Linebacker

[Dmcnabbrules]

I know the staff like ZMG going in to fall camp. I liked Caden Brown on special teams. Heard was a good get last year. I want to see these guys grow and get some time.

 

[upperdeck]

Who was it that got hurt early that they said was running with the 2s (Washington?) . Was he a DB or running with the LBs?

 

[vegasnick]

From what has been said and from the size of the incoming class- I think there is too much “hoping” on adding through the portal. They went after AJ Pena and Riley Wilson, both landed elsewhere. Fran has made it clear he thinks very highly of this recruiting class and is committed to develop within. Last year we were spoked with all the portal additions. He had to do that because it was basically a roster overhaul. There is TWO starting linebacker spots to fill. There’s enough depth there to provide intense competition and may the best TWO win. Between Sparrow, McDonald, Heard, Fatim, Goddard, and AD it looks like there are some good options. I am not one to believe that true freshman can’t start - that said I fully expect AD to contribute to some degree this year. You can’t ignore his size and strength especially at SAM, and his film shows impressive speed.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Who was it that got hurt early that they said was running with the 2s (Washington?) . Was he a DB or running with the LBs?

Washington is a defensive back.

 

[All4SU]

Appreciate this, very interesting and useful intel.

I hate when I come to this board and actually learn something.

 

[upperdeck]

The best thing Fran has done is get guys on the field. Guys know they can play will practice better, It adds depth, and guys don't get as beat up.

Now you can only do that if the drop off is not as deep from spot to spot. We kept guys like Barron/Wax on more than most. But the rotation of the DBs was pretty clear all year and not something we always have seen.

 

[GoSU96]

I hear ya, and I have a bias for all these guys, I really liked this team, but I think our offense covered the fact even with our best defenders on the field we got exposed a lot. From the Pitt game on the least we gave up was 24 and that was against uconn.

I understand, but people are overly discounting the players on the roster already. Based on the relative lack of portal activity either way the staff must feel fairly comfortable.

 

[NJneer12]

They played but we were talking impact true freshman starters.

Lynch - true freshman 2011; 11 games one start
Bennett - true freshman 2014; 8 games no starts.
Franklin - true freshman 2014; 12 games 3 starts.

Mikel Jones. He definitely played significant snaps in 2019 and probably started a bunch. He made a big TFL in the Clemson game that has stuck with me.

 

[007]

I understand, but people are overly discounting the players on the roster already. Based on the relative lack of portal activity either way the staff must feel fairly comfortable.

Too early yet to know how comfortable the staff feels.

 

[orangepassion]

A true freshman would have to be very special and cerebral to start in ERob’s 4-2-5, as a lot is asked of those players.

The 4-2-5 is not a “mirror” defense like a 4-3, 3-4, or a 3-3-5, meaning that the offense has a very easy time knowing where the strong side and weak side of the D is at alignment.

Your Sam (strong side) backer has to be a big bodied player but also pretty mobile, as they need to be able to take on linemen, in running situations, pulling guards, etc. However, they also are used in a lot of pass coverage situations as well, so the need to be able to run.

The Will, or weak side linebacker, needs to be able to cover and play in space, with help from the Rover or hybrid safety in run support. This player needs to have a pretty good grasp of what the other team is trying to do, especially with regards to pass concepts.

So for a true freshman to come in and contribute they would have to be physically developed and move in order to play the Sam, or be a hybrid type and understand offensive systems extremely well to play the Will. This isn’t necessarily a defense that tells a linebacker to fill this gap and get the curl in passing situations.

There’s a reason why teams like Georgia. Alabama, etc run it…it’s a great defense against spread offenses. But you need big bodied athletes to play LB in it.

There’s a reason the defense looked better when Barron slid down and played Will and there’s a reason McDonald struggled when asked to do it.

IMO, we will definitely look to add via the portal before next year.

I wonder if Mcdonald plays some Edge for us on the line next year. He played DE in HS and has decent size.

 

[UD1954]

Most high school kids need a year in S&C before there ready to see the field... HCFB and staff know what they have roster wise so if they're not hitting the portal hard I'm good with that

 

[Sudano]

From what has been said and from the size of the incoming class- I think there is too much “hoping” on adding through the portal. They went after AJ Pena and Riley Wilson, both landed elsewhere. Fran has made it clear he thinks very highly of this recruiting class and is committed to develop within. Last year we were spoked with all the portal additions. He had to do that because it was basically a roster overhaul. There is TWO starting linebacker spots to fill. There’s enough depth there to provide intense competition and may the best TWO win. Between Sparrow, McDonald, Heard, Fatim, Goddard, and AD it looks like there are some good options. I am not one to believe that true freshman can’t start - that said I fully expect AD to contribute to some degree this year. You can’t ignore his size and strength especially at SAM, and his film shows impressive speed.

