Marrone To The Jags...

[Crusty]

Well, I guess I woke everyone up with that one.

 

[Full_Rebar]

You could make the same case that St. Doug did a total gut & rebuild on our program- we weren't just bad we were historically bad!

It's just a shame that SU didn't have Burton's money to keep from falling behind in the facilities race.

 

[Moontan]

It's just a shame that SU didn't have Burton's money to keep from falling behind in the facilities race.

I guess we can thank Saint Paul for for that.

 

[Crusty]

You could make the same case that St. Doug did a total gut & rebuild on our program- we weren't just bad we were historically bad!

Fine - and during that period Edsall did a better job than Marrone. Marrone never beat Edsall. He lost 31-56, 6-23 and 21-28.
Why do people hate Edsall? Because he turned us down? Because he beat us? Because he left for Maryland abruptly?
At least he didn't blow smoke up our collective arses.

 

[Crusty]

It's just a shame that SU didn't have Burton's money to keep from falling behind in the facilities race.

Apparently we did. We didn't have the people to go raise it.

 

[Moontan]

Fine - and during that period Edsall did a better job than Marrone.

Yup, aided by the fact that he had something better to sell... facilities, recent winning record, etc..

 

[Full_Rebar]

Apparently we did. We didn't have the people to go raise it.

No Moontan is right. SU lost out because P didn't name the son a captain his senior year. I don't hate Edsall, but I'm pointing out that he did the same thing to UConn that people here are complaining about Marrone doing to SU.

It's time for people to move off of the Marrone hate. His departure was a wake-up call that SU had been taking football for granted. He didn't "save" the program, but he got it turned back around and again like any former player, his success in the NFL helps put a positive light on Syracuse football.

 

[Crusty]

Let's do a little comparison.

Edsall had 5 years of prep as a HC before entering the BE.

In his first seven seasons as a D-1 HC he had two winning seasons, one .500, and four losing seasons.

He had his first win against a p5 opponent in his 15th game a one point win against a Rutgers team that would finish 2-9.

He notched another biggie in his 34th game against a high powered 7-7 Iowa St team.

It took until his 51st game, 5th season, as a D-1 HC to beat a p5 team with a winning record, beating a Pitt team that would finish 8-4 in 2004.

He backed that breakthrough up 38 games later in 2007 against an eventual 9-4 SFla. team.

That far worse Doug Marrone did that in his 3rd game ever as a HC, beating an eventual 8-5 Northwestern squad in a shootout with a point guard who hadn't played football in over four years. He did it again 7 games later against Rutgers, which finished 9-4. He did it twice more on the road the next season.

The crappy Doug Marrone had 8 wins against P5 teams that finished with winning records in 50 games. The far superior Edsall did it 10 times in 130 games.

Marrone had 6 losses to teams with losing records, all p5 schools, and all but one, 4-8 Louisville in a 9-10 loss, just one game under .500, and three of those five got their final loss in a bowl game to send them to 6-7. He didn't have one loss to a non P5 team.

The great Edsall had 20 losses to non P5 or P5 with losing records, including in his greatest season losing to Temple out of the MAC and a 4-8 Rutgers team.

Yep, clearly a better coach.

I am not sure what he did in Pop Warner, but he beat Marrone like a rug in the three times they played and he had a better conference record.

You must be related to the Saint. You go to unbelievable lengths to rationalize a marginal record. You mark Marrone on a curve on everything he does. He loses 7 games in a row and well, there were injuries unreported in the press; Shafer has injuries and he is a bum. Marrone goes to the Pinstripe Bowl and its great; Shafer goes to the Texas Bowl and well, that was last year. Gee, he didn't have admin support, Gee, we won't build him his IPF NOW. Gee, the fans don't support the program. Gee, he doesn't have enough control.

I defended him when he was here because I thought he was committed for more than 4 years and he needed a chance to succeed. I admit that was a mistake.

 

[Crusty]

No Moontan is right. SU lost out because P didn't name the son a captain his senior year. I don't hate Edsall, but I'm pointing out that he did the same thing to UConn that people here are complaining about Marrone doing to SU.

It's time for people to move off of the Marrone hate. His departure was a wake-up call that SU had been taking football for granted. He didn't "save" the program, but he got it turned back around and again like any former player, his success in the NFL helps put a positive light on Syracuse football.

