Lydon ... He NOT Gone

[HtownOrange]

I'm not picking on you at all but it just seems like in most cases that when an African American player is looking to leave early "they need money" but every Caucasian player "has a great family structure".

What evidence do we pull this information from?

The comments people on this board posted about what a great family he had after they met his family.

Why would it matter to you why I think something? I think DC2 has a good family supporting him but he is not the topic of this thread. Does that change your calculus?

 

[two3zone]

The comments people on this board posted about what a great family he had after they met his family.

Why would it matter to you why I think something? I think DC2 has a good family supporting him but he is not the topic of this thread. Does that change your calculus?

Who doesn't have strong family support? I'm curious, maybe Francis can start tracking this so we only get kids that are supported by their families.

 

[LennX6]

So Jeremy Grant would have been better than he is now if he stayed in school?

So instead of being able to practice with no limits with state of the art facilities and the best coaching he'd be better off in Syracuse taking Swahili and the other distractions of being a college student?


Jeremi Grant is a millionaire who plays solid minutes in the best basketball league in the world.

The NBA environment kills me. If you aren't Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson, you suck. IMO If you leave early and you get a paycheck for 3 years in the league, you have made a great decision. That is a tremendous accomplishment, something under .1% of the US can say they do. 95% of the NBA roster are players that message boards call "failures".

 

[two3zone]

The NBA environment kills me. If you aren't Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson, you suck. IMO If you leave early and you get a paycheck for 3 years in the league, you have made a great decision. That is a tremendous accomplishment, something under .1% of the US can say they do. 95% of the NBA roster are players that message boards call "failures".

I look at it this way as well. What scarier is that ONLY 1.7 percent of NCAA college basketball players play in the NBA.

People can say what they want about any of our guys who left early and went pro but every single one of them is cashing a pro paycheck somewhere in this world making money playing the game they love and dedicated their life to. Can't fault them for that.

 

[HtownOrange]

Who doesn't have strong family support? I'm curious, maybe Francis can start tracking this so we only get kids that are supported by their families.

If you want, go for it. I merely opined regarding one player and you have gone off on some wild tangent about tracking playes' families. Good for you.

My comment was made based on the comments of fellow Orange fans from this board posting their unsolicited opinions regarding one kid's family. If I am wrong, my apologies to everyone. However, I never made a suggestion to track families or gauge family support, that is wholly your suggestion.

To be clear, I have not met Lydon's or any other Syracuse players' families. My comment was based on what I read on this site by fellow Orange fans. If you choose to make more of it than I posted that is on you.

We now return you back to your regularly scheduled Orange thread.

 

[Briancuse]

The NBA environment kills me. If you aren't Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson, you suck. IMO If you leave early and you get a paycheck for 3 years in the league, you have made a great decision. That is a tremendous accomplishment, something under .1% of the US can say they do. 95% of the NBA roster are players that message boards call "failures".

Here is the thing, you aren't comparing them to what other people do in life, you are comparing them to other basketball players.

 

[Jake]

You don't think that maybe he had a promise to get drafted with a contract? McAdoo stayed around with the same mentality as you, he was probably a first round pick at one point, think he made the right decision? How'd that work out for him? Grant is a millionaire in his early 20s, cite his contract that's fine but don't try to get away from the facts. He'll also be getting that fat bonus check from the Sixers for being under the salary floor. There's more risk to stay than there is to leave, you need to improve far more than you think to improve your draft stock from a second rounder to a lottery pick.

Grant got very lucky. Lots of those promises are broken. Ask Tyler Ennis. And if I recall, Grant was telling people that he was told he would be a lottery pick. The lies told to these kids are mind boggling.

The draft isn't really a draft anymore. It's a leverage game. Good Agents, owners, and the absolute best players have it. Marginal first rounders and newbie agents have none. Zippo. Nada. Once they put their name in the draft, players are like leafs blowing in the wind.

JB advises marginal first / second rounders to stay. He sees it as a mutual benefit move. He gets the player for another year,and the player gains draft LEVERAGE to get guaranteed money.

I don't think JB has advised a single kid that ended up in the lottery to stay.

 

[wallacecuse]

Grant got very lucky. Lots of those promises are broken. Ask Tyler Ennis. And if I recall, Grant was telling people that he was told he would be a lottery pick. The lies told to these kids are mind boggling.

The draft isn't really a draft anymore. It's a leverage game. Good Agents, owners, and the absolute best players have it. Marginal first rounders and newbie agents have none. Zippo. Nada. Once they put their name in the draft, players are like leafs blowing in the wind.

JB advises marginal first / second rounders to stay. He sees it as a mutual benefit move. He gets the player for another year,and the player gains draft LEVERAGE to get guaranteed money.

I don't think JB has advised a single kid that ended up in the lottery to stay.

Every year, 40 kids are told they will be lottery picks.