By going after players in the porta it proves he knows he needs better talent. I agree with that because there is enough video of Sparrow and McDonald and they aren't the answer, I don't know about the rest of them. And with injury we need more than 2.

 

[Niastri]

I thought MLB was a big problem this year.

We let Wax freelance an awful lot, often to completely disastrous results in the run game. We were more gap sound during the stretch he was out (GT, Stanford, UNLV, NCSU) and then looked like Ohio all over again once he came back, giving up huge plays on the ground against VT, BC, Cal, and Uconn.

In Wax's defense, McDonald couldn't do anything in space and we got dinked and dunked to death with short passes when he was in. I suspect his PFF tackle grade was artificially inflated because there were so many plays where McDonald got juked so badly that he didn't even get a hand on the ball carrier and thus didn't get dinged for a "missed tackle."

I feel like we need 2 Justin Barrons and now we have no Justin Barrons.

Wasn't Justin Barron a safety that grew into a linebacker. Who then only played linebacker because Wax was injured?

If I remember correctly, we might have several Justin Barron types on the roster right now.

 

[kingtidge]

As of now this defense has a lot of holes to fill and they can’t all be filled by freshmen.

Indeed.

One of the biggest issues with Freshmen LB's and safeties is adjusting to the speed of the college game, picking proper angles, tackling fundamentals on bigger/faster/more elusive players, etc.

You get that development through experience... which is why Freshmen have a hard time starting and being effective.

We need some portalers for sure.

 

[Sudano]

Wasn't Justin Barron a safety that grew into a linebacker. Who then only played linebacker because Wax was injured?

If I remember correctly, we might have several Justin Barron types on the roster right now.

That was a stop gap measure that we had to make due to injuries and lack of talent on the roster and didn't ultimately improve our defense to the level that anyone would think it to be repeatable, followed, or a successful blueprint

 

[Niastri]

From what has been said and from the size of the incoming class- I think there is too much “hoping” on adding through the portal. They went after AJ Pena and Riley Wilson, both landed elsewhere. Fran has made it clear he thinks very highly of this recruiting class and is committed to develop within. Last year we were spoked with all the portal additions. He had to do that because it was basically a roster overhaul. There is TWO starting linebacker spots to fill. There’s enough depth there to provide intense competition and may the best TWO win. Between Sparrow, McDonald, Heard, Fatim, Goddard, and AD it looks like there are some good options. I am not one to believe that true freshman can’t start - that said I fully expect AD to contribute to some degree this year. You can’t ignore his size and strength especially at SAM, and his film shows impressive speed.

Deslauriers definitely seems to have the speed. His recruiting thread says he's at 4.61 speed, which makes him about average for OLB in the NFL and faster than average for ILB (source: two different sites sourced by Google AI) by about .15 seconds in the 40. Measurements and speed really can't be trusted until you see somebody's combine measurements, so take the information at your own risk.

But if Deslauriers is actually 230ish and running a 4.61, he has all the physical tools to play right away.

Between the returning guys, Grant moving up like Barron did, and Deslauriers, I think we can fill the two linebacker spots with quality.

I think we might want another transfer linebacker to come in anyway, because we won't have adequate quality depth for a long season if we have bad injury luck.

 

[shu 49]

From what has been said and from the size of the incoming class- I think there is too much “hoping” on adding through the portal. They went after AJ Pena and Riley Wilson, both landed elsewhere. Fran has made it clear he thinks very highly of this recruiting class and is committed to develop within. Last year we were spoked with all the portal additions. He had to do that because it was basically a roster overhaul. There is TWO starting linebacker spots to fill. There’s enough depth there to provide intense competition and may the best TWO win. Between Sparrow, McDonald, Heard, Fatim, Goddard, and AD it looks like there are some good options. I am not one to believe that true freshman can’t start - that said I fully expect AD to contribute to some degree this year. You can’t ignore his size and strength especially at SAM, and his film shows impressive speed.

Your correct and i get that is what he wants, but he even knows you aint winning a championship with frosh and sophomores. Period. Not one championship in last 40 years had a lot of them. All the good teams are sr. and Jr. laiden teams with tons of experience and size and speed. If we stick with this type of choices we may end up 5-7 next year. If we dont get mccord then we have to greatlhy improve our defense in all facets to make up all the points we wont have. Im nervous either way.

