Liberty

[orangecuse]

Why is so tough to just give credit where credit is due orangecuse ? Liberty is undefeated. They have accomplished success in such a short time. I hope dino asks Freeze how he’s making it happen as coaches love to help each other. Id rather have them go undefeated so it looks like the SU loss isn’t nearly as bad as we thought it was

Yes, they're undefeated and 7-0. Let's see how they got there to date. They beat a 2-6 Western Kentucky team; an 0-3 FIU team; an 0-3 Northern Alabama team; an 0-8 Louisiana-Monroe team; an 1-7 Syracuse team; an 2-5 Southern Miss team, and an 4-3 VPI team. That is a combined win loss record of Liberty's opponents of 9-35.

Now, I realize that you can only play the teams that are on your schedule, etc., etc, and in that respect they are undefeated. I didn't in anyway not give them credit for that, that's your own thinking coming into play. What I did say, and consequentially challenged, was that this team was beating high quality/level opponents in route to being 7-0, in addition to 'deservedly' being ranked in the Top 10 by year's end. If you think that Liberty's wins to date, against these particular opponents, is something to write home about, well then, so be it. Apparently, I'm not so easily impressed as you are, along with some others.

Liberty's remaining schedule; an 0-0 Western Carolina team next week; a currently 4-3 NCST team after that; a currently 0-2 UMass team after that, and finishing the season off with a juggernaut team in Coastal Carolina. Coastal (such a household name on the gridiron) is currently 7-0 and ranked #15.

I agree that Liberty is sustaining success in a relatively short period of time...good for them. However, I'm not going to be one that roots for their success just so it lessens the significant stench of our team and the current state of SU's football program. And, hope is not a strategy. If Dino, at this stage of his career, has to ask Freeze how he's making it happen, well then, IMO, SU football will remain hopeless for sometime to come.

 

[Bayside44]

Yes, they're undefeated and 7-0. Let's see how they got there to date. They beat a 2-6 Western Kentucky team; an 0-3 FIU team; an 0-3 Northern Alabama team; an 0-8 Louisiana-Monroe team; an 1-7 Syracuse team; an 2-5 Southern Miss team, and an 4-3 VPI team. That is a combined win loss record of Liberty's opponents of 9-35.

Now, I realize that you can only play the teams that are on your schedule, etc., etc, and in that respect they are undefeated. I didn't in anyway not give them credit for that, that's your own thinking coming into play. What I did say, and consequentially challenged, was that this team was beating high quality/level opponents in route to being 7-0, in addition to 'deservedly' being ranked in the Top 10 by year's end. If you think that Liberty's wins to date, against these particular opponents, is something to write home about, well then, so be it. Apparently, I'm not so easily impressed as you are, along with some others.

Liberty's remaining schedule; an 0-0 Western Carolina team next week; a currently 4-3 NCST team after that; a currently 0-2 UMass team after that, and finishing the season off with a juggernaut team in Coastal Carolina. Coastal (such a household name on the gridiron) is currently 7-0 and ranked #15.

I agree that Liberty is sustaining success in a relatively short period of time...good for them. However, I'm not going to be one that roots for their success just so it lessens the significant stench of our team and the current state of SU's football program. And, hope is not a strategy. If Dino, at this stage of his career, has to ask Freeze how he's making it happen, well then, IMO, SU football will remain hopeless for sometime to come.

He takes a lot of big school transfers and schedules for success. Will be a short conversation.

 

[gmoney44]

They have 25 transfers

Dino needs 1/5 that but we get one or two every year instead. We just seem to be under the curve in every aspect of building a successful team.

 

[orangeinohio]

Their OL definitely looked better than SU's. They were definitely bigger.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Killing the anti-fundamental Christians and athiests on the board.

 

[Briancuse]

Liberty will get placed on probation by the end of the year.

 

[Hoo's That]

Liberty will get placed on probation by the end of the year.

In response to the question should Va Tech hire Hugh Freeze, one of our board gurus responded, "If he is introduced on Monday, NCAA rents 15 rooms in local motel Tuesday." BTW, Fuente's buyout at the end of this season is $10 million (which they don't have).

 

[TheCusian]

Sooooo, we lost to a top 25 team without our starting QB, our top 2 RB, a bunch of OL, our All-American S, 2 new coordinators during a pandemic?

Not sure I can get all that worked up about it

 

[Pyle]

Sooooo, we lost to a top 25 team without our starting QB, our top 2 RB, a bunch of OL, our All-American S, 2 new coordinators during a pandemic?

Not sure I can get all that worked up about it

Yeah well we're also 1-7 with a recruiting class ranked in the bottom 3 of the ACC. I can give a pass in regards to the play on the field this season, although with a side-eyed glance, however the lack of improvement on the recruiting front give me no hope that we are going to suddenly turn this ship around next year or after. Hope I'm wrong but we are still moving in the wrong direction.

