Marrone and Rahme are just plain wrong

[Chip]

He was mainly talking I think about Hogue, Merk, Smith

I feel like I've heard that quote more referring to this year than years past, but maybe I was wrong. As Millhouse said, Hogue was at best a backup RB anyway. Smith was already playing D, just moved him from OLB to MLB. Merk had been doing the shuffle but really his only role on offense anyway was go deep.

 

[Avatusstone28]

they weren't explosive last year. 370 yards to 500 yards in a year.

if we could sniff 400 someday that would be nice

http://www.dailymail.com/Sports/WVUSports/201110180155

wvu wr coach agree with me

"The bottom line is, let's get back to reality. Everywhere we've been, this has been the production. We're doing about average for what this system has done, to be honest with you. We need to understand we're not doing anything Superman-like right now. We're on track to have a very good year, but there are a lot of things we're not doing right."

Let's hope that the defense can keep them to "average", or worse.

Does this guy expect his offense to gain 600-700 yards per game?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Getting back to a point Chip made earlier, isn't "our offense is going to be explosive someday" a much harder sell to a recruit than "our offense is explosive now?"

I read on here all the time that Schiano always sells recruits on how great it's going to be at Rutgers in the future. Aren't we pretty much selling the same thing as it relates to our offensive philosophy?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Does this guy expect his offense to gain 600-700 yards per game?

I think they do actually. And know why? 'Cuz video games.

 

[CIL]

I usually stay out of he meathead arguments on this board. I could care less what offense we have as long as it works - this one isn't really working. However, I have a very good feeling as to why it doesn't work - this group of upperclassman at the skill positions do not keep defensive coordinators up at night, period.

Rutgers, USC, and even Tulane highlighted this face by going man press with one single high safety all game long. The only receiver showing any sort of separation skills is a converted safety. Chew has speed, but weighs 165 and can't get off the line. Everyone bitches about the line, well, it's tough to block when you are facing 8 men in the box or the other teams send 7 guys on every passing down knowing your qb has major accuracy issues and your db's can lock up the wr's.

Marrone has some issues, but he's not an idiot. He's trying to sell progress to recruits. He's trying to sell wins to fans. He's not going to openly come out and say my qb is mediocre at best on a good day, I don't have a goddamned WR on this roster outside of a converted safety than can get open against press coverage, or a right tackle that can get out of his own way. There's a reason why Greg ing Paulus was brought in.

We can go spread, watch Nassib throw 30 incompletions and lose by three touchdowns or we can win fugly. My guess is Marrone wants to eat clock and give this team a fighting chance at the end. In fact, I would be willing to bet Doug has said that off the record to a few people.

3 years ago this team had bottom half MAC type talent. Our loss to Akron and struggles at home against Buffalo proves that. Grob was a bad coach, but I don't think Nick Saban could have had gotten more than 5 wins out of those teams. SMU, Hawaii, and Texas Tech had ten times the talent we did, and I would argue still probably do. IB, I love you my brutha but four years ago you were posting in all caps that talent trumps systems, now you've done a 180.

My concern is that the new kids being brought in aren't that big of an improvement over the ones we have. I think Kobena could end up a poor man's Quadry - a kid that struggles with some drops here and there but pulls it together later on. I think West is probably a bigger version of Lemon, which is a good thing. Marrone has said they have spent the last few years putting the better athletes on D, so I will reserve judgement for now.

I may get some heat for this, but Marrones plan was never really New Orleans, it was more Northwestern's O - a spread offense than can run no huddle but also has some pro elements mixed in. I hope he hasn't scrapped that plan, and this O is actually a testament to his ability to install a system for the talent given. I believe this still may be the case when I look at the QB's being brought in: Kinder, Hunt, Broyld, even Miller had wheels (as he proved when he he decked that kid and made off with an iPhone bada-bing!).

 

[Millhouse]

We can go spread, watch Nassib throw 30 incompletions and lose by three touchdowns or we can win fugly.

i think you might've left out some other possibilities there.

 

[Avatusstone28]

I think they do actually. And know why? 'Cuz video games.

Well, I would be happy if our offense could get 400 yards per game.
200 rushing.
200 passing.

 

[dollarbill44]

I decided to look up their records. Comparison is against our 16-15 record under Marrone.

Hawaii: 19-16
SMU: 20-13
Houston: 21-11
TT: 21-11

So... our strategy seems to be even more marginal, if that even makes sense, all things being equal. You can make the argument that 3 of those four schools aren't good comps because they're not BCS programs I guess.

Or, we can just call a duck a duck and say that if at best Marrone's vision on offense works someday in the future when there are other programs able to make a vision work pretty much immediately, Marrone's vision is not the optimal one.

Or, you can dig a little deeper and look at the competition against which they built those records, which I did before making my post. When you're beating up on teams like San Jose St, New Mexico St, South Frothingslosh State U, etc, it does tend to make your program look better from the outside. Just ask Schiano and Beamer.

I get that some of you would rather see a 56-49 loss than a 20-13 win. I, for one, am not in that camp.

 

[CIL]

i think you might've left out some other possibilities there.

I just decided to post the most likely one.