 

[orangemass]

One veteran linebacker with some pedigree would be nice

 

[shu 49]

Deslauriers definitely seems to have the speed. His recruiting thread says he's at 4.61 speed, which makes him about average for OLB in the NFL and faster than average for ILB (source: two different sites sourced by Google AI) by about .15 seconds in the 40. Measurements and speed really can't be trusted until you see somebody's combine measurements, so take the information at your own risk.

But if Deslauriers is actually 230ish and running a 4.61, he has all the physical tools to play right away.

Between the returning guys, Grant moving up like Barron did, and Deslauriers, I think we can fill the two linebacker spots with quality.

I think we might want another transfer linebacker to come in anyway, because we won't have adequate quality depth for a long season if we have bad injury luck.

You will have very few guys we grt that will start and improve our defense ftom day one. We can get a Watson type who plays and does well but there are holes is his tool bag that he needs to work on as all frosh do. No way Grant comes down and plays LB. Sparrow is areally good 3rd linebacker. We need 2 definite starters that need to come in. Im assuning we are a 2 gap defense so we need guys that fill proper gaps and come downhill.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

You will have very few guys we grt that will start and improve our defense ftom day one. We can get a Watson type who plays and does well but there are holes is his tool bag that he needs to work on as all frosh do. No way Grant comes down and plays LB. Sparrow is areally good 3rd linebacker. We need 2 definite starters that need to come in. Im assuning we are a 2 gap defense so we need guys that fill proper gaps and come downhill.

Agree. I can see Grant at star. Once he gets the MCL fixed, he has a high ceiling - even hurt he improved his angles and tackling. But at 200 lbs, LB in a 4-2 is a stretch (both guys need coverage skills and enough size to stop the run). Barron is lighter than Wax and Grant is 25 lbs lighter than Barron. To my untrained eye, the only guy on roster with decent weight (225+) and speed is ZMG. He's been in the program and might be the one to step up. The rest are a year away (J. Brown, Diggs and C. Brown), too slow (McDonald, edit, Sparrow?), built more for the edge than coverage (Lesaine, David O) or lack experience (edit, Heard, AD, Thompson, Dudley).

 

[GoSU96]

You will have very few guys we grt that will start and improve our defense ftom day one. We can get a Watson type who plays and does well but there are holes is his tool bag that he needs to work on as all frosh do. No way Grant comes down and plays LB. Sparrow is areally good 3rd linebacker. We need 2 definite starters that need to come in. Im assuning we are a 2 gap defense so we need guys that fill proper gaps and come downhill.

Unless more guys leave there isn’t any room.

 

[GoSU96]

Agree. I can see Grant at star. Once he gets the MCL fixed, he has a high ceiling - even hurt he improved his angles and tackling. But at 200 lbs, LB in a 4-2 is a stretch (both guys need coverage skills and enough size to stop the run). Barron is lighter than Wax and Grant is 25 lbs lighter than Barron. To my untrained eye, the only guy on roster with decent weight (225+) and speed is ZMG. He's been in the program and might be the one to step up. The rest are a year away (J. Brown, Diggs and C. Brown), too slow (McDonald), built more for the edge than coverage (Lesaine, David O) or lack experience (AD, Thompson and Dudley).

As things stand I think:

Two of Sparrow, Heard, and ZMG will be the starters.

Jacquez, David O, KJE at the edge rush position.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

As things stand I think:

Two of Sparrow, Heard, and ZMG will be the starters.

Jacquez, David O, KJE at the edge rush position.

Sparrow seems like a warrior in run fits, but I wonder about coverage. Heard has size (almost 230) and moves well, just haven't seen him much to have an opinion. No stats for him in SU Athletics. ESPN has him playing in 4 games + the Holiday bowl, with 7 total tackles for the season. ZMB definitely has flashed and could be really good. As you point out, portal activity, or lack of it, will tell us what the staff thinks.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Unless more guys leave there isn’t any room.

They'll make room. Just like they did for the Marshall transfer. I've heard they still want to add bodies on defense and expect that includes a LB, DT and CB. Not all will be starters. They really want the bodies to rotate on D-line.

 

[baggerbob]

They'll make room. Just like they did for the Marshall transfer. I've heard they still want to add bodies on defense and expect that includes a LB, DT and CB. Not all will be starters. They really want the bodies to rotate on D-line.

They need at least 4 good DT , so Watson, and Perry can rotate in and out, keep fresh bodies on the field. Same with the edge guys, that's why the best teams do.