Let the hot seat talk begin

[Moontan]

Just win against "decent" competition, while hopefully playing an entertaining game, and people will come back.

The "missing 20k" fans want to see an event. An event needs to be fun. A fun sporting event is usually associated with a victory.
If it's a "fun event", they'll find ways to adjust their schedule and leave the lawn mowing for another day.

The definition of what a "fun event" is, is simply different in different parts of the country. In many parts of the country, the mere fact that there's a football game constitutes a "fun event". In CNY there's a higher threshold associated with a football game to make it a "fun event".

 

[CuseLegacy]

And what's all that close to Syracuse, NY thats attracting so much attention that SU sports takes a back seat. The Buffalo Bill 150 miles away? Doesn't appear that way during the winter when the Dome pulls in 30,000+.

This difference isn't rooted in availability of other sports alternatives. This is cultural. This is history.

Football in the South is a huge deal in a way it could never be in the East. And these people get the NFL on TV and they watch it.

I apologize, I wasn't clear. I'm not just talking pro sports but competition from other colleges/universities. In Arkansas for the vast majority of the population who attend college it is in the University of Arkansas system of schools whether it is Fayetteville of Little Rock, etc. Also most of their recruiting is in state.

In regards to Syracuse I don't think that the majority of the population of CNY attended SU. I think that is part of the attendance dilemna that unless you attended the University, have connections to the school or are just a rabid college football fan you are not going to go to the games.

 

[Townie72]

I apologize, I wasn't clear. I'm not just talking pro sports but competition from other colleges/universities. In Arkansas for the vast majority of the population who attend college it is in the University of Arkansas system of schools whether it is Fayetteville of Little Rock, etc. Also most of their recruiting is in state.

In regards to Syracuse I don't think that the majority of the population of CNY attended SU. I think that is part of the attendance dilemna that unless you attended the University, have connections to the school or are just a rabid college football fan you are not going to go to the games.

That's a very good point and absolutely true.

When I attended SU --- and even since then --- I have come to understand that SU football rides on the shoulders of the local sports fans in CNY. Not the alumni, who now live in Boston or NYC or Phila or DC. It's the townies that make the thing go. They buy the tickets and the beers and the parking and the SU spirit merchandise. It's remarkable. Some of the most vehement boosters on this forum never attended a class at SU and couldn't find Slocum Hall with a map on campus.

For these people, SU is their local pro team.

The generation that grew up rooting for Floyd Little is just about all dead or moved to the sunny South. I attended a game a few years ago at the Dome and was shocked at the number of people using walkers to get around.

So the appeal has to be to the non-aligned fan, as you suggest. And there's all sorts of pressure on this goup. Central NY is losing population, not gaining it. There isn't as much money in people's pockets as there once was, especially with the disappearance of all the factory jobs.

You are lookjng at the same picture Gross and Cantor see and its one of the reasons the marquis games are increasingly going to be played in the NYC area. They are going where the alumni are and where the money is.

 

[CuseLegacy]

That's a very good point and absolutely true.

When I attended SU --- and even since then --- I have come to understand that SU football rides on the shoulders of the local sports fans in CNY. Not the alumni, who now live in Boston or NYC or Phila or DC. It's the townies that make the thing go. They buy the tickets and the beers and the parking and the SU spirit merchandise. It's remarkable. Some of the most vehement boosters on this forum never attended a class at SU and couldn't find Slocum Hall with a map on campus.

For these people, SU is their local pro team.

The generation that grew up rooting for Floyd Little is just about all dead or moved to the sunny South. I attended a game a few years ago at the Dome and was shocked at the number of people using walkers to get around.

So the appeal has to be to the non-aligned fan, as you suggest. And there's all sorts of pressure on this goup. Central NY is losing population, not gaining it. There isn't as much money in people's pockets as there once was, especially with the disappearance of all the factory jobs.

You are lookjng at the same picture Gross and Cantor see and its one of the reasons the marquis games are increasingly going to be played in the NYC area. They are going where the alumni are and where the money is.

I agree. Unfortunately I see this plan of Gross and Cantor as a double edged sword.
They might gain more attendance and revenue by moving more games to NYC but at the risk of alienating the CNY supporters and seeing a further decline in attendance. Perhaps the best move that SU made is joining the ACC where the team will gain more exposure to those alums who have settled in the sunny south. Myself included.

 

[Orangeyes]

That's a very good point and absolutely true.



For these people, SU is their local pro team.

The generation that grew up rooting for Floyd Little is just about all dead or moved to the sunny South. I attended a game a few years ago at the Dome and was shocked at the number of people using walkers to get around.
.