 

[kcsu]

I have stated this many times and most in the know realize this. Doug is a good head coach he is a poor college OC. Doug needs to turn the O over to a dynamic OC who can take advantage of the domes perfect conditions someone who will install an O that kids want to play in and one that will put points on the board and asses in the seats. His way of thinking will never really work on a consistant basis at Syracuse as we will most always have inferior talent especially against the upper tier of the ACC. Actually if we had gone spread this year i think we have great talent for it. I like our WR especially with four of them on the field and Baily is made to run in this O. Not sure where Doug is going with this but i sure as heck hope he hires a true OC for next year

 

[Millhouse]

I just decided to post the most likely one.

i think the most likely one is lose by 3 td fugly

 

[IthacaBarrel]

So we don't have talent or system to beat Tulane or URI by a few touchdowns.. Like I said, I am realistic with recruiting expectations, I don't think Syracuse will ever have huge talent but there is room for improvement. I think Doug is just spinning his wheels right now, we need a system that CAN work and run it. The recruiting hasn't jumped through the roof, so at this point we can't hope that a breakthrough is right around the corner

I have always been a proponent of scheme as opposed to talent, that much I know as like I said I have always felt that Syracuse could recruit better than they have been but am realistic.

It's pretty evident to me that yes we have average talent but we have a scheme that cant work even versus lesser talent. If he needed another gamebreaker on O maybe Reddish should be there. I just hope Graham makes a difference the rest of the year, kid is fast and strong for his size.

The only thing this O is a testament to is coaching failure either in teaching, scheme or recruiting, I could care less what you call it or what area you blame it on

 

[Millhouse]

So we don't have talent or system to beat Tulane or URI by a few touchdowns.. Like I said, I am realistic with recruiting expectations, I don't think Syracuse will ever have huge talent but there is room for improvement. I think Doug is just spinning his wheels right now, we need a system that CAN work and run it. The recruiting hasn't jumped through the roof, so at this point we can't hope that a breakthrough is right around the corner

I have always been a proponent of scheme as opposed to talent, that much I know as like I said I have always felt that Syracuse could recruit better than they have been but am realistic.

It's pretty evident to me that yes we have average talent but we have a scheme that cant work even versus lesser talent. If he needed another gamebreaker on O maybe Reddish should be there. I just hope Graham makes a difference the rest of the year, kid is fast and strong for his size.

The only thing this O is a testament to is coaching failure

i don't know why they're so scared to run nassib. some simple qb draws on 3rd downs might help here or there. can't be so scared of injury, especially when the offense is so bad

 

[rrlbees]

I also don't know how much I buy into this point of we're putting our best athletes on defense instead of offense? How many people does this really apply to?

Dyshawn? Prep school moved him and he seemed to thrive.

Reddish? I think many schools were recruited him as a DB.

Graham was moved the other way (who I think might now be the key to our season on offense).

Seems like the rest of our defensive recruits were recruited by everyone to play defense. Maybe the reason we were able to land them is because we have a set system on defense, one that is attractive to players.

I show we have 32 scholarship players on D, 42 on O.

I don't understand that talk much either. We don't have a QB on defense and we don;t have a RB playing defense. We do have a couple of kids like Reddish who are WR/DB's. So I guess he and Eskridge could be put on offense but does that make a difference this year? Does it make a difference in the future with West, Foster and Hale being frosh?

 

[Chip]

i don't know why they're so scared to run nassib. some simple qb draws on 3rd downs might help here or there.

Ran that spread option play for a TD against Tulane. Do we see it again? Or does it go in the "kitchen sink worked on that one but we can't run it again because that's what they'll be expecting us to do" pile.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

All I know if we dont try something different on offense versus WVU, we lose by 28

 

[rrlbees]

I know we all get frustrated with what appears to be the slow development of an offense that can consistently put points on the board, but the bottom line is 4-8, 8-5, 4-2. Until the bottom line says something else, we have to be pleased overall with the progress.

 

[OrangeMojo]

Or, you can dig a little deeper and look at the competition against which they built those records, which I did before making my post. When you're beating up on teams like San Jose St, New Mexico St, South Frothingslosh State U, etc, it does tend to make your program look better from the outside. Just ask Schiano and Beamer.

I get that some of you would rather see a 56-49 loss than a 20-13 win. I, for one, am not in that camp.

guess what - Hawaii, SMU and Houston were losing to those same teams more than they were winning before they upgraded their offenses. Texas Tech went from bottom feeder in the B12 to border line top 10 rankings with college gameday coming to town for showdowns with Texas and OK. You think TT does that without that type of offense putting up ridiculous #s? Was Okie State a top ten team before installing this type of offense? it's an equalizer for teams with less talent/recruiting disadvantages.

 

[orangenirvana]

Marrone has some issues

I'm very curious to hear what you believe Marrone's issues are.

 

[kingottoiii]

I could care less what offense we have as long as it works - this one isn't really working.

I agree with that. So why insist on running this O if it clearly isn't working?

