Malachi - Trust the Process Young Man

[RF2044]

Tyus Battle is a def lottery pick now because he stayed this year, right?

Tyus Battle wouldn't have been a lottery pick as a freshman. Leaving early in and of itself doesn't make a prospect a lottery pick.

He came back this past offseason because he got a tepid response from the NBA evaluation committee, who told him that he needed to refine his skill set. He has to some degree -- with the improved passing, improved facilitating of team sets, and with improved mid range shooting. Still has the hitch in his shot, though, and his three point % hasn't been impressive.

Where he ends up being drafted if he indeed leaves this offseason will be based upon how the rest of this season unfolds [i.e,. does his stock get a "boost" if we make a deep post-season run?], and whether teams will be skeptical of his 3-and-D potential because of his lackluster 3P%.

 

[bpo57]

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And that's the danger of picking someone based solely on their NCAAT performance. Not that I blame Malachi - strike when the iron is hot. The scouts should know better.

The scouts loved his measurables. I think most of us that follow SU knew he was a long shot.

 

[bpo57]

Tyus Battle wouldn't have been a lottery pick as a freshman. Leaving early in and of itself doesn't make a prospect a lottery pick.

He came back this past offseason because he got a tepid response from the NBA evaluation committee, who told him that he needed to refine his skill set. He has to some degree -- with the improved passing, improved facilitating of team sets, and with improved mid range shooting. Still has the hitch in his shot, though, and his three point % hasn't been impressive.

Where he ends up being drafted if he indeed leaves this offseason will be based upon how the rest of this season unfolds [i.e,. does his stock get a "boost" if we make a deep post-season run?], and whether teams will be skeptical of his 3-and-D potential because of his lackluster 3P%.

I think that's a fair assessment. I do think he has improved from last year and that he made the right decision.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

College won't develop your game more than playing against pro's will. Most, if not all, of the guys listed have made more money already than 90% of people will make in a lifetime. All of those guys were physically ready for the NBA. It's not the NFL. Another year of college won't make you run faster or jump higher.

You had a great argument right up until the end. The NFL could absolutely take some guys after 1 year of college. And being in college can absolutely help you run faster and jump higher. Why would you say it doesn't?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Probably won't happen but Malachi would crush it on Boeheim's army.

 

[bpo57]

Probably won't happen but Malachi would crush it on Boeheim's army.

Summer of 2020.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Understood but Tyus basically hit his ceiling as a sophomore. He is strong and athletic and really can't improve much more at Cuse. He is basically the same guy he was last year. Ennis on the other hand looked like a teenager. He needed to get stronger and improve his shot, as small guys without an outside shot don't last in the league. Lydon similarly did not have the body of an nba player plus he had not developed a low post game. I think they would have had a better chance to stay in the league had they been more physically ready and polished.
Dion on the other hand was somewhat raw but physically ready. Like a different species that Ennis.

Tyus has already shown improvement this season alone by handling the ball much more than he did previously in college.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Malachi wasn’t drafted solely on 20 minutes against UVA or his NCAAT performance. He averaged 14 ppg in ACC play on 42% from 3. He had a good freshman season. He also shot very well at the combine and had great measureables-7 ft wingspan. Malachi had what the NBA values, length and shooting, and seemed like a good fit for the league.

Tyler Ennis was drafted because of that shot against Pitt #facts.

NBA teams have millions to throw at scouting and can find anyone who can play ball literally anywhere in the planet. But also GMs just draft kids based on watching ten minutes of March Madness once a year.

 

[RF2044]

I think that's a fair assessment. I do think he has improved from last year and that he made the right decision.

Agree --which is why returning was a good move.

Will it be good enough to move him into the first round? Stay tuned.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

The scouts loved his measurables. I think most of us that follow SU knew he was a long shot.

Most kids are. A lot of people felt that way about Jerami Grant too.

 

[Brooky03]

You had a great argument right up until the end. The NFL could absolutely take some guys after 1 year of college. And being in college can absolutely help you run faster and jump higher. Why would you say it doesn't?