 

[tbonezone]

next year the return of rico. bigger. thicker .badder.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I wouldn't take anything TL said last night as the truth. Maybe he does come back, but he'd be silly to not declare. And once he's measured, teams can see his athleticism and shooting stroke, it wouldn't shock me if he got a top 20 guarantee. He's a better prospect than McCullough was last year IMO.

His "I plan on staying" isn't exactly encouraging anyhow. It all comes down to what info he gets and after he declares, how well he performs in the combine and in workouts. He may very well be planning to come back but that doesn't mean he won't end up leaving.

I hate being so jaded about this whole process. It just seems our non-lottery picks leave the first chance they get more than any other program.

why would he be silly not to declare? if he has no intention of going let him concentrate on other things.

maybe staying in school means more to him than people believe. you never get those years back and maybe hes one of those old souls that really feels that way

 

[TheCusian]

We come at these arguments as "agents and family" are in a kids ear to leave (biased in favor of leaving)...

But we have been fans of Syracuse basketball for 25-40+ years and fans of Richardson's or Lydon's for 2. As fans we are naturally and rightfully biased in favor of the teams success over the players.

I'm constantly trying to check myself -balancing what I want for the team, what I know about a kids future (with like 10% of the info) - and the feeling is imagine having as the kids Dad.

It's really hard to judge fairly.

 

[Ward]

He's in the d-league right now.

LOL, the audacity in how this was posted while he literally was playing in an NBA game when you posted this and had 7 points, 8 assists, and 4 rebounds is hilarious.

 

[Ward]

He had a promise to be drafted IN THE SECOND ROUND?!

No. No he didn't.

McAdoo is making right in the same ballpark as Grant is this season and is playing minutes for the world champions. We'll see what happens with each's career archs. Rooting for Jerami and think he's got a chance, but he didn't help himself leaving too early.

The thing with this though is that after McAdoo's freshman year he was pretty much a lock to be a top 10 pick if not top 5, which is a much different pay day than he ended up with. Heck, even after his sophomore year he was pretty much a lock to still be in the lottery but decided to go back to school AGAIN only to fall out of the draft entirely.

Personally, and not saying you are doing this, I think it's very difficult to paint every situation with a broad brush. There no doubt are guys who left too early and it cost them just like there are guys who stayed and cost themselves millions. I'm a believer that if my stock is inflated I'd rather have people find out I'm not as good as they thought while I'm being paid millions rather than the alternative.

 

[kirbivore]

The thing with this though is that after McAdoo's freshman year he was pretty much a lock to be a top 10 pick if not top 5, which is a much different pay day than he ended up with. Heck, even after his sophomore year he was pretty much a lock to still be in the lottery but decided to go back to school AGAIN only to fall out of the draft entirely.

Personally, and not saying you are doing this, I think it's very difficult to paint every situation with a broad brush. There no doubt are guys who left too early and it cost them just like there are guys who stayed and cost themselves millions. I'm a believer that if my stock is inflated I'd rather have people find out I'm not as good as they thought while I'm being paid millions rather than the alternative.

I agree. If you in a position to trick GM's you do it.

 

[andyw715]

I think the change in rules by allowing someone to test the waters is great. The athletes should be able to have informed options available to them.

But I wonder if an unintended consequence exists where more will leave? Since it isn't a college-career ending move anymore , it would almost be a disservice to yourself if you didn't try it out (unless you just really love the college game).

So will more athletes try out (those that didn't think they were a sure thing) and leave, or will it limit the number of them leaving.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I think athletes should be appointed a third party representative. Take some money from the NBA and NCAA and set up an impartial board of evaluators. The fact that these kids can't get someone independently who can advocate on their behalf is ridiculous. 18-20 year old kids, worth quite a bit of money are stuck between a college basketball coach who wants them to stay and play for him - for free - and the NBA agents who want him to go get paid, anything, so he can get paid.

 

[Jasoncuse]

why would he be silly not to declare? if he has no intention of going let him concentrate on other things.

maybe staying in school means more to him than people believe. you never get those years back and maybe hes one of those old souls that really feels that way

Oh that's a possibility for sure. If he doesn't even want to consider leaving, great. There'd be no need to declare and go through the process. But I'd have to imagine, it'd be best for him and his family to go through the process and get a feel for where he's at and where he needs to improve.

 

[FrancoPizza]

It's too bad they don't emphasize m2m skills in the combine... we'd get everyone back every year.

 

[Dave85]

He'll go to the workouts and get humbled

This is probably the best post on the thread. MR has been pretty good but the hair needs to be an inch or 2 higher before he's ready for the NBA.

 

[Dave85]

It's too bad they don't emphasize m2m skills in the combine... we'd get everyone back every year.

Oregon should have played the 2-3 zone.

 

[kirbivore]

I think athletes should be appointed a third party representative. Take some money from the NBA and NCAA and set up an impartial board of evaluators. The fact that these kids can't get someone independently who can advocate on their behalf is ridiculous. 18-20 year old kids, worth quite a bit of money are stuck between a college basketball coach who wants them to stay and play for him - for free - and the NBA agents who want him to go get paid, anything, so he can get paid.