 

[TheCusian]

Yeah well we're also 1-7 with a recruiting class ranked in the bottom 3 of the ACC. I can give a pass in regards to the play on the field this season, although with a side-eyed glance, however the lack of improvement on the recruiting front give me no hope that we are going to suddenly turn this ship around next year or after. Hope I'm wrong but we are still moving in the wrong direction.

I like the class. Couple it with a new frontier in transfer free agency and all this experience for young players

 

[Pyle]

I like the class. Couple it with a new frontier in transfer free agency and all this experience for young players

We are notorious as a collective of over-hyping our own recruits. After almost 10 years in the ACC I've come to the conclusion that you what your ranking says your are. We don't match up physically, not even the 4-5 years guys. It's a problem. Why you think a DB bottom ranked class is better than a SS bottom ranked class is beyond me but the lack of depth, physicality, etc should make you re-consider your evaluations.

Edit: I will add that we do get a few here and there just like past coaches. Trill/Cisco were players, but the overall general collective is what I'm referring to.

 

[TheCusian]

We are notorious as a collective of over-hyping our own recruits. After almost 10 years in the ACC I've come to the conclusion that you what your ranking says your are. We don't match up physically, not even the 4-5 years guys. It's a problem. Why you think a DB bottom ranked class is better than a SS bottom ranked class is beyond me but the lack of depth, physicality, etc should make you re-consider your evaluations.

Edit: I will add that we do get a few here and there just like past coaches. Trill/Cisco were players, but the overall general collective is what I'm referring to.

I’m not happy with the recruiting overall - it can and should be better. That I like the class we have coming doesn’t mean it can’t be better.

I think Dino’s classes are better than Shafer and Marrone’s. I don’t think they are good enough - but marginally better.

 

[Pyle]

I’m not happy with the recruiting overall - it can and should be better. That I like the class we have coming doesn’t mean it can’t be better.

I think Dino’s classes are better than Shafer and Marrone’s. I don’t think they are good enough - but marginally better.

"I like the class", "but it should be better" sounds like talking out both sides of your mouth.

 

[TheCusian]

"I like the class", "but it should be better" sounds like talking out both sides of your mouth.

Nope. Exactly what I mean. Had we absolutely killed it on the recruiting trail I’d have used different words lol

Recruiting is one of those things that you’ll never be satisfied with - it can always be better for 129 other teams and even that #1 class probably has fans nitpicking stuff.

What portion of this upcoming class has you most upset? Where are the misses?

 

[Pyle]

Nope. Exactly what I mean. Had we absolutely killed it on the recruiting trail I’d have used different words lol

Recruiting is one of those things that you’ll never be satisfied with - it can always be better for 129 other teams and even that #1 class probably has fans nitpicking stuff.

What portion of this upcoming class has you most upset? Where are the misses?

We missed on being better than 11 other ACC schools. And after 20 years of recruiting excuses I believe, as previously mentioned, you are what your ranking says you are. Misses? If we are ranked 12th in the ACC either we missed or aren't trying hard enough(which i think is BS btw, I'm pretty sure this staff IS trying)

 

[TheCusian]

View attachment 190992
We missed on being better than 11 other ACC schools. And after 20 years of recruiting excuses I believe, as previously mentioned, you are what your ranking says you are. Misses? If we are ranked 12th in the ACC either we missed or aren't trying hard enough(which i think is BS btw, I'm pretty sure this staff IS trying)

So you don’t have any specific details as to what you don’t like about the class?

I agree that it’s unlikely that’s it’s due to effort. I’d bet that 50-60 is our baseline at this point. So how does is get better? I think it’s imperative that we hit the transfer market hard, given the new rules - to fill holes and improve on misses. Who is focused on that?

 

[Pyle]

So you don’t have any specific details as to what you don’t like about the class?

I agree that it’s unlikely that’s it’s due to effort. I’d bet that 50-60 is our baseline at this point. So how does is get better? I think it’s imperative that we hit the transfer market hard, given the new rules - to fill holes and improve on misses. Who is focused on that?

No i don't have specific details. I don't follow the classes that closely anymore. When I did, I was guilty of doing the same thing, convincing myself that the evaluators didn't know what they were talking about and spinning ways into feeling good about a class. I've simplified my approach since 20 years of bottom recruiting rankings has led to 20 years of futile football and I feel confident in my evaluation at this point. Higher classes = more wins and yes it's subjective. We can't just compare to ourselves. We have to be compared to our conference because that is where we decided to compete.

 

[Newhouser]

Even if we get better people here - are we totally convinced that our staff can develop the talent into ACC quality players?