A guy with a 40 inch vertical in the NBA combine probably had a 38 inch vertical as a senior in high school. A guy with a 4.5 40yd dash probably ran a 4.56 as a senior in high school.

There are exceptions, but jumping and running are usually only marginally improved after a guy turns 18 or 19 because guys good enough to play D1 are so close to the 'limit' at that point.

Strength and size are the difference makers. You can avoid contact to a degree in the NBA. You can't avoid contact in the NFL. So a basketball player with work to do in the weight room will have a better chance against pro's than a football player who would get physically dominated and not hold up for a season.

 

[bpo57]

Most kids are. A lot of people felt that way about Jerami Grant too.

Most of us knew MR was a long shot even tho he was drafted in the 1st round. I live 10 miles from where he played HS ball. Watched him several times. He's ok but never should have been drafted that highly - I don't think he's long for the NBA.

Grant had much more athleticism plus bloodlines hard to duplicate.

 

[SUFan44]

Agree --which is why returning was a good move.

Will it be good enough to move him into the first round? Stay tuned.

Honestly, would love to see Tyus shifted to full-time point guard and let him audition at that position next year. I think that's really the best way for him to get to the first round.

Know we have a glut of guards this coming class if he stays (Battle, Boeheim, Carey, Goodine, Girard), but the program would be better off for it and Tyus might be too.

That being said, it ain't happening.

 

[NYCorange]

Honestly, would love to see Tyus shifted to full-time point guard and let him audition at that position next year. I think that's really the best way for him to get to the first round.

Know we have a glut of guards this coming class if he stays (Battle, Boeheim, Carey, Goodine, Girard), but the program would be better off for it and Tyus might be too.

That being said, it ain't happening.

Honestly, would love to see Tyus shifted to full-time point guard and let him audition at that position next year. I think that's really the best way for him to get to the first round.

Know we have a glut of guards this coming class if he stays (Battle, Boeheim, Carey, Goodine, Girard), but the program would be better off for it and Tyus might be too.

That being said, it ain't happening.

Tyus may come back. But him playing PG is not his future in the NBA. He'll never be a even half-way decent NBA pg. His future is as an athletic 3-D wing. Whether he's got the ability to really make it, idk, but I feel better about his potential compared to most of the other recent SU draftees. He'll come in with a chance to make an immediate difference.

 

[50YRsofCuse]

I think that this could be reflective of the quality of players SU has been getting recently.

Then again, SU has never really produced a lot of NBA players with staying power. There are only 10 SU players who have eclipsed 500 NBA games played, similar to MSU. UK is up near 30 players, and KU has 22.

How many of those Kentucky players lasted more than 1 year in college at Kentucky?

 

[RF2044]

Honestly, would love to see Tyus shifted to full-time point guard and let him audition at that position next year. I think that's really the best way for him to get to the first round.

Know we have a glut of guards this coming class if he stays (Battle, Boeheim, Carey, Goodine, Girard), but the program would be better off for it and Tyus might be too.

That being said, it ain't happening.

Maybe the coaching staff will sell him on the prospect of having a Michael Gbinije type of senior year, catapulting him into NBA draft contention.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah, you know, when guys stayed longer, guys still washed out early from the NBA. It's weird.

Lawrence Moten lasted 3 years.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Lawrence Moten lasted 3 years.

Lies.

 

[pfister1]

Honestly, would love to see Tyus shifted to full-time point guard and let him audition at that position next year. I think that's really the best way for him to get to the first round.

Know we have a glut of guards this coming class if he stays (Battle, Boeheim, Carey, Goodine, Girard), but the program would be better off for it and Tyus might be too.

That being said, it ain't happening.

I would love to see Tyus get drafted and love to have him back next year, but not if it's only so he can play the point guard position. We need a point guard, not someone who is playing a position that is not his best so that he can audition for the league. I'm tired of being mediocre. I want to do whatever gives us the best chance to win. If that gets Tyus drafted great, if not then I'd prefer to win.

