Marinatto out as BE commish

[Stern]

They replaced DUMB with DUMBER! Joe Bailey is the guy who led the once proud Dolphins into the Cam (1-15) Cameron era and then into the Nick "Culpepper over Brees" Saban train-wreck. Drove them right into the ground with poor decision after poor decision.

Joe Bailey is beyond horrible and well is probably a perfect fit for this dead conference!

 

[billsin01]

It's an interesting take and one that people shouldn't dismiss. The hoops schools can claim that for 20+ years they've accommodated the football schools at every turn, and all it's led to is every single original football school leaving the conference (aside from Rutgers, ha!) and having the league now be in worse shape today than ever before.

I'll take a look at it from another perspective -- Is it possible that Marinatto and Tranghese did a pretty good job overall?

I mean, once the decision is made on Penn State, this conference's football fate was more or less sealed. They made a pretty nice play to add Va Tech when they did as well as lure Miami in for a bit to add some serious credibility to the football conference. But they were left with an unbalanced league in a world that was quickly becoming dominated by football. So they get raided by the ACC, which one could argue was unavoidable since they had a much better geographical footprint for two of the schools and an a$$load more coin to offer. But even then the replacements were pretty decent (l'ville/usf/cincy) and UConn and RU made good strides as well.

And they did all this while maintaining a basketball conference that is truly remarkable -- the equivalent of SEC football.

At the end of the day they were undone by two things they couldn't really control:

1) the shifting trend towards football as a huge cash cow (potentially) while being a conference in an area that simply isn't that football crazy.

and

2) no one cares about uconn/ru/su/pitt football. They simply don't.

 

[billsin01]

It amazes me how learned people, some of them of the cloth, can so brazenly dispute logical revenue distribution, just to try and cover their own asses.

What does being "men of the cloth" have to do with anything? They're still school presidents and their role is to look out for the best interests of their respective institutions. It should be shocking to no one that everyone is looking to get theirs.

Of course, it also shouldn't be shocking when you look at the church's history when money and/or power are motivating factors.

 

[kingottoiii]

I'll take a look at it from another perspective -- Is it possible that Marinatto and Tranghese did a pretty good job overall?

Um no. The fact that they weren't forward thinking and trying to expand, even if it was just keeping Temple while adding Louisville, Cincy, and USF. The fact that they didn't listen to Miami and their master plan was to merge with ACC FB. The fact that they couldn't get more TV money with Miami, VT, and BC. That all equals suck.

The key to the ACC raid was getting Miami. The same could have been if the BE went hard after FSU. Why not take FSU, Clemson, ECU, and offer Temple all sports or nothing?

South: FSU, Clemson, ECU, VT, Temple, RU
North: Miami, WV, Pitt, UConn, SU, BC

That would have given the BE 12 FB and 18 BBall schools. It also would have given the BE a D1A FB team in all but MD and GA on the East coast.

BTW that would have left the ACC at 7 teams with no one to really add. Maybe Louisville.

 

[Scooch]

I'll take a look at it from another perspective -- Is it possible that Marinatto and Tranghese did a pretty good job overall?

I mean, once the decision is made on Penn State, this conference's football fate was more or less sealed. They made a pretty nice play to add Va Tech when they did as well as lure Miami in for a bit to add some serious credibility to the football conference. But they were left with an unbalanced league in a world that was quickly becoming dominated by football. So they get raided by the ACC, which one could argue was unavoidable since they had a much better geographical footprint for two of the schools and an a$$load more coin to offer. But even then the replacements were pretty decent (l'ville/usf/cincy) and UConn and RU made good strides as well.

And they did all this while maintaining a basketball conference that is truly remarkable -- the equivalent of SEC football.

At the end of the day they were undone by two things they couldn't really control:

1) the shifting trend towards football as a huge cash cow (potentially) while being a conference in an area that simply isn't that football crazy.

and

2) no one cares about uconn/ru/su/pitt football. They simply don't.

I don't disagree with any of this. And that's why I've never gone in for the venom directed at Tranghese or Marinatto. They got dealt a bad hand, and had to deal with a delusional membership to boot. I do think that at a few fleeting times the BE had a small window to be proactive and innovative and ensure the viability of the league, but the membership wasn't interested, and the Commissioners weren't hired to pull that off anyway.

 

[Scooch]

Um no. The fact that they weren't forward thinking and trying to expand, even if it was just keeping Temple while adding Louisville, Cincy, and USF. The fact that they didn't listen to Miami and their master plan was to merge with ACC FB. The fact that they couldn't get more TV money with Miami, VT, and BC. That all equals suck.

Keeping Temple, the worst D1-A program in America at the time? Just "get more" money from TV? Listen to Miami? What was that master plan exactly? There are many valid criticisms, but these are not valid criticisms.

 

[Madbiker]

I'll take a look at it from another perspective -- Is it possible that Marinatto and Tranghese did a pretty good job overall?