I agree that Edsall did the same thing. However, I am pointing out that Edsall had a demonstrably better record. We have no reason to treat the two any differently. They are hired guns - nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Cuseregular]

Fine - and during that period Edsall did a better job than Marrone. Marrone never beat Edsall. He lost 31-56, 6-23 and 21-28.
Why do people hate Edsall? Because he turned us down? Because he beat us? Because he left for Maryland abruptly?
At least he didn't blow smoke up our collective arses.

Because he's a douche, and just like marrone he's a Prima Donna douche with no self awareness, hard to like and embrace such said douches, successful as coaches or not.

 

[GoSU96]

Based on his record and building the UCONN program from scratch he was demonstrably a better college coach than Marrone. Just seems like a prima facie case.

The only prima facie case established is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

False premises, facts that don't support your argument at all, and utterly wrong conclusion.

Nice job there.

 

[MadNY3]

The only prima facie case established is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

False premises, facts that don't support your argument at all, and utterly wrong conclusion.

Nice job there.

I think looking at the records and overall body of work, Edsall clearly gets the nod over Marrone.

Marrone could be Lombardi X's and O's wise, but the way he handled the Bills situation shows he can't gameplan his career or relationships with the press. That's hurting him.

 

[Crusty]

The only prima facie case established is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

False premises, facts that don't support your argument at all, and utterly wrong conclusion.

Nice job there.

You just don't like the facts.

 

[Crusty]

Because he's a douche, and just like marrone he's a Prima Donna douche with no self awareness, hard to like and embrace such said douches, successful as coaches or not.

On that last sentence we can agree.

 

[GoSU96]

I am not sure what he did in Pop Warner, but he beat Marrone like a rug in the three times they played and he had a better conference record.

You must be related to the Saint. You go to unbelievable lengths to rationalize a marginal record. You mark Marrone on a curve on everything he does. He loses 7 games in a row and well, there were injuries unreported in the press; Shafer has injuries and he is a bum. Marrone goes to the Pinstripe Bowl and its great; Shafer goes to the Texas Bowl and well, that was last year. Gee, he didn't have admin support, Gee, we won't build him his IPF NOW. Gee, the fans don't support the program. Gee, he doesn't have enough control.

I defended him when he was here because I thought he was committed for more than 4 years and he needed a chance to succeed. I admit that was a mistake.

Complete take down of your post and that's the best you got?

You can't even get a basic fact like how many times they played each other correct.

Edsall had the complete administrative and financial support of a state university to help him build the program. He had five years experience at that school as HC before entering the BE. He had a new stadium and state of the art practice facility built for him as he entered the BE.

Marrone wasn't given the adminstrative and financial support he was promised and expected, makes a difference.

I've never said Shafer is a bum, period. I commented that the offense and Macdonald were awful, when they were healthy, but I haven't killed Shafer about the way the year turned out. When did I run down getting to the Texas Bowl? Confused or dishonest, what's your deal?

That Marrone, with no prior HC experience, from a standing start with the worst P5 program ( and one of the worst in D-1), with an incoming class of three players deemed good enough to keep their offers, one of them being Andy Phillips, went .500 is a tremendous accomplishment, not some second rate marginal outcome.

 

[GoSU96]

You just don't like the facts.

What facts?

Here's a fact, it took Marrone 50 games to get his 8th win against a P5 team with a winning record.

It took Edsall 128.

 

[GoSU96]

I think looking at the records and overall body of work, Edsall clearly gets the nod over Marrone.

Marrone could be Lombardi X's and O's wise, but the way he handled the Bills situation shows he can't gameplan his career or relationships with the press. That's hurting him.

Clearly? Not even close.

As for career management, not sure what that has to do with anything, but I'm pretty sure his career path doesn't show he can't gameplan it.

Taking a calculated risk and being on the wrong side for the first time doesn't mean you have executed your plan to that point, it means you've had a set back.

 

[Crusty]

What facts?

Here's a fact, it took Marrone 50 games to get his 8th win against a P5 team with a winning record.

It took Edsall 128.

Man, wow am I impressed. Edsall had a far better record against the same competition at the same time in the BE. I am afraid you are a hopeless Marrone sycophant.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Clearly? Not even close.

