Marrone To The Jags...

[Statesman1]

Of course, but he had a losing record during his tenure. He was poor in conference and his victories were largely against very weak competition. He gave us improvement but not any miracles. He did a good job, but far exaggerated by too many.

I don't think the St. Doug supporters have said much more than that- you can overemphasize his lifetime record all you want but by focusing on that detail you ignore the context of how historically bad we were. Imo that lack of context makes it difficult to take your opinion seriously-

 

[Statesman1]

Serious question for Crusty and the like- what would it have taken to satisfy you to consider Marrone a good coach given the state of the program when he took it over? BE titles? Top tens? I'm curious as to your opinions or is it strictly about the exit? And we all know this is mainly about the exit-

 

[GoSU96]

No, you are someone that throws up ridiculous facts and tortured analysis. Read your own post, man. Really, Edsall's 12th year tells you something important? What are you going to rely on next - their GA records?

Edsall beat Marrone like a drum head-to-head. Marrone never beat him. How are those facts? Marrone's record in the BE sucked.

You think Edsall being in his 12 year at the same school vs Marrone in his second isn't important?

Seriously?

Are you that addled.

 

[Crusty]

I don't think the St. Doug supporters have said much more than that- you can overemphasize his lifetime record all you want but by focusing on that detail you ignore the co text of how historically bad we were. Imo that lack of context makes it difficult to take your opinion seriously-

That 'context" view, of course, means that anything you say is deemed by you to be correct because you determine the context. It closes off all debate because facts don't matter at all. Marrone gets context but other coaches like Edsall do not.

With no previous HC experience (same as DM) Edsall took UCONN from D-2 to D-1. He was .547 while in the BE (.458 in conference games) and .513 at UCONN in all D1 games. All better than Marrone with at least the same context.

My point is simply that there are many coaches like Edsall that would have been able to do at least as well as Marrone did. Everyone compares DM to GRob, which would make anyone look good.
Again. I think DM was a good coach and I supported him, but this deification is just way over the top.

 

[Crusty]

You think Edsall being in his 12 year at the same school vs Marrone in his second isn't important?

Seriously?

Are you that addled.

What was Marrone doing all those years - learning anything?

 

[rrlbees]

I am amazed that it is difficult for so many on this board to acknowledge two simple truths: 1) How atrocious we were exiting the Grob era and 2) What an accomplishment it was to drag us out of it by Marrone. I'm not saying he is the only one who could have done it, but he was the only one who took the job. Who cares if Marrone didn't kiss enough *ss and rubbed people the wrong way- he stopped the bleeding and got us back to respectability in very short order. Yeah, I'd like our coach to be an all around nice guy and great in the community in addition to winning games, but given the choice I will take winning every single time.

Well if you're a dick to everyone, you can't then turn around and complain nobody supported you the way you needed them to. Goes for donors too.

 

[rrlbees]

Of course, but he had a losing record during his tenure. He was poor in conference and his victories were largely against very weak competition. He gave us improvement but not any miracles. He did a good job, but far exaggerated by too many.

Six years as a HC. A .500 coach. Average coach.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't think the St. Doug supporters have said much more than that- you can overemphasize his lifetime record all you want but by focusing on that detail you ignore the context of how historically bad we were. Imo that lack of context makes it difficult to take your opinion seriously-

The context is we went to a bowl game in year two. Only a Saint could do that if things were so cratered.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Is it a distinct possibility sure, but considering this a profession where guys actually get fired and come back and get better jobs, never is ridiculous.

there are tons of reasons why guys get fired and tons of reasons why guys get a 2nd or 3rd shot.

marrone is a QUITTER.

much much different.

i guess you could say im ALL IN on the never.

its more fun this way.

and im right.

 

[Statesman1]

That 'context" view, of course, means that anything you say is deemed by you to be correct because you determine the context. It closes off all debate because facts don't matter at all. Marrone gets context but other coaches like Edsall do not.

With no previous HC experience (same as DM) Edsall took UCONN from D-2 to D-1. He was .547 while in the BE (.458 in conference games) and .513 at UCONN in all D1 games. All better than Marrone with at least the same context.

