Luke Arciniega | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

Luke Arciniega

upperdeck said:
If the juco comes in and plays a solid two years why is that a bad thing? the reality is that most kids RS then some start to play a bit year two, and hopefully perform for 3 yrs, but not all do and not all jucos play at a high level for two. Clark didn't seem to do all that much last year, but still he caught passes, scored TD's and did more than several rcvrs we have who have been on the roster for 2-3 yrs.

We don't really get 4 years out of most of the HS kids we recruit, the real question is can the kid play, getting more than two solid years out of anyone is a bonus.
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Frankly I think stocking this class with JUCOs is great. They are game ready and you can round our the class with guys that will be around for 2 seasons (or 3 in some cases) and really focus on recruiting for '14 and '15 and go after bigger fish instead of chasing more high school kids in the current '13 class. Plus it allows you to focus on the big fish you have left ... i.e. EO.
 
richard levy said:
Bill Snyder built that program with JCs - many from outside KS.

K-State was not farming out athletes when he arrived in Manhattan, KS - it was the worst major college football team in history.
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Before he retired there first time, and now in his current reign. I'm from there, he basically gets the JC kids from the same 3-4 JC schools, one in TX, two in KS, one in Iowa. Its not absolute, some do come from CA. Not a lot of d1 high school football in kansas. Kids he recruits out of high school that may have to go JC for size/grades, but much like the Milford situation with SU, he tries to stay close and ultimately get them to go to KSU when ready. Look, even Alabama gets an occasional JC player, one was at Milford last year?, but most schools don't routinely use the JC route, hopefully, this won't be the norm for us, I like the traditional way of developing players in the program, pros and cons, not looking to raise a ruckus. People hold up KSU as the measuring stick for recruiting JC, like using Boise ST to show that recruiting rankings don't matter. Its not absolute, coaches get who they get[/quote]


Yes, my recollection was that Michael Bishop was from Texas as were others?

I don't care how it is done - I just want quality players/kids.

I love Deon Goggins, Pierce-Brewster, Diabate, Jones and the others - does not matter to me that they were JCs. They are Orange now.
 
PhatOrange said:
Snyder does not farm out kids to JCs. These kids end up at JC because they can't get into college. If they were eligible they'd be enrolling at KState - or someplace else - right out of the gate. He recruits them because they are in his backyard and play at type notch programs. They are also ready made to win now and don't need much development. This is the single biggest advantage of a juco vs a high school kid.

There's no comparison of a JUCO to Milford though (or Hargrave or Fork Union for that matter).

JC's kids start losing elibility, Milford is a prep school (essentially a 5th year of high school) kids don't lose eligibility by attending and they either need a higher test score or to raise a grade or two. The majority of JUCO kids are ineligible and need to graduate JUCO to be eligible.

I find it a little interesting that while people are putting our staff down for recruiting JUCO's 3 kids we wanted have now committed to Miami, Oregon and Boise St. So obviously the JUCO's we're recruiting can ball.
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Jordan Rogers at Vandy, Aaron's brother, or you could use Aaron. Both went to JC because of size and lightly recruited, they were both academically sound, so play against better comp and then score a D1 ship. Many reasons. I maintain many, not all, of the players Snyder gets from JC had recruiting contact from KSU out of high school, but for various reasons go to JC. I don't ever recall or know if there is a prep school in that area , but the intent is the same, keep them close, watch them develop.
I feel that JC's are ok, but I think it represents a failure in recruiting and selling the school to high school kids, it represents a stop-gap measure, which after 4? years might represent a problem. If KSU blueprint is the way to go, more programs would go that way
 
richard levy said:
Jordan Rogers at Vandy, Aaron's brother, or you could use Aaron. Both went to JC because of size and lightly recruited, they were both academically sound, so play against better comp and then score a D1 ship. Many reasons. I maintain many, not all, of the players Snyder gets from JC had recruiting contact from KSU out of high school, but for various reasons go to JC. I don't ever recall or know if there is a prep school in that area , but the intent is the same, keep them close, watch them develop.
I feel that JC's are ok, but I think it represents a failure in recruiting and selling the school to high school kids, it represents a stop-gap measure, which after 4? years might represent a problem. If KSU blueprint is the way to go, more programs would go that way
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I'm pretty sure the staff doesn't care what you think, especially since you don't know what's going on behind the scenes.
 
richard levy said:
does the "lighten up francis" quote apply here.
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No. Pay attention to my previous posts where I explained the whole situation of having kids leave early, transfer out, and leave us in a tough spot. I'm not going to retype the whole thing but this isn't our strategy recruiting. We were going to have a small class this year so we went after a lot of top recruits and got a lot of the guys we wanted. We start recruiting kids as juniors, so when someone leaves in the fall that forces us to look elsewhere as a lot of kids were no longer targets. Another aspect is if a kid can step up during the season.
 