 

[TheCusian]

No i don't have specific details. I don't follow the classes that closely anymore. When I did, I was guilty of doing the same thing, convincing myself that the evaluators didn't know what they were talking about and spinning ways into feeling good about a class. I've simplified my approach since 20 years of bottom recruiting rankings has led to 20 years of futile football and I feel confident in my evaluation at this point. Higher classes = more wins and yes it's subjective. We can't just compare to ourselves. We have to be compared to our conference because that is where we decided to compete.

Thank you for putting words in my mouth, lol. I don't do that - I look at need and what the evaluators are saying about those key recruits. I also look at offers.

Also, this nice recruiting side-track we've been on doesn't diminish my initial post - which was seeing this season as an asterisk filled outing and cutting everyone some slack.

 

[TheCusian]

Even if we get better people here - are we totally convinced that our staff can develop the talent into ACC quality players?

Lol. Yes. The staff did it in 2018.

 

[721Comstock]

I’m not happy with the recruiting overall - it can and should be better. That I like the class we have coming doesn’t mean it can’t be better.

I think Dino’s classes are better than Shafer and Marrone’s. I don’t think they are good enough - but marginally better.

Huh? How many Freshman AA's and Groza Award winners did FHCSMFS recruit??

How is that only marginally better?

Once Josh Hough gets bumped up to 4* (from the absurd 2* he currently has), this upcoming class will be far and away the best one at Syracuse in decades.

Syracuse as a program is never gonna get a ton of 4* guys.
Especially given our on-field struggles, which (other than 2018) have been ongoing for the entirety of all of these recruits lifetimes.

Wishing for that, is just a long-term prescription for ongoing disappointment.

 

[TheCusian]

Huh? How many Freshman AA's and Groza Award winners did FHCSMFS recruit??

How is that only marginally better?

Once Josh Hough gets bumped up to 4* (from the absurd 2* he currently has), this upcoming class will be far and away the best one at Syracuse in decades.

Syracuse as a program is never gonna get a ton of 4* guys.
Especially given our on-field struggles, which (other than 2018) have been ongoing for the entirety of all of these recruits lifetimes.

Wishing for that, is just a long-term prescription for ongoing disappointment.

C'mon. You new here? I'm well aware of our shortcomings re:4*...

Cisco get's balanced out by Dungey in my mind. They may have lucked into him - but it's between him and Nassib for best since McNabb, IMO. I hear you on this years class, but there are enough misses on the OL and in the QB room to pump the breaks on anything more than "marginally better".

 

[SUbear]

Liberty will get placed on probation by the end of the year.

Bet not.

 

[JimBoston]

Sure, recruiting rankings are important, but they are not more important than projecting and developing players.

BC and Syracuse are peer programs and really should be recruiting against each other on a number of prospects. It's funny, the last 6 years, Syracuse's recruiting class has been rated higher than BC's, every year.

2015: Syracuse 57, BC 60
2016: Syracuse 62, BC 78
2017: Syracuse 54, BC 67
2018: Syracuse 51, BC 71
2019: Syracuse 57, BC 64
2020: Syracuse 58, BC 62

I think the difference in recruiting rankings is due to BC recruiting more kids from the Northeast and they are generally not ranked as high as similar players from other parts of the country. In the 2017 and 2018 recruiting classes, BC took 30 kids from NY/PA.NJ/New England and Syracuse took 12.

Compare the number of players in the NFL by state and the number of 3* and better players in each state in 2020:

New York: 35 players in the NFL, 21 3*s in 2020

Michigan: 37 players in the NFL, 63 3*s in 2020
Missouri: 27 players in the NFL, 46 3*s in 2020
Wisconsin: 25 players in the NFL, 29 3*s in 2020
Indiana: 22 players in the NFL, 36 3*s in 2020

Why does this happen? In places like the Midwest, there are plenty of MAC programs so there is more visibility for players and more school fanbases that subscribe to recruiting services that get their recruits a bump. For example, in Michigan, there were 63 3*s and 32 went to P5 schools. In Wisconsin, there were 29 3*s and 12 went to P5 schools.

If you want to get a bump in your recruiting rankings based on stars, don't recruit as many players from the Northeast.

 

[Pyle]

Thank you for putting words in my mouth, lol. I don't do that - I look at need and what the evaluators are saying about those key recruits. I also look at offers.

Also, this nice recruiting side-track we've been on doesn't diminish my initial post - which was seeing this season as an asterisk filled outing and cutting everyone some slack.

I didn't put words in your mouth, I did accuse you of doing those things though, don't deny that. Until you take all those things and put them into perspective, like compare those thing with how well our ACC peers are doing those same things, then it doesn't mean jack. I don't care if we get marginally better at positions of need, we need to be better at those positions than our peers. As for your OP, i was saying that we can give them some slack except on the recruiting front, that doesn't take a year off.