I mean, once the decision is made on Penn State, this conference's football fate was more or less sealed. They made a pretty nice play to add Va Tech when they did as well as lure Miami in for a bit to add some serious credibility to the football conference. But they were left with an unbalanced league in a world that was quickly becoming dominated by football. So they get raided by the ACC, which one could argue was unavoidable since they had a much better geographical footprint for two of the schools and an a$$load more coin to offer. But even then the replacements were pretty decent (l'ville/usf/cincy) and UConn and RU made good strides as well.

And they did all this while maintaining a basketball conference that is truly remarkable -- the equivalent of SEC football.

At the end of the day they were undone by two things they couldn't really control:

1) the shifting trend towards football as a huge cash cow (potentially) while being a conference in an area that simply isn't that football crazy.

and

2) no one cares about uconn/ru/su/pitt football. They simply don't.

Had Tranghese understood the football landscape the Big East should have eaten the ACC not the other way around. The BE had the better on field and had the better media markets. Miami was top 4 every year, BC was strong, VaTech was a developing power, and SU and Pitt had some good years while the ACC was basically Florida St. That the BE media contract was half the ACC tells you how badly the conference was run. MT paid no attention to football and didn't even realize what they had.

 

[Townie72]

I don't disagree with any of this. And that's why I've never gone in for the venom directed at Tranghese or Marinatto. They got dealt a bad hand, and had to deal with a delusional membership to boot. I do think that at a few fleeting times the BE had a small window to be proactive and innovative and ensure the viability of the league, but the membership wasn't interested, and the Commissioners weren't hired to pull that off anyway.

Abso ---goddamn---lutely. Neither Tranghese or Marinatto were geniuses. But it wouldn't have mattered. They just didn't have the cards necessary to play.

The only possible strategy was to be super aggressive. But the Presidents weren't going to support that. (As you say)

 

[billsin01]

Keeping Temple, the worst D1-A program in America at the time? Just "get more" money from TV? Listen to Miami? What was that master plan exactly? There are many valid criticisms, but these are not valid criticisms.

Yeah, I'm not pretending to know (or for that matter really care) the particulars about how this all played out but there is nothing in this post that makes me feel as if my original post was off base. Letting temple go made zero difference even today. Does anyone really actually know how the TV deal went down?

 

[Townie72]

Had Tranghese understood the football landscape the Big East should have eaten the ACC not the other way around. The BE had the better on field and had the better media markets. Miami was top 4 every year, BC was strong, VaTech was a developing power, and SU and Pitt had some good years while the ACC was basically Florida St. That the BE media contract was half the ACC tells you how badly the conference was run. MT paid no attention to football and didn't even realize what they had.

That is 20-20 hindsight.

But it's not that the Big East was run better. It's that while the Big East was playing "small ball", the ACC management was thinking "Global Warfare"

Swofford introduced business aggressive business tactics to a world in which this sort of thing was unthinkable. He broke the mold. He was the Robert E. Lee of conference management.

 

[billsin01]

Had Tranghese understood the football landscape the Big East should have eaten the ACC not the other way around. The BE had the better on field and had the better media markets. Miami was top 4 every year, BC was strong, VaTech was a developing power, and SU and Pitt had some good years while the ACC was basically Florida St. That the BE media contract was half the ACC tells you how badly the conference was run. MT paid no attention to football and didn't even realize what they had.

You may be right but couldn't it be that moving decidedly in the direction of football was near impossible given the strength of the basketball members (even those that also field FB teams)? And I don't know who should have eaten whom, but I sincerely doubt the BE shakes anyone loose from the ACC. Maybe a shot with FSU and Maryland if they were really, really aggressive? But UMD considers itself southern and a key member of the ACC. All the carolina and VA schools are no-gos. I just don't know how realistic it was from either side -- shaking up the ACC and/or getting the whole conference to support a super aggressive football push.

I could be wrong, I just think the BE was a conference without too many compelling football teams at a time when football is king.

 

[kingottoiii]

Keeping Temple, the worst D1-A program in America at the time? Just "get more" money from TV? Listen to Miami? What was that master plan exactly? There are many valid criticisms, but these are not valid criticisms.

How was a worse conference in FB both in terms of competition and markets able to make more money? Sorry but that is a fail.

 

[Scooch]

How was a worse conference in FB both in terms of competition and markets able to make more money? Sorry but that is a fail.

Do I have to review the concept that "markets" are worthless without fans in them?

 

[sufan]

How on God's green earth could this conference need a consultant to assist with strategy NOW?!?!

They've just spent the past 2 years acting (adding TCU, declining a media contract) and reacting (replacing SU, Pitt & WVU with Boise St, UCF, SMU, SD State, Houston, others that I can't even remember now) but NOW they need to develop a strategy? What script have they been working from for the past 2 years?!

Marinatto is a scape goat. This conference has the absolute worst membership of any "major" college conference.

----------------------
Exactly: which raises the question: what is this about?

ND was chair of the expansion committee. It seems obvious: 1) the remaining football and BB schools signed on to the decision to add all these new schools and 2) stay together; and Marinatto accomplished these agreed on goals.


Presumably they consulted with media consultants as to potential revenue of adding these new teams versus another strategy, whatever that might be, before Marinatto executed the strategy.

 

[zls44]

What does being "men of the cloth" have to do with anything?