bnoro said:
No. Pay attention to my previous posts where I explained the whole situation of having kids leave early, transfer out, and leave us in a tough spot. I'm not going to retype the whole thing but this isn't our strategy recruiting. We were going to have a small class this year so we went after a lot of top recruits and got a lot of the guys we wanted. We start recruiting kids as juniors, so when someone leaves in the fall that forces us to look elsewhere as a lot of kids were no longer targets. Another aspect is if a kid can step up during the season.
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I am forever humbled for expressing my opinion on a fan forum. I don't have quite the amount of time as some people who have over 2000 posts in roughly the same time that I have 54, to read every one of you posts. I will try to do better
 
richard levy said:
I am forever humbled for expressing my opinion on a fan forum. I don't have quite the amount of time as some people who have over 2000 posts in roughly the same time that I have 54, to read every one of you posts. I will try to do better
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Don't take it personally and please continue to post. He has good information but because of that he seems to think it's okay to act like an @ss to people who aren't in the know.
 
richard levy said:
Jordan Rogers at Vandy, Aaron's brother, or you could use Aaron. Both went to JC because of size and lightly recruited, they were both academically sound, so play against better comp and then score a D1 ship. Many reasons. I maintain many, not all, of the players Snyder gets from JC had recruiting contact from KSU out of high school, but for various reasons go to JC. I don't ever recall or know if there is a prep school in that area , but the intent is the same, keep them close, watch them develop.
I feel that JC's are ok, but I think it represents a failure in recruiting and selling the school to high school kids, it represents a stop-gap measure, which after 4? years might represent a problem. If KSU blueprint is the way to go, more programs would go that way
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In the case of KSU their acceptance rate is in excess of 95%, you would have to be dumber than a bag of hammers to not get accepted quite honestly. That is a poking point of others in the Big12 at what a joke KSU admissions are. It has nothing to do with selling a program at that point ... if a kid goes JUCO its because he didn't get attention from D1 schools and wants to score a scholarship or they don't make the grade and its the best option they have. If they aren't going to KSU and going to JUCO its grades ... grades and more grades because their acceptance rate is a joke ... JUCOs serve many purposes and if they get their academics in order can help programs across the country. There are many high school kids SU could still pursue but the JUCOs help to fill immediate needs ... plus there are still kids we are involved with.

Any kid that transfers could be looked at in the same light ... Sims transferred from Alabama ... do we see it as him not staying sold on Bama so he transfers? No ... he left for what he felt was a better situation. Look at the Alex Officer situation ... we just pulled the offer and got tired of getting jerked around ... he isn't coming to SU ... does that mean coaches failed to sell the program? No ... the fact is the staff made a significant investment in time and effort to keep a hometown kid home and he was dead set on leaving town. That shouldn't be seen as a reflection on the sales job the staff is pitching. IMHO we are delving into new territories that we don't normally nab recruits from .. Allen in Texas and some of these GA kids ... that tells me they can sell the program and that these JUCOs are seen as being able to help the program immediately because of their skill and because of immediate need due to attrition. Not sure you can gleam much more than that from our situation honestly.
 
bnoro said:
No. Pay attention to my previous posts where I explained the whole situation of having kids leave early, transfer out, and leave us in a tough spot. I'm not going to retype the whole thing but this isn't our strategy recruiting. We were going to have a small class this year so we went after a lot of top recruits and got a lot of the guys we wanted. We start recruiting kids as juniors, so when someone leaves in the fall that forces us to look elsewhere as a lot of kids were no longer targets. Another aspect is if a kid can step up during the season.
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This is being overplayed.

LB...nothing new.

We are losing ONE LT likely early. What happens if he goes down to injury as football players do?

S is the one - one - position where this is legit. And recruiting wise, this represents 1 of the 6 JUCOs.

All this JUCO shopping could be looked at as opportunistic...but also desperate as seeds planted for some time are not being reaped in a small class.
 
MadNY3 said:
This is being overplayed.

LB...nothing new.

We are losing ONE LT likely early. What happens if he goes down to injury as football players do?

S is the one - one - position where this is legit. And recruiting wise, this represents 1 of the 6 JUCOs.

All this JUCO shopping could be looked at as opportunistic...but also desperate as seeds planted for some time are not being reaped in a small class.
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MLB too. Coker's inability to grasp the system cost us greatly, and we still haven't been able to fill Cater's spot. You're also forgetting about Kris Curtis, who is done for his career. So that's 2 tackles down. Then add a guard for Ben Barrett (scholarship player even if people think it was nepotism) and two Safeties for Mungwa and Ford. I think we would have recruited 1 or 2 JUCO's without the defections, but with that we're going to end up with more. Sign a few extras in case one or two don't pan out for backup.
 
bnoro said:
MLB too. Coker's inability to grasp the system cost us greatly, and we still haven't been able to fill Cater's spot. You're also forgetting about Kris Curtis, who is done for his career. So that's 2 tackles down. Then add a guard for Ben Barrett (scholarship player even if people think it was nepotism) and two Safeties for Mungwa and Ford. I think we would have recruited 1 or 2 JUCO's without the defections, but with that we're going to end up with more. Sign a few extras in case one or two don't pan out for backup.
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Also I'll add the OL and especially Tackle spot takes some time to develop so we are actually recruiting more for Hickey, Andy Phillips, and obviously Curtis' replacements more so than just Pugh's. Obviously any high school guys will take some time and we struck out with our top OL guys so it's even more important that we hit the JC's but even if we bring in a JC tackle he'll prob have 3 to play 2 so a possible red shirt will be likely barring injuries.
 
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