Looks Like No Arena For Now

[CUSU]

But there is a lot that you wouldn't have to do on that site that you would elsewhere. If it's impossible or cost prohibitive that one thing, but just because it's difficult or more expensive there are a lot of benefits that you would have to weigh against it.

Not disagreeing with you there. I think it would be a great location for a Stadium without the geo-technical issues.

 

[FAL]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the Inner Harbor is actually the targeted destination and all of this foreplay is an attempt to negate criticism later for not putting it in the city?

You make a lot of sense, and a lot of posters agree with you. Esthetically and practically, the Inner Harbor makes a lot of sense. Engineering issues be damned: it would be a great place--easy access from major roads, great nearby attractions, lots of room for tailgating, and most importantly, no nearby neighbors who would get their panties in a wad over all the traffic and noise.

 

[orangedave]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the Inner Harbor is actually the targeted destination and all of this foreplay is an attempt to negate criticism later for not putting it in the city?

The inner harbor is in the city

 

[retro44]

Really, you think that if the City isn't part of the funding stream the state of New York and Onondaga County are going to leave the City holding the bag. Where in the world do you get more likely than not?

The city doesn't have any money. All the parties realize this. They didn't come to her and say we have 400 of 500, where's your 100?

If the city hasn't underwritten the bonds, city tax payers aren't at risk from that perspective.

And the vast majority of that property is not city owned, either by the City itself or the Syracuse Urban Renewal Agency. Almost all is owned either by Upstate directly or Upstate Prop Devel Inc, which is one of its charitable organization associated with Upstate. At the end of the day it's State land not City.

She's not losing tax money on the property now and hasn't been for a real long time. And I highly doubt that property will be on the tax rolls for a very long time.

They own the land about half way up Solar south of Bear. You put 50K stadium there, my guess is Bob would donate it/deed it for a $1 (whichever provides the most tax benefit). It would drive traffic to the mall and he would be able to get the rest of the property leased.

yup and for a few extra million you extend a indoor catwalk from the mall to the stadium for hurricane weather days.

and here?...http://www.syracuse.com/news/index...._golf_public_country_club.html#incart_m-rpt-2

could be a good bluff

 

[KellySyracuse]

Holy smokes, another story on the subject:

"Syverud's take: Let's work together openly and honestly to do what's right for SU and the community."

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....e_job_su_chancellor_appeals_for_patience.html

"Syracuse University, the City of Syracuse and the County have a good history of working well together, which I am hopeful will continue. Working well together requires each of us to be honest about our interests after full communication of the details about how projects will affect the University, the City and the County. I am committed to continuing to work together to meet the challenge presented in this analysis. Whatever conclusion we reach, our collective objective will be to find a solution that is best for the University and the community."

 

[retro44]

With Minor begging for $$16 million plus in extra state aid, I would move out of the city ASAP before the property tax rates for the >50%> of current taxed properties get nailed hard.

Is Chris Christie Cuomo's mentor?

This new Chancellor seems to be all in for Syracuse football and I am happy as hell as this is his first or second week on the job officially

 

[retro44]

People seem to forget that 250 acre parcel in clay n.y. that the county owns and is trying to develop. Stadium and all sorts of new developments that could happen on the site that should make the mayor crawl back on her knees to Cuomo,and just the thought of that makes me cringe.

My first choice would be the inner harbor

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Holy smokes, another story on the subject:

"Syverud's take: Let's work together openly and honestly to do what's right for SU and the community."

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....e_job_su_chancellor_appeals_for_patience.html

"Syracuse University, the City of Syracuse and the County have a good history of working well together, which I am hopeful will continue. Working well together requires each of us to be honest about our interests after full communication of the details about how projects will affect the University, the City and the County. I am committed to continuing to work together to meet the challenge presented in this analysis. Whatever conclusion we reach, our collective objective will be to find a solution that is best for the University and the community."

Welcome to journalism in the 21st Century.

"How many times can we get you to visit our website? "

 

[KaiserUEO]

The inner harbor is in the city

"Who is it???"

"It's me Dave, I got the stuff."

"Dave's not here man"

"No. I'm Dave. I got the stuff"

"Dave?"

"Yeah"

"......Dave's, not here man"

 

[retro44]

Somebody did mention that and I agree.

Working for a Civil Engineering firm in the Syracuse area over the summer a lot was mentioned about that area being unstable and very hard to build on. Costs would most likely be much more because of the need for additional amounts of engineering, a floating foundation I believe, if it is even possible for something of that mass.

yup the carrousel mall was built on 20 feet of Styrofoam. Their biggest fear is that it might float out to Onondaga lake and then they could open up a casino

 

[SU2NASA]

This new Chancellor seems to be all in for Syracuse football and I am happy as hell as this is his first or second week on the job officially

Well, we are a football school.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Well, we are a football school.

Remember to tell that to Steve Ishmael this weekend.

 

[CuseOnly]

yup the carrousel mall was built on 20 feet of Styrofoam. Their biggest fear is that it might float out to Onondaga lake and then they could open up a casino

Destiny Mall is built on 1200 Pylons driven from 190 feet to 300 feet below the surface into solid bedrock below the mall. I have never heard that it was built on Styrofoam before.

http://www.bdcnetwork.com/high-tech-approach-pile-driving

http://blog.syracuse.com/news/2007/08/Destinypiledriver3.graphic.pdf

Edit: I thought you said Destiny, you said Carousel in which case you would be correct.
http://geofoam.syr.edu/GRC_caro.asp

 

[cusefan88]

I just don't see a stadium happening anytime soon. City/County/SU will have to come to an agreement on location, costs to build, ownership of the stadium, etc.