Just another way to magnify their ridiculous stance. I didn't need another way to take a shot at them, but take them while you can, you know?

 

[zls44]

I think the biggest/easiest indictment of Providence/BB-onlies is the fact that this topic, on their message board, involving someone who was directly tied to their school, whose entire lineage is tied to their school...has two pages of posts, and none since 4:30 yesterday afternoon.

Man, are they irrelevant.

 

[tipphill]

They replaced DUMB with DUMBER! Joe Bailey is the guy who led the once proud Dolphins into the Cam (1-15) Cameron era and then into the Nick "Culpepper over Brees" Saban train-wreck. Drove them right into the ground with poor decision after poor decision.

Joe Bailey is beyond horrible and well is probably a perfect fit for this dead conference!

it will be pernetti

 

[tipphill]

I don't disagree with any of this. And that's why I've never gone in for the venom directed at Tranghese or Marinatto. They got dealt a bad hand, and had to deal with a delusional membership to boot. I do think that at a few fleeting times the BE had a small window to be proactive and innovative and ensure the viability of the league, but the membership wasn't interested, and the Commissioners weren't hired to pull that off anyway.

the problem was they were not aggressive enough or insightful. they should have tried to be the dealer and maybe the hand would have improved. b'ball was the concern and rome burned

 

[tipphill]

Abso ---goddamn---lutely. Neither Tranghese or Marinatto were geniuses. But it wouldn't have mattered. They just didn't have the cards necessary to play.

The only possible strategy was to be super aggressive. But the Presidents weren't going to support that. (As you say)

unless you could show them the money, and they couldn't---because they didn't see it themselves. except for the ivy league---its all about the money. those two just continued the buffoonery, while swofford saw the future.

 

[SmilinBob]

I don't really know how good of a commish he really was/or could have been but it is quite obvious that the main problem were the basketball school presidents and this stupid split sport thing.

 

[texascpa]

----------------------

ND was chair of the expansion committee.

Which is more support of Marinatto's idiocy. He should have fought that appointment tooth and nail.

 

[SmilinBob]

I really believe there is a lot more to this than a lot of people think and how difficult it was to try to control this mess. To me this job has way too many strings attached and severely limits your options and what you can or can not do. I'm not saying this guy was any kind of genius or anything but there is a lot more to this than a simple we can do this or that.

 

[Townie72]

I don't really know how good of a commish he really was/or could have been but it is quite obvious that the main problem were the basketball school presidents and this stupid split sport thing.

Bob, can you back this up with some concrete examples of how the basketball schools prevented the football schools from doing anything?

Your complaint is frequently voiced on here, but I have never understood it. It seems to me to lack foundation. There seems to be this belief out there that somehow the basketball schools stood in the way of the football schools. Doing what? How? When?

As far as I can tell the basketball schools and the conference acceded to every demand the football schools --- led by SU --- made. The conference added football school after football school. Nobody blocked anything.

If anything, the football schools benefited from the Big East brand that the basketball schools helped create... not vice versa.

Is the idea that freed from the basketball schools the Big East would have been free to do something different? What would that have been? Cockeyed schemes like inviting Maryland? Or Penn State? or the rest of the impractical and unlikely schemes we have seen recommended on this and other forums?

As far as I can tell, a conference with all the football schools would have been worse on the basketball side therefore making it less attractive to new members.

 

[SmilinBob]

75-25%...the split and that quote says a lot to me on how some felt the football schools didn't bring enough to the table. Townie, do you honestly believe that given the different agendas that there was any way this could have succeeded? PSU is a good example and that was the one that hurt the big east right from the beginning, the worry of a football/basketball split and who had the power. From reading a lot of your posts I'm sure you're more in tune with this than I am so I'll defer to you regarding the facts but to deny that the big east schools had different agendas from what I've read is wrong in my opinion.

 

[orange79]

Bob, can you back this up with some concrete examples of how the basketball schools prevented the football schools from doing anything?

Your complaint is frequently voiced on here, but I have never understood it. It seems to me to lack foundation. There seems to be this belief out there that somehow the basketball schools stood in the way of the football schools. Doing what? How? When?

As far as I can tell the basketball schools and the conference acceded to every demand the football schools --- led by SU --- made. The conference added football school after football school. Nobody blocked anything.

If anything, the football schools benefited from the Big East brand that the basketball schools helped create... not vice versa.

Is the idea that freed from the basketball schools the Big East would have been free to do something different? What would that have been? Cockeyed schemes like inviting Maryland? Or Penn State? or the rest of the impractical and unlikely schemes we have seen recommended on this and other forums?

As far as I can tell, a conference with all the football schools would have been worse on the basketball side therefore making it less attractive to new members.

I know you were talking about more recent events, but this does fit your criteria. Didn't the basketball schools torpedo the addition of Penn St. shortly after the league was formed? I know at that point everyone was a basketball school, but until Pitt was added, only SU and BC were D1 football schools. As I recall, PSU received 5 of 8 votes to join, but needed 6. That tells me all 3 FB schools voted for PSU (I assume), and the 5 BB-onlies didn't. Not sure it makes much difference though, I believe PSU would have bolted for the B1G anyway.