Sorry but this made me laugh out loud and notice how I didn't use the Internet shortcut? Also I say Orangemen, not Orange? I rooted for Floyd, but I also rooted for Ernie and before that Jim Brown. I'm still alive, here in Syracuse and kicking and if you don't believe me just try bending over in front of me sometime there Sonny Boy.

 

[rrlbees]

You are lookjng at the same picture Gross and Cantor see and its one of the reasons the marquis games are increasingly going to be played in the NYC area. They are going where the alumni are and where the money is.

I can't think of one school that has survived or tried to survive without local support. If SU does not find a way to attract and gain the support of the local community (to a stronger degree), the program will be a massive failure.

 

[xc84]

I agree. Unfortunately I see this plan of Gross and Cantor as a double edged sword.
They might gain more attendance and revenue by moving more games to NYC but at the risk of alienating the CNY supporters and seeing a further decline in attendance. Perhaps the best move that SU made is joining the ACC where the team will gain more exposure to those alums who have settled in the sunny south. Myself included.

Hey...I am probably wrong but I see the NYC stuff as a way to generate more interest from alumni. I don't think the goal is to get more people to go to games in NYC...it's to get more fans period. More fans will translate to more excitement and more fans at the dome. Right now, alumni are not the major force in terms of fanbase that they should be. The marketing to NYC is hoped to change that.

 

[Townie72]

I can't think of one school that has survived or tried to survive without local support. If SU does not find a way to attract and gain the support of the local community (to a stronger degree), the program will be a massive failure.

Thats long term thinking ... these guys want to pick up the short term cash.

There was a blurb a while back about SU alumni giving and where it came from. The average amount donated by the NYC area alums was twice what the others area averaged. The next thing I read is that SU is planning to play some football games in the NY Metro area. Do you think the two things are connected some how?

I stick with what I said. I think the SU people --- with a lot of data and experience --- have surmised that there's not a lot they can do to attract more of the locals. So they are "re-engineering" how they approach the market by redefining it to include major metro areas where alumni live.

By restricting the supply of games at the Dome, they might think they can get the same overall number of seats sold. Right now the market will not absorb 7 games x 50,000 seats. Maybe the good people of CNY will pony up for more seats to individual games if there are only 4 or 5 games played there.

 

[Townie72]

Sorry but this made me laugh out loud and notice how I didn't use the Internet shortcut? Also I say Orangemen, not Orange? I rooted for Floyd, but I also rooted for Ernie and before that Jim Brown. I'm still alive, here in Syracuse and kicking and if you don't believe me just try bending over in front of me sometime there Sonny Boy.

Watch where you put that cane, old timer. I have "Exit Only" tatooed back there.

 

[Fjoinkay]

I think SU needs to work on aligning itself with the locals in CNY. Not sure of how to best do that, but I'm sure the job can be improved upon. Of course, winning is the best tool.

I do like the idea of playing games in NYC. The alumni in the city is strong. Perhaps a few good games in NYC will inspire more alumni to make the trip up from the city to CNY.

I'm also curious because NYC has a large number of college football fans who are starved for the real thing. I'm sure a few thousand college football fans will show up just to watch a live game.

 

[All4SU]

Let the hot seat talk end...please.

 

[Townie72]

I think SU needs to work on aligning itself with the locals in CNY. Not sure of how to best do that, but I'm sure the job can be improved upon. Of course, winning is the best tool.

I do like the idea of playing games in NYC. The alumni in the city is strong. Perhaps a few good games in NYC will inspire more alumni to make the trip up from the city to CNY.

I'm also curious because NYC has a large number of college football fans who are starved for the real thing. I'm sure a few thousand college football fans will show up just to watch a live game.

Lets assume that the Athletic Department has seriously been trying to drum up demand for decades. And using all the techniques and programs and ideas that are typically used that the results just don't seem to get any better.

It's not that they haven't ever heard of Marketing.

Putting butts in seats is a problem colleges face all over the country. SU isn't alone in this. And no one seems to have the code cracked except those programs who sell out because of who they are, who the fan base is, etc.

If you can figure out how to fill these seats, then bottle the idea and hit the road selling it, because you can make a ton of money.

If you want to grow revenue, then how do you do it?

 

[tipphill]

I apologize, I wasn't clear. I'm not just talking pro sports but competition from other colleges/universities. In Arkansas for the vast majority of the population who attend college it is in the University of Arkansas system of schools whether it is Fayetteville of Little Rock, etc. Also most of their recruiting is in state.

In regards to Syracuse I don't think that the majority of the population of CNY attended SU. I think that is part of the attendance dilemna that unless you attended the University, have connections to the school or are just a rabid college football fan you are not going to go to the games.

its called home town pride and upstate is notoriously negative---but su had never tried to be a part of the community until recently---most townies ,myself included could not afford to go there.

