Lets be clear here, Marrone coached 50 games here

[IthacaBarrel]

And his offense sucked for about 38-40 of those games, my point here is not to pile on Doug. I certainly wanted him to stay and I am one that has not much issue with anything that he has done, remember before the hot finish people were dropping names of replacements for both he and Hackett. Coaching is strike while the iron is hot because it's sink or swim. I thought Doug was nothing short of horrendous the last 5-6 games of 2011. I think the job became too much for him the final part of last year but he regrouped and then regrouped the last 7 games in 2012

However, people waxing poeting about the offensive prowess of the Marrone/ Hackett era need to remember that it took them at least 3 full years to put a decent product as far as offense out there. It took 3 years to produce a consistent offensive line, qb play, wide receivers. What happened to all our receivers not being able to beat press coverage? We didn't have enough speed? Our running backs weren't fast enough, etc etc etc etc. Running game and O line helps everyone.

Hey, Hack and Marrone did a great job this year but lets not get carried away here, sure Marrone left Syracuse with a case of red ass and went scorched earth on us, but BFD. Marrone did a lot of good things here but I certainly would not classify him and Hackett as Offensive gurus... Not if you look at the total body of work.

My point is the new guys may need some time as they lost a lot as well but there were no guarantees that Hackett and Marrone were going to repeat 2012 either, we lost a lot. Their history didn't bode well if you look at it. That said, I am very optimistic and very fired up for Coach Shafer. I have only met him once but I think he will be embraced by the Syracuse community, he carries a much smaller stick than Marrone, much less ego, more in tune with a town like Syracuse than Doug.

 

[DomeStranger]

Agree totally ... and 40 of those games Shafer's defense was good enough to win the game if the Offense and ST kept up.

I also don't think DM is the "savior" many are making him. I think there has always been a 5-6 win team on the field at a minimum. GROB was just so awful he couldn't find them. The fact that a rookie head coach could get 4 wins with a truncated GRob squad proves this.

DM was too "old school" ... may have worked for some guys but it sucks for recruiting, something DM just wasn't good at.

The future is bright orange!

 

[orangenirvana]

I think Marrone greatly improved as head coach over the last four years. He learned a lot from last season's collapse, which wasn't all his fault - injuries, lack of depth and lack of player leadership played bigger parts.

There's a reason why he had at least three franchises to choose from and would have likely interviewed for at least two or three more openings if he had turned the Bills job down. And I don't think there are many people who know football who would deny that Syracuse was absolutely a Top 20 team by the end of this season. Which, considering where Syracuse was when he was hired and the fact that he was never a great recruiter, is nothing short of amazing.

But that said - Syracuse will be fine. I like who Shafer is choosing for coordinators and the fact that Marrone helped the program turn the corner will help him tremendously.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think Marrone greatly improved as head coach over the last four years. He learned a lot from last season's collapse, which wasn't all his fault - injuries, lack of depth and lack of player leadership played bigger parts.

There's a reason why he had at least three franchises to choose from and would have likely interviewed for at least two or three more openings if he had turned the Bills job down. And I don't think there are many people who know football who would deny that Syracuse was absolutely a Top 20 team by the end of this season. Which, considering where Syracuse was when he was hired and the fact that he was never a great recruiter, is nothing short of amazing.

But that said - Syracuse will be fine. I like who Shafer is choosing for coordinators and the fact that Marrone helped the program turn the corner will help him tremendously.

I agree, I think Marrone did a very good job here, execpetional in certain areas, but I would not classify him as an offensive guru by any means.. Obvioulsy, what he inherited was a mess as well, there were a few parts and pieces but not anything that resembled a BCS football program. I also believe with what we lost on offense it will be tough for anyone to come in and repeat the numbers that were put up this year. My whole point is, the offense sucked a lot more than it was any good over Marrone's 4 years

 

[SmilinBob]

The part of Marrone's offense that took time, maybe too much, but was and is getting better is the offensive line. The quality we have had is better than in years on the hill and that was one of the things I thought was the most important part of getting to the next level offensively. I liked the direction that was going.

 

[OttoForLife]

It also took them having three guys in Nassib, Lemon and Sales who were Seniors to finally it all together. Would have been very interesting to see what would have happened with someone like Loeb and/or one of the other QBs that don't have anywhere close to Ryan's game experience. Especially since Charlie was next in line and guys like Kinder and Hunt had not really been pushing up the depth charts. Would all their QBs need three plus years to pull it together?

 

[OrangeCrush22]

I don't think people are mad that Marrone's gone, it's the way he left. At least that's how I feel.

 

[cuseguy]

SU will miss Nassib, Lemon, Pugh and Thomas next year more than it will miss Marrone, Hackett, Adkins and Wheatley. Long term? Might be another story. We'll see.