IMO a lot of sports fans don't realize how messy and complicated building venues can be. In our situation the county finances are superior to the city's and the University is a giant wild card. They all want the baby without the labor pains.

 

[Opus]

Right north of the Inner Harbor is MacArthur Stadium. (that's right MacArthur Stadium ) Hell, do a KC thing, bball/football right next to each other. OK OK, I think they should just upgrade the Dome right now. Start with putting individual seats in the lower bowl?

 

[retro44]

Destiny Mall is built on 1200 Pylons driven from 190 feet to 300 feet below the surface into solid bedrock below the mall. I have never heard that it was built on Styrofoam before.

http://www.bdcnetwork.com/high-tech-approach-pile-driving

http://blog.syracuse.com/news/2007/08/Destinypiledriver3.graphic.pdf

Edit: I thought you said Destiny, you said Carousel in which case you would be correct.
http://geofoam.syr.edu/GRC_caro.asp

if you look at the picture of the foam those were the small panels on the exterior walls,some in the interior of the mall were like 40 foot long by 8 foot thick. I spent a year of my life in that hell hole and you would never find a living bug in the soil there. I was installing HVAC there

 

[CuseOnly]

if you look at the picture of the foam those were the small panels on the exterior walls,some in the interior of the mall were like 40 foot long by 8 foot thick. I year of my life in that hell hole and you would never find a living bug in the soil there. I was installing HVAC there

My older brother was installing tile as the mall was opening and people were walking on it. Most ridiculous construction project ever. Congel hosed a lot of companies on that project and put them under.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Congel may be a jackass and a scam artist but at least he got rid of Oil City.

 

[FAL]

"Who is it???"

"It's me Dave, I got the stuff."

"Dave's not here man"

"No. I'm Dave. I got the stuff"

"Dave?"

"Yeah"

"...Dave's, not here man"

"Hey man--you wanna bite of my Dome Dog?"

 

[Millhouse]

the inner harbor's location on a map is the new barry baker

 

[retro44]

My older brother was installing tile as the mall was opening and people were walking on it. Most ridiculous construction project ever. Congel hosed a lot of companies on that project and put them under.

My company got paid in full as I am in the union and our wages were stable and kept a even workforce for what was needed to be done on time. I saw a lot of residential contractors on the site that had no business biding on a huge high pace project. I saw numerous times where someone would walk in the room and tell their buddy the guy down the hall was paying a buck more an hour and would quit that contractor and go to the other. It left that contractor hanging as their was strict time tables to be met and it was almost impossible to verify the next hire if he was qualified to do the work.

It was a huge game and congel took advantage of it.....really, the temporary employees of the green contractors should take the most of the blame as they sometimes disappear for hours on their contractor's dime chasing for more money. Contractors were dumb for hiring people they didn't know or trust.

 

[GoSU96]

My company got paid in full as I am in the union and our wages were stable and kept a even workforce for what was needed to be done on time. I saw a lot of residential contractors on the site that had no business biding on a huge high pace project. I saw numerous times where someone would walk in the room and tell their buddy the guy down the hall was paying a buck more an hour and would quit that contractor and go to the other. It left that contractor hanging as their was strict time tables to be met and it was almost impossible to verify the next hire if he was qualified to do the work.

It was a huge game and congel took advantage of it...really, the temporary employees of the green contractors should take the most of the blame as they sometimes disappear for hours on their contractor's dime chasing for more money. Contractors were dumb for hiring people they didn't know or trust.

Awful lot of urban legends about that. If there were firm delivery schedules and penalties for missing them, if they were fixed priced contracts, and people bidding them weren't experienced managing that risk profile, no wonder they lost money.

It wouldn't be because Pyramid ripped them off, it's because they didn't perform to the terms of their contract.

 

[NKR1978]

this is all so childish. how dare miner be skeptical of spending 500 million from the outset!

i wish skepticism was the default stance for people wanting to spend half a billion of other people's money

Yeah, why would a mayor of an economically depressed city want a $500,000,000 development project and all the jobs that would create?

 

[oldpinepoint]

Awful lot of urban legends about that. If there were firm delivery schedules and penalties for missing them, if they were fixed priced contracts, and people bidding them weren't experienced managing that risk profile, no wonder they lost money.

It wouldn't be because Pyramid ripped them off, it's because they didn't perform to the terms of their contract.

It's because Destiny has better lawyers than anyone else.

 

[Millhouse]

Yeah, why would a mayor of an economically depressed city want a $500,000,000 development project and all the jobs that would create?

she is wary of something that sounds too good to be true.

miner hasn't done or said anything that would kill this

when someone is trying to sell you something that sounds too good to be true and the deal only holds if you sign right now, you should be skeptical

McMahon "It's a complex partnership for a regional project that requires state and county funds as well as working with Syracuse University and a private owner-operator,'' McMahon said. "It also would require some support from city hall. And there's been to date a lack of enthusiasm for the project from city hall.''

So Miner is a roadblock because she wants to understand a complex partnership and because she wants to know specifically what "some support from city hall" means?

 

[NKR1978]

she is wary of something that sounds too good to be true.

miner hasn't done or said anything that would kill this

when someone is trying to sell you something that sounds too good to be true and the deal only holds if you sign right now, you should be skeptical

McMahon "It's a complex partnership for a regional project that requires state and county funds as well as working with Syracuse University and a private owner-operator,'' McMahon said. "It also would require some support from city hall. And there's been to date a lack of enthusiasm for the project from city hall.''

So Miner is a roadblock because she wants to understand a complex partnership and because she wants to know specifically what "some support from city hall" means?

I don't think she's out of line but she does seems petty. I don't even want a new stadium though so I hope she blocks it. Still, this isn't a situation where a pro sports team blackmails a city or state (hey Bills!). Syracuse University isn't moving anywhere.