 

[OrangeDW]

When will these guys realize the goal should be to leave when you are ready so you can stick in the nba and not merely get drafted for short money and be out of the league in 2-3 years? As Coack K once said, it is about getting the second contract not the first. Just ask:
Donte Green
Tyler Ennis
Chris Mccullough
Malachi
Tyler Lydon

Did anyone on this board think any of these guys were physically ready for the NBA? I know the NBA drafts on potential but you have to be somewhat athletically ready.
In case anyone thinks I missed Flynn, he was ready physically. He just got unlucky with injuries.

Lydon’s at least been getting into most of their games for the last month. Not much time, but at least he’s on the team and getting in some. He’s on one of the best teams in the league. He might be ok.

Do people still think Greene would’ve magically become a good defender who did more than chuck 3’s if he stayed? He did well to actually get playing time in the NBA for a few years. An injury took him out too.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

A guy with a 40 inch vertical in the NBA combine probably had a 38 inch vertical as a senior in high school. A guy with a 4.5 40yd dash probably ran a 4.56 as a senior in high school.

There are exceptions, but jumping and running are usually only marginally improved after a guy turns 18 or 19 because guys good enough to play D1 are so close to the 'limit' at that point.

Strength and size are the difference makers. You can avoid contact to a degree in the NBA. You can't avoid contact in the NFL. So a basketball player with work to do in the weight room will have a better chance against pro's than a football player who would get physically dominated and not hold up for a season.

Since neither of us can prove our case, I'm guessing there isn't much value in arguing the point. And I say that after a single year of life on campus, you'd probably be closer to correct. But knowing the facilities and training staffs the school have, a kid who stays for a while can improve immensely in both speed and vertical, as well as strength, etc.

And the only way I see to avoid contact in the NBA is to play in the G league. I find the whole argument about the NFL and size/strength to be absolute bunk. Nonsense.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Lydon’s at least been getting into most of their games for the last month. Not much time, but at least he’s on the team and getting in some. He’s on one of the best teams in the league. He might be ok.

Do people still think Greene would’ve magically become a good defender who did more than chuck 3’s if he stayed? He did well to actually get playing time in the NBA for a few years. An injury took him out too.

Greene was a chucker. There was zero improvement in him from the time he left college until he joined Boeheims Army. I don’t think it was a coincidence Syracuse was better the year after he left.

 

[OrangeDW]

Greene was a chucker. There was zero improvement in him from the time he left college until he joined Boeheims Army. I don’t think it was a coincidence Syracuse was better the year after he left.

Yup. Seemed like a really nice kid. Very likable. But I really didn’t enjoy his game. Very hard to like.

He put up impressive PPG totals for a freshman. When he was hot, he was really hot and with his height he could get them off easily. There just wasn’t much else there besides hitting 3’s and having impressive height and pretty good athleticism. No handle, no off the dribble game, no post game, poor shot selection, no defense.

He was like a poor man’s Nick Young.

 

[Brooky03]

Since neither of us can prove our case, I'm guessing there isn't much value in arguing the point. And I say that after a single year of life on campus, you'd probably be closer to correct. But knowing the facilities and training staffs the school have, a kid who stays for a while can improve immensely in both speed and vertical, as well as strength, etc.

And the only way I see to avoid contact in the NBA is to play in the G league. I find the whole argument about the NFL and size/strength to be absolute bunk. Nonsense.

Fast twitch muscle is hard to build and quickly reaches the point of diminishing returns. There's a reason you don't see skill players in college get appreciably faster in 3 or 4 years. Jerami Grant could stick his elbow in the rim as a 17 year old. Now, he could probably get his bicep partially in there. Not a big difference.

As much as the NBA players like to make it sound like basketball is a contact game, it's not. Not like football, at least. Freshman Leonard Fournette would have died in the NFL despite being a big kid. Comparatively, Kobe and hundreds of other NBA players straight out of HS or OAD did just fine in the pros.

Regardless, a full time strength and conditioning program as a professional will trump part time workouts as a college athlete.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Regardless, a full time strength and conditioning program as a professional will trump part time workouts as a college athlete.

This assumes of course that the player sticks with the NBA team and doesn't get sent down to the G league. I wonder what's better in terms of strength and conditioning - high D1 college or the G league.