 

[rosconey]

well if marone was any good he would have had a tank package before the season started -not after it cost you a game-

and didnt hackett admit they didnt install that offense till a few weeks before the season started? so we would have had a 4th year with zero offense

 

[rosconey]

well if marone was any good he would have had a tank package before the season started -not after it cost you a game-

and didnt hackett admit they didnt install that offense till a few weeks before the season started? so we would have had a 4th year with zero offense

 

[Stevenson]

You can say that again

 

[Millhouse]

And his offense sucked for about 38-40 of those games, my point here is not to pile on Doug. I certainly wanted him to stay and I am one that has not much issue with anything that he has done, remember before the hot finish people were dropping names of replacements for both he and Hackett. Coaching is strike while the iron is hot because it's sink or swim. I thought Doug was nothing short of horrendous the last 5-6 games of 2011. I think the job became too much for him the final part of last year but he regrouped and then regrouped the last 7 games in 2012

However, people waxing poeting about the offensive prowess of the Marrone/ Hackett era need to remember that it took them at least 3 full years to put a decent product as far as offense out there. It took 3 years to produce a consistent offensive line, qb play, wide receivers. What happened to all our receivers not being able to beat press coverage? We didn't have enough speed? Our running backs weren't fast enough, etc etc etc etc. Running game and O line helps everyone.

Hey, Hack and Marrone did a great job this year but lets not get carried away here, sure Marrone left Syracuse with a case of red ass and went scorched earth on us, but BFD. Marrone did a lot of good things here but I certainly would not classify him and Hackett as Offensive gurus... Not if you look at the total body of work.

My point is the new guys may need some time as they lost a lot as well but there were no guarantees that Hackett and Marrone were going to repeat 2012 either, we lost a lot. Their history didn't bode well if you look at it. That said, I am very optimistic and very fired up for Coach Shafer. I have only met him once but I think he will be embraced by the Syracuse community, he carries a much smaller stick than Marrone, much less ego, more in tune with a town like Syracuse than Doug.

generally, I think yards will lead to points but for whatever reason Marrone's amazing offense that took years to build up was good for 55th in the country.

You know who was better than 55th in the country this year? Shafer's defense.

D better than offense every single year of Marrone's tenure. I give Shafer more credit for that

O scoring rank last 4 years
55
83
93
99

D scoring rank
46
73
17
81

55th was a good jump but it's not the end of the world to have to go with another offense. The defense jump was only one notch less than the offense's

 

[fairfaxcuse]

SU will miss Nassib, Lemon, Pugh and Thomas next year more than it will miss Marrone, Hackett, Adkins and Wheatley. Long term? Might be another story. We'll see.

agree...to be more specific, i think Nassib, Lemon,Thomas, Marrone, Hackett, Adkins and Wheatley will miss having a dominant lt like Pugh. The team's fortunes changed significantly when he became fully integrated into the lineup, particularly in the games following Pitt. Not to say the others didn't have a great season...just that Pugh seemed to be the tipping point (particularly after he got a few games under his belt) that got a dominant ground game going late in the season, which opened up the pass, controlled the clock and quite frankly, made everyone look better. With Pugh, we had the best talent in the big east. Of everyone noted on the list, Pugh is a sure fire NFL candidate; the rest i wish success but i'm not as confident.

 

[orangenirvana]

I don't think people are mad that Marrone's gone, it's the way he left. At least that's how I feel.

What type of departure would have made you feel better? Honest question.

 

[sufandu]

What type of departure would have made you feel better? Honest question.

I like your question, and I think the answer people are unwilling to say is none. He can't publicly announce he's looking for other jobs. What would that have done to recruiting? The ethical thing is to make sure Gross was in the loop. All reports indicate that's the way it went, and only they know if that's true. It also makes sense for a number of his staff to follow him, if that's who he thinks are best for the job. Look at Butch Jones to tennessee. Nearly his whole staff went with him. Coaching turnover is what it is. We'll see HCSS fire guys when he sees fit (we won't feel nearly as bad for them as we have for ourselves lately, despite it being their livelihood), and we'll see guys leave for other opportunities.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

What type of departure would have made you feel better? Honest question.

A clean and swift one. His was messy and dragged on. He exhausted all his options trying to get out of Syracuse. He lied to his employer, coaches, players, and recruits. He went against everything he ever preached in the span of a few days. It's just disgusting.

He should have admitted he was in over his head coaching the college game. He should have been upfront with his employer, coaches, players, and recruits. It's really that simple.

 

[Millhouse]

The DC we kept and promoted was the best coach on the staff who is a former run and shoot qb. We have a hot shot recruiter as offensive coordinator who is a little wet behind the ears and a qb coach who is not wet behind the ears but not a hot shot recruiter. Very complimentary. I'm not going to worry about being too Michiganish, especially considering that McDonald has been all over the country since then and since Shafer has been building his network in the northeast for the last few years.

I hope this leads to more speed and even simpler offenses.

 

[midloviking]

What type of departure would have made you feel better? Honest question.