Rutgers, USC, and even Tulane highlighted this face by going man press with one single high safety all game long. The only receiver showing any sort of separation skills is a converted safety. Chew has speed, but weighs 165 and can't get off the line. Everyone bitches about the line, well, it's tough to block when you are facing 8 men in the box or the other teams send 7 guys on every passing down knowing your qb has major accuracy issues and your db's can lock up the wr's.

IMO Marrone's strategy is INVITING this type of D. Our strategy is to go big and pound the ball. Of course we will see that type of D. If you spread it out, teams cannot play us this way. No team is worried about mismatches when we have 2 TEs going out every pass play.

Marrone has some issues, but he's not an idiot.

I think he is far from an idiot. He seems like a pretty smart coach. However he is thinking like an NFL guy and not a college guy. As long as he does this our O will blow.

We can go spread, watch Nassib throw 30 incompletions and lose by three touchdowns or we can win fugly. My guess is Marrone wants to eat clock and give this team a fighting chance at the end. In fact, I would be willing to bet Doug has said that off the record to a few people.

So we need a fighting chance at the end vs RI and Tulane? Also can you explain why the O has looked functional when we HAVE spread it out? We had 124 yards through 3 Qs vs Wake. Not counting Bailey's TD we had 97 in the 4th Q because we spread it out. Against USC we spread it out and looked functional on O. The first half vs RI we opened it up on O and looked like a real team. The more we go into a shell on O the worse Nassib and the O look. How is that a good thing?

3 years ago this team had bottom half MAC type talent. Our loss to Akron and struggles at home against Buffalo proves that.

So does barely beating RI and Tulane prove Marrone has done nothing to change that? Do we still have bottom level MAC talent? And whose fault is that?

Marrone has said they have spent the last few years putting the better athletes on D, so I will reserve judgement for now.

Name me a guy on D that could play RB or WR this year.

I may get some heat for this, but Marrones plan was never really New Orleans, it was more Northwestern's O - a spread offense than can run no huddle but also has some pro elements mixed in.

If that is his system then why not run it? How will kids get better running a system that we won't use in a year or two? Our O barely cracks the Top 100 and can't move the ball with any consistency. Do you really think we would be worse?

 

[ImperialOrange]

The younger guys are still an unknown quantity.

I can't help but wonder, if we had A) Sales B) Collier C) Gulley healthy or D) all of the above, how much better our offense might look.

There's some above average talent that we're missing that should be there right now but aren't for a variety of reasons. If we were LSU we'd have both A and B available to us.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

However, I have a very good feeling as to why it doesn't work - this group of upperclassman at the skill positions do not keep defensive coordinators up at night, period.

This is probably true, and this is where us "system matters" advocates get really frustrated, because we believe if you have the right strategy even mediocre players at the skills can become dangerous.

We can go spread, watch Nassib throw 30 incompletions and lose by three touchdowns or we can win fugly. My guess is Marrone wants to eat clock and give this team a fighting chance at the end.

Second what Millhouse said about being more options than that. The thing about the eating the clock and keep it close strategy is that it seems to presuppose that the offense has to suck on order to do that. Like if we play crappy offense that can bog down the opponent's offense or something, and this is desirable. Couldn't you eat clock and be more productive on offense, and then not worry about keeping it close? I mean, lets say the offense executes the way the staff envisions - wouldn't that actually chew up more clock, and put more points on the board, and overall these are all things conducive to winning?

My concern is that the new kids being brought in aren't that big of an improvement over the ones we have.

Yeah. Are we even certain they are an improvement at all? That's what worries me. PTG and Kobena have me excited a little, but I can't say I feel all that positive about the new kids on the whole right now.

I may get some heat for this, but Marrones plan was never really New Orleans, it was more Northwestern's O - a spread offense than can run no huddle but also has some pro elements mixed in. I hope he hasn't scrapped that plan, and this O is actually a testament to his ability to install a system for the talent given.

Just wanted to respond to a few of your points. On the last point you made, I think that's a risky game. Hopefully we've traded an opportunity for wins for establishing the offense as intended. People have stated this is the offense as intended though. If it is, and I'm a prolific offensive player coming out of highschool, is this an offense I want to be a part of? I'm concerned that our system, if this is our system, handicaps recruiting some right out of the gate.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

My head is going to explode, I can't take this anymore. Wake me up when we have an AVERAGE offense, apparently that is too much for Marrone to figure out.. What. At least are guys now know what fork to use at dinner.

Just to keep it close tomorrow night we will need a miracle on defense and a 3-4 turnovers because marrone's offense is so inept.. That is sad in year 3. If the talent at the skills and O line is so bad why hasn't he recruited OVER any of it.

 

[Avatusstone28]

i don't know why they're so scared to run nassib. some simple qb draws on 3rd downs might help here or there. can't be so scared of injury, especially when the offense is so bad

There's likely a huge talent gap between Nassib and Loeb, who has hardly seen the field since he's been here.

Of course he's worried about Nassib getting injured.

 

[Millhouse]

There's likely a huge talent gap between Nassib and Loeb, who has hardly seen the field since he's been here.

Of course he's worried about Nassib getting injured.

you don't have to play loeb. put kinder in. go wildcat with bailey. go ohio escaped tigercat with lemon and chew at qb whatever