My point is simply that there are many coaches like Edsall that would have been able to do at least as well as Marrone did. Everyone compares DM to GRob, which would make anyone look good.
Again. I think DM was a good coach and I supported him, but this deification is just way over the top.

'That 'context" view, of course, means that anything you say is deemed by you to be correct because you determine the context"

-- Hardly, but as much as I'd also like to pretend the Grob era never happened denying how God-awful we were doesn't make it so. The fact is we can only have one head coach at a time and Marrone performed the salvage job that Grob could not. Comparing him to Edsall is apples to oranges, as one coach had up and coming facilities and backing from his institution while SU had the opposite. The fairer comparison for Marrone is to his predecessor. Nobody has "deified" St. Doug on this board- but a few have spoken up in appreciation of the job he did here. The fact is, despite the "hundreds" of candidates who you claim could have done as least as well, St. Doug is the one who actually did it. Sorry if he didn't kiss enough arse for your liking, but my ego does not require my ass to be kissed by the coach to support the program.

 

[Statesman1]

The context is we went to a bowl game in year two. Only a Saint could do that if things were so cratered.

Do you deny we did not suck under Grob? That is certainly the minority opinion by sane football fans everywhere.

 

[Crusty]

'That 'context" view, of course, means that anything you say is deemed by you to be correct because you determine the context"

-- Hardly, but as much as I'd also like to pretend the Grob era never happened denying how God-awful we were doesn't make it so. The fact is we can only have one head coach at a time and Marrone performed the salvage job that Grob could not. Comparing him to Edsall is apples to oranges, as one coach had up and coming facilities and backing from his institution while SU had the opposite. The fairer comparison for Marrone is to his predecessor. Nobody has "deified" St. Doug on this board- but a few have spoken up in appreciation of the job he did here. The fact is, despite the "hundreds" of candidates who you claim could have done as least as well, St. Doug is the one who actually did it. Sorry if he didn't kiss enough arse for your liking, but my ego does not require my ass to be kissed by the coach to support the program.

If U CNN was such a better up and coming program with facilities and admin support how come we are in the ACC and they are not?

 

[Statesman1]

If U CNN was such a better up and coming program with facilities and admin support how come we are in the ACC and they are not?

You still can't answer my question: what would have satisfied you regarding Marrone? I'll answer it for you: Nothing.

 

[Crusty]

You still can't answer my question: what would have satisfied you regarding Marrone? I'll answer it for you: Nothing.

I was satisfied with the job he did and have said so repeatedly. The smoke he blew up our butt and the manner in which he left - not so much. Turned out he wasn't at all what he billed himself as and his ego finally got him. Don't wish him any I'll but I won't root for him either.

 

[rrlbees]

Do you deny we did not suck under Grob? That is certainly the minority opinion by sane football fans everywhere.

Where did I say GRob was a good HC or had a good record? Please show me those posts.

 

[MadNY3]

Clearly? Not even close.

As for career management, not sure what that has to do with anything, but I'm pretty sure his career path doesn't show he can't gameplan it.

Taking a calculated risk and being on the wrong side for the first time doesn't mean you have executed your plan to that point, it means you've had a set back.

Edsall built a program from scratch and ultimately made a BCS bowl. Marrone did a great job of turning around a storied program to a competitive level.

A calculated risk to achieve the same position elsewhere wasn't calculated. It was egotistic and as proven, delusional. He's now hurt his reputation and has to make the climb back all over again.

Any gameplan that has leaving one HC got without another one is stupid. Plain stupid.

 

[Statesman1]

Where did I say GRob was a good HC or had a good record? Please show me those posts.

Bees you're losing it- Never said you said anything, I merely asked you a question: "Do you deny we did not suck under Robinson?" in response to what you wrote: "The context is we went to a bowl game in year two. Only a Saint could do that if things were so cratered." I take from your comment that St. Doug's success in year 2 indicates things weren't that bad under Robinson- If you intended something else please clarify.

 

[rrlbees]

Bees you're losing it- Never said you said anything, I merely asked you a question: "Do you deny we did not suck under Robinson?" in response to what you wrote: "The context is we went to a bowl game in year two. Only a Saint could do that if things were so cratered." I take from your comment that St. Doug's success in year 2 indicates things weren't that bad under Robinson- If you intended something else please clarify.