Well, it looked like he would have taken any job just to get out of Syracuse. How bad was it than an alum wanted to be the first rat off the ship?

 

[sufandu]

A clean and swift one. His was messy and dragged on. He exhausted all his options trying to get out of Syracuse. He lied to his employer, coaches, players, and recruits. He went against everything he ever preached in the span of a few days. It's just disgusting.

He should have admitted he was in over his head coaching the college game. He should have been upfront with his employer, coaches, players, and recruits. It's really that simple.

How do you know what he told his employer and coaches? Reports say Gross was in the loop the entire time. He doesn't tell the recruits anything, because until he has an agreement with a team, he's SU's coach. How many people would've been screaming "stupidity" if he publicly announced he was seeking NFL jobs and called all of the recruits to tell them the same thing the minute he decided to interview for a job, only to not get any and return to SU? People would've said he was hamstringing his whole program and should've kept his mouth shut until he knew whether or not he was leaving. Which is what he did.

 

[SmilinBob]

I like your question, and I think the answer people are unwilling to say is none. He can't publicly announce he's looking for other jobs. What would that have done to recruiting? The ethical thing is to make sure Gross was in the loop. All reports indicate that's the way it went, and only they know if that's true. It also makes sense for a number of his staff to follow him, if that's who he thinks are best for the job. Look at Butch Jones to tennessee. Nearly his whole staff went with him. Coaching turnover is what it is. We'll see HCSS fire guys when he sees fit (we won't feel nearly as bad for them as we have for ourselves lately, despite it being their livelihood), and we'll see guys leave for other opportunities.

Good post but one thing I'd change is if Marrone went to Tennessee instead of the NFL it's possible the whole staff could have went with him. He didn't so as you said, it is what it is. We also don't know the interrelationships between coaches, maybe some on here do but a big percentage of people do not. None of the departures surprised me other than Adkins.

 

[sufandu]

Good post but one thing I'd change is if Marrone went to Tennessee instead of the NFL it's possible the whole staff could have went with him. He didn't so as you said, it is what it is. We also don't know the interrelationships between coaches, maybe some on here do but a big percentage of people do not. None of the departures surprised me other than Adkins.

Yeah. Maybe we consider ourselves lucky he went the NFL route. I'd like to still think SS would've taken the HC gig over DC at another school, but then he'd still be replacing even more staff than he already is.

 

[rrlbees]

generally, I think yards will lead to points but for whatever reason Marrone's amazing offense that took years to build up was good for 55th in the country.

You know who was better than 55th in the country this year? Shafer's defense.

D better than offense every single year of Marrone's tenure. I give Shafer more credit for that

O scoring rank last 4 years
55
83
93
99

D scoring rank
46
73
17
81

55th was a good jump but it's not the end of the world to have to go with another offense. The defense jump was only one notch less than the offense's

Another way to look at it though to kind of even out the conference someone plays in and the SOS is to just look at it comapred to the BCS team you played, not all 117 or whatever number of schools. I only looked at 2012 (too lazy) and amongst the 12 BCS teams and ourselves(13 teams) we were;

Offense 6th
Defense 9th

FWIW.

 

[Millhouse]

Another way to look at it though to kind of even out the conference someone plays in and the SOS is to just look at it comapred to the BCS team you played, not all 117 or whatever number of schools. I only looked at 2012 (too lazy) and amongst the 12 BCS teams and ourselves(13 teams) we were;

Offense 6th
Defense 9th

FWIW.

how does that even out the strength of schedule though?

 

[JoeSU]

Coaching is strike while the iron is hot because it's sink or swim.

Personally, I try to avoid the use of cliches like the plague.

But having said that, I agree with your point and think Turner Gill's career epitomizes it. In 4 years at Buffalo, despite managing just 1 winning season, he was considered to be one of the hottest young coaches in the country, and had several major programs courting him (including Syracuse and Nebraska). He ended up with 5 year/$10 million contract at Kansas, where he lasted exactly 2 seasons (going a combined 5-19, including 1-16 against Big-12 foes). Kansas was forced to honor the remainder of his contract, so Gill was basically paid $5 million/year.
Not a bad gig if you can get it.

 

[orangenirvana]

A clean and swift one. His was messy and dragged on. He exhausted all his options trying to get out of Syracuse. He lied to his employer, coaches, players, and recruits. He went against everything he ever preached in the span of a few days. It's just disgusting.

He should have admitted he was in over his head coaching the college game. He should have been upfront with his employer, coaches, players, and recruits. It's really that simple.

Your emotions are distorting reality.

1. How did it "drag on?" He spent one week interviewing with NFL teams. It seems like it "dragged on" because we have so much information available to us in this day and age and we're on this forum every day.

2. How could you possibly know that he lied to his employer, coaches, players, and recruits? His employer, coaches and players seem genuinely happy for him, with no bad feelings other than disappointment that their coach is leaving. Huge contradiction there.

3. Over his head coaching the college game - what are you talking about?