 

[tipphill]

That's a very good point and absolutely true.

When I attended SU --- and even since then --- I have come to understand that SU football rides on the shoulders of the local sports fans in CNY. Not the alumni, who now live in Boston or NYC or Phila or DC. It's the townies that make the thing go. They buy the tickets and the beers and the parking and the SU spirit merchandise. It's remarkable. Some of the most vehement boosters on this forum never attended a class at SU and couldn't find Slocum Hall with a map on campus.

For these people, SU is their local pro team.

The generation that grew up rooting for Floyd Little is just about all dead or moved to the sunny South. I attended a game a few years ago at the Dome and was shocked at the number of people using walkers to get around.

So the appeal has to be to the non-aligned fan, as you suggest. And there's all sorts of pressure on this goup. Central NY is losing population, not gaining it. There isn't as much money in people's pockets as there once was, especially with the disappearance of all the factory jobs.

You are lookjng at the same picture Gross and Cantor see and its one of the reasons the marquis games are increasingly going to be played in the NYC area. They are going where the alumni are and where the money is.

i beg your pardon, i am fully ambulatory w/o assistance,still shovel snow(in pa.)am not yet incontinent, and travel to games---it is the townies that support the team at the gate --the alums donate

 

[Fjoinkay]

Lets assume that the Athletic Department has seriously been trying to drum up demand for decades. And using all the techniques and programs and ideas that are typically used that the results just don't seem to get any better.

It's not that they haven't ever heard of Marketing.

Putting butts in seats is a problem colleges face all over the country. SU isn't alone in this. And no one seems to have the code cracked except those programs who sell out because of who they are, who the fan base is, etc.

If you can figure out how to fill these seats, then bottle the idea and hit the road selling it, because you can make a ton of money.

If you want to grow revenue, then how do you do it?

Fair points. Marketing is not my game, and that's why I said I'm not sure about how to improve the relationship with the community. I do believe SU could do a better job. I think some other people on here are much more qualified to comment on that. But saying SU could do a better job isn't meant as much of a criticism either. And like I said winning solves a lot of problems.

 

[rrlbees]

Let the hot seat talk end...please.

i agree with that because he isn't on the hot seat. i think people here set real low expectations so that they can claim he didn't fail, but i think it is far from the hot seat as far as su is concerned. i said this before and i'll say it again, if things got bad, he would leave on his own due to his allegiance to su before su would ask him to step down. he wants to win more than the fans do.

 

[Scooch]

i agree with that because he isn't on the hot seat. i think people here set real low expectations so that they can claim he didn't fail, but i think it is far from the hot seat as far as su is concerned. i said this before and i'll say it again, if things got bad, he would leave on his own due to his allegiance to su before su would ask him to step down. he wants to win more than the fans do.

I can't say I like that mindset. I mean if he posted back to back 2-10 years I'd hope his mindset would be to think "next year is when we make it happen!", not "boy have I failed, sorry SU, here's your job back.

 

[orangenirvana]

i agree with that because he isn't on the hot seat. i think people here set real low expectations so that they can claim he didn't fail, but i think it is far from the hot seat as far as su is concerned. i said this before and i'll say it again, if things got bad, he would leave on his own due to his allegiance to su before su would ask him to step down. he wants to win more than the fans do.

What I don't get is why SU hasn't extended his contract yet. There would be no hot seat talk at all right now if Gross had given him an extension either last year or the year before. Marrone is just one year away from being a lame duck. Why would they want to wait until the last second?

 

[lvilleorange]

What I don't get is why SU hasn't extended his contract yet. There would be no hot seat talk at all right now if Gross had given him an extension either last year or the year before. Marrone is just one year away from being a lame duck. Why would they want to wait until the last second?

Exactly. Last year Louisville got off to a floundering start, lost to FIU and looked lost offensively. What did their leadership do? They promptly re-upped Strong and look how the team responded. Syracuse would have been wise to do the very same thing. In fact had they done that in the midst of the 5 game losing streak, it may have been able to salvage one of those games.

 

[kingottoiii]

What I don't get is why SU hasn't extended his contract yet. There would be no hot seat talk at all right now if Gross had given him an extension either last year or the year before. Marrone is just one year away from being a lame duck. Why would they want to wait until the last second?

Agreed. He should have been given a 2 year extension during the Spring with a soft buy out. IMO 2012 will be a rebuilding year and 2013 will be Marrone's best shot to make noise. Why have him go into that season with no job security? If he fails in 2013 then buy him out of the 2 year extension. If he is successful then add more years to that contract and add in a fair buyout.