive elements of the 2013 offense.
Expand...

Money - he kept visiting these pro teams and consulting with other coaches to gain perspective on how to run an offense. Then make changes based on those. Its kind of like the business leader that reads a book then makes decisions on the business based on the book. Never works.
 
CuseLegacy said:
You and Ano are both right.
Expand...

So basically he had a problem with the entire offensive staff. Because I also heard that Lester was reluctant to help out last season with co-coordination due to how difficult it was at the end of 13 then only to have the offense change dramatically in 14.
 
Gooorange said:
Reading this board makes me think we are all starved & frustrating with the lack of real news about the football program...long winter.

IMO Shafer is no different than any other coach, you hire the best resources you can that you are familiar with, you trust, and can fit into your budget. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. He strikes me as a guy who wants to succeed and I'm sure he works just as hard if not harder than folks on this board.

Gooornge!
Expand...
he's like most coaches but not all of them are like that

some defensive coaches to think about

i'm not sure that gary patterson had much long standing trust for the air raid guys he hired.

stoops always had hired guns. he went for a guy he trusted (his old qb) after they all left and they had their worst offense in years, had to let him go.

saban hired the least trustworthy guy in america
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

SWC75
    • Like
Why Syracuse will win
Replies
0
Views
366
SWC75
SWC75
SWC75
    • Like
Why Syracuse will win
Replies
0
Views
601
SWC75
SWC75
SWC75
    • Like
Why UNLV will win
Replies
0
Views
836
SWC75
SWC75
U
    • Like
The new Nixon offense
Replies
0
Views
412
upperdeck
U
SWC75
    • Like
My 2024 SU Football Preview: September
Replies
0
Views
397
SWC75
SWC75

Forum statistics

Threads
170,394
Messages
4,889,421
Members
5,996
Latest member
meierscreek

Share this page

Online statistics

Members online
343
Guests online
1,747
Total visitors
2,090
Totals may include hidden visitors.


...
Top Bottom