The record sucked. GRob was a bad head coach. But some want to make it look like the whole program was in such a gutter that only a saint could get us out. The FACT remains that if the whole situation was as bad as you want to portray, we do NOT get to a record in year 2 that was better than anything we had had going back to the 4th year before GRob even got here. Unless you are a Saint.

 

[xc84]

I agree that Edsall did the same thing. However, I am pointing out that Edsall had a demonstrably better record. We have no reason to treat the two any differently. They are hired guns - nothing more and nothing less.

"demonstrably better"?? He was 15-30 his first 4 years as a college head coach with no season during that time better than .500.
Marrone was 25-25 with 2 8-win bowl-win seasons.

 

[xc84]

The record sucked. GRob was a bad head coach. But some want to make it look like the whole program was in such a gutter that only a saint could get us out. The FACT remains that if the whole situation was as bad as you want to portray, we do NOT get to a record in year 2 that was better than anything we had had going back to the 4th year before GRob even got here. Unless you are a Saint.

Marrone, no saint, got us out of the GRob gutter. He was the type of coach needed to clean house and get back to playing football. I am sure there are other coaches who could have done it too.

 

[Crusty]

"demonstrably better"?? He was 15-30 his first 4 years as a college head coach with no season during that time better than .500.
Marrone was 25-25 with 2 8-win bowl-win seasons.

Brilliant. UCONN was a D-2 team during Edsall's first four years. Edsall built the UCONN program from D2 to D1. They played in the Yankee conference before then.

Why don't you try his first four years in D1? He was 26-22 while moving up a division rank. His last four years he was 33-19 with and 8-win season and a 9-win season - also went to a bowl every year, including a BCS bowl. His worst four year stretch was 26-23.

Of Marrone's 25 wins, 10 - a full 40% - were against such stalwarts as Maine twice, Akron twice, Colgate, Temple, Tulane, Toldeo, Stony Brook, and Rhode Island. Non-conference victories against notable opponents were Northwestern, Kansas State, and Missouri. We managed only 11 conference victories during his tenure - an average of less than three per year. Five of those conference victories came in one year (2012).

My point is simple. It is not to say Marrone was a bad coach - he was not he was a good coach. but his achievements are quite overrated. There are many, many coaches - I used Edsall as an example - that could have done the same or better job.

 

[Full_Rebar]

...and all those coaches would have left for a NFL HC job as well. Or do we not agree on that point?

 

[Bayside44]

...and all those coaches would have left for a NFL HC job as well. Or do we not agree on that point?

Not how he sold himself - he sold himself as a guy who knew what he was getting into. If a guy like Pellini or Golden of whomever came and left we get that is part of the territory.

And please no more posts on how he had to fundraise or whatever. That's part of the job.

 

[Crusty]

...and all those coaches would have left for a NFL HC job as well. Or do we not agree on that point?

No, not all coaches. Some are not NFL guys like Edsall so the NFL has no appeal.

Marrone had an NFL background but no HC experience. Actually, no real OC experience as he didn't call plays. IMO he came to SU not becasue it was his dream job, but to get HC experience. IMO I think he always planned to return to the NFL. He is obviously primarily motivated by money so it was inevitable that he would leave. If he hadn't blown smoke up our butts, his leaving for the bucks would not have bothered me. Taking the entire staff did.

Most coaches don't have the propensity to jump ship when they don't immediately get their way. Most try to work it out, but then most are thicker skinned than Doug. When you have one of those positions you have responsibilities to the people you hire and by extension their families. IMO you have a responsibility to try and make things work.

 

[Full_Rebar]

I don't care how he sold himself. Any coach that Syracuse hired after G-Rob who had multiple NFL HC offers after 4 years and a .500 record would have gone. Any coach.

 

[Full_Rebar]

This is beyond ridiculous now. So, Syracuse should have hired Holtz or Edsall and been better off if they left to go take a college job at Maryland or Illinois or wherever because they didn't have NFL aspirations?

I just can't...