As for career management, not sure what that has to do with anything, but I'm pretty sure his career path doesn't show he can't gameplan it.

Taking a calculated risk and being on the wrong side for the first time doesn't mean you have executed your plan to that point, it means you've had a set back.

a calculated risk??

sweet heyzeus!! it was a calculated risk along the lines of choosing which barrell to go over niagara falls in??

he will NEVER be a NFL HC EVER AGAIN.

he couldnt even land an OC job this year. hes just a glorified OL coach.

but ooh ooh!! his CEOship will be front and center for a job next year, you know like the one he just quit and walked away from. yeah right.

he done.

 

[GoSU96]

Man, wow am I impressed. Edsall had a far better record against the same competition at the same time in the BE. I am afraid you are a hopeless Marrone sycophant.

You think this helps your position.

Yeah in Edsall's 12th year at Uconn, 7th in the BE his far better record in conference was 5-2 vs 4-3 for Marrone in his second year as a HC.

You mean the 8-5 they both had that year?

That far better record?

What I am is someone who is bothered by people making unsupported assertions and claiming them as facts.

 

[Statesman1]

You think this helps your position.

Yeah in Edsall's 12th year at Uconn, 7th in the BE his far better record in conference was 5-2 vs 4-3 for Marrone in his second year as a HC.

You mean the 8-5 they both had that year?

That far better record?

What I am is someone who is bothered by people making unsupported assertions and claiming them as facts.

I am amazed that it is difficult for so many on this board to acknowledge two simple truths: 1) How atrocious we were exiting the Grob era and 2) What an accomplishment it was to drag us out of it by Marrone. I'm not saying he is the only one who could have done it, but he was the only one who took the job. Who cares if Marrone didn't kiss enough *ss and rubbed people the wrong way- he stopped the bleeding and got us back to respectability in very short order. Yeah, I'd like our coach to be an all around nice guy and great in the community in addition to winning games, but given the choice I will take winning every single time.

 

[Crusty]

You think this helps your position.

Yeah in Edsall's 12th year at Uconn, 7th in the BE his far better record in conference was 5-2 vs 4-3 for Marrone in his second year as a HC.

You mean the 8-5 they both had that year?

That far better record?

What I am is someone who is bothered by people making unsupported assertions and claiming them as facts.

No, you are someone that throws up ridiculous facts and tortured analysis. Read your own post, man. Really, Edsall's 12th year tells you something important? What are you going to rely on next - their GA records?

Edsall beat Marrone like a drum head-to-head. Marrone never beat him. How are those facts? Marrone's record in the BE sucked.

 

[Crusty]

I am amazed that it is difficult for so many on this board to acknowledge two simple truths: 1) How atrocious we were exiting the Grob era and 2) What an accomplishment it was to drag us out of it by Marrone. I'm not saying he is the only one who could have done it, but he was the only one who took the job. Who cares if Marrone didn't kiss enough *ss and rubbed people the wrong way- he stopped the bleeding and got us back to respectability in very short order. Yeah, I'd like our coach to be an all around nice guy and great in the community in addition to winning games, but given the choice I will take winning every single time.

Of course, but he had a losing record during his tenure. He was poor in conference and his victories were largely against very weak competition. He gave us improvement but not any miracles. He did a good job, but far exaggerated by too many.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Of course, but he had a losing record during his tenure. He was poor in conference and his victories were largely against very weak competition. He gave us improvement but not any miracles. He did a good job, but far exaggerated by too many.

WVU and Louisville...weren't they ranked when Marrone's teams beat them? He also kept SU from being completely blown out in any game during his tenure. Not miracles, but it's not like he didn't at least push SU out of the dark ages.

 

[GoSU96]

a calculated risk??

sweet heyzeus!! it was a calculated risk along the lines of choosing which barrell to go over niagara falls in??

he will NEVER be a NFL HC EVER AGAIN.

he couldnt even land an OC job this year. hes just a glorified OL coach.

but ooh ooh!! his CEOship will be front and center for a job next year, you know like the one he just quit and walked away from. yeah right.

he done.

Is it a distinct possibility sure, but considering this a profession where guys actually get fired and come back and get better jobs, never is ridiculous.