Maryland fires Mark Turgeon

[FireballPhil]

I guarantee this place isn’t going to be happy if we win 25 games and get bounced the first weekend in March.

JT 3 got Georgetown the tournament every year until the last 2 seasons and he ultimately go run out because those years he was contending with Syracuse, UConn, Pitt and Louisville for BE titles he kept getting beat early.

Same for Dixon at Pitt.

I want to contend for National Titles too, but our fans are lying to themselves if they are suddenly going to be happy because we are 25-6 on March 7th, but ultimately lose to Northern Iowa in the 2/7 game in the round of 32.

Regular season success is never enough for fans despite what people say now. Thats what we need to remember.

There are a lot worse teams you could lose to than UNI. I say this because two of my kids are UNI grads!

 

[Madbiker]

Regular season success means the program is good.
A one off tournament in March doesn’t matter if you win 2 games.

Georgetown choked in the tournaments but JT3 didn’t get fired till he started sucking in the regular season.

Pitt fans ran Dixon off. They didn’t get to the final four. They won some games in the tournament just didn’t get to the final four.

Our fans defend this mediocrity as much as people would complain about choking in the tournament.
We aren’t a big dog anymore.
Our fans here pretend we are. That is my crux.

That is why if people are going to pretend we are big dog I am going to respond with expectations of a big dog.
If we aren’t then I am fine being what we are. A plucky middle of the road team that can win some games in March but not a contender.

It's mostly a matter of expectations. If you go into the tourney as a #10 seed and win 2 games to get to the Sweet 16 the team over-achieved and everyone is happy. If you go in a #2/3/4 seed and you lose before the Final 4 you under-achieved and everyone is unhappy.

 

[Alsacs]

It's mostly a matter of expectations. If you go into the tourney as a #10 seed and win 2 games to get to the Sweet 16 the team over-achieved and everyone is happy. If you go in a #2/3/4 seed and you lose before the Final 4 you under-achieved and everyone is unhappy.

2-4 seed means get to sweet 16 and it’s just matchups.

Anything else but 1 seed just win some games and it’s an overachievement.

Our problem is 8 years we have been irrelevant in the regular season nationally. We can’t even get ranked in the conference season.
And the HC keeps doing the same old same. Playing short rotations to just be mediocre. Keep selling crap a portion of the fanbase doesn’t question and gets you called a hater if you do.

 

[DoctorBombay]

2-4 seed means get to sweet 16 and it’s just matchups.

Anything else but 1 seed just win some games and it’s an overachievement.

Our problem is 8 years we have been irrelevant in the regular season nationally. We can’t even get ranked in the conference season.
And the HC keeps doing the same old same. Playing short rotations to just be mediocre. Keep selling crap a portion of the fanbase doesn’t question and gets you called a hater if you do.

Not to bring up the tired overplayed argument once-again, but I usually watch the cbb regular season as a spectator, and watch the post-season, especially the Dance, as a fan.
IOW, I could care less if we went 15-15 during the season and came in last place. It'd piss me off to no end, sure. But were we to rally, win a few ACCT games, sneak into the NCAAT and then make a S16-E8 run, then yeah...IMO we'd have had a successful season.
For better or worse, that is the sport we follow. It's all about what you do in those 4-6 weeks in March. I'll say it again: If we went 30-2, with a number 1 seed, and lost in the 1st weekend and/or S16, that IMO would NOT be a good season. I've seen enough good-to-great seasons in SU history end before the E8 that in retrospect, I now see as just being "meh". Fun memories of Wesley, Andy, AO, Rick, et al? Sure, but it would've meant more if we'd cut down some F4 nets. The MCW/Triche team that beat IU and the Silent G/Cooney squad that upset UVA & got to the F4, were alot more meaningful to me because, it is the nature of the sport that postseason wins is what determines success.
Btw- I know folks will never be in complete agreement over this issue, lord knows its been debated ad nauseum on this forum. But an SU that has media and opposing fans talking like S16's are "expected" in spite of whatever record we bring to the table, or whether we were on the bubble beforehand, or "Syracuse is a team you do not want to see in March", is not an embarrassment to me. Its annoying as an SU fan, but if we win those games in March and the entire country is talking about yet another "Syracuse improbable lower-seed run in the tourney", I'll gladly take that over an early Tournament flame-out as a high seed. And of course I'd prefer to have both the high number of wins and a FF. But JB is topping out his career with a team that still causes angst to opponents when it matters most. And that, IMO, is so much better than the alternative. JMHO

 

[MSOrange]

While most people remember how you did the tournament, I've always felt how you did over the course of 30 games against your peers is a better judge of the overall health of your program.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Regular season success means the program is good.
A one off tournament in March doesn’t matter if you win 2 games.

Georgetown choked in the tournaments but JT3 didn’t get fired till he started sucking in the regular season.

Pitt fans ran Dixon off. They didn’t get to the final four. They won some games in the tournament just didn’t get to the final four.

Our fans defend this mediocrity as much as people would complain about choking in the tournament.
We aren’t a big dog anymore.
Our fans here pretend we are. That is my crux.

That is why if people are going to pretend we are big dog I am going to respond with expectations of a big dog.
If we aren’t then I am fine being what we are. A plucky middle of the road team that can win some games in March but not a contender.

I think you are minimizing the importance of post season. It's not end all/be all but a lot of coaches are judged on that. Basketball-yes. Football definitely.

I'm not sure our fans pretend we are big dogs. A successful program-yes. Blue blood no. We have a lot of vocal fans who put their money where their mouths are and support this team all over the country, including post season and Bahamas and the TBT. Fans show up. Do we sometimes overvalue our team's expectations? Yes, but isn't that what sports are about.

 

[DoctorBombay]

While most people remember how you did the tournament, I've always felt how you did over the course of 30 games against your peers is a better judge of the overall health of your program.

I agree, & this is a good point. But if we're talking strictly meaningful "seasons", as opposed to overall program health, I'd take the PS run over a high-win, flame out season any time. When JB is gone and we start to struggle, and we will, these "underdog" runs will be alot more significant in retrospect.
As for overall health of the program right now, it is NOT good. But that's not likely to change anytime soon. Once the old man is gone we can start a focus on the future. But for now, we milk as much out of these years as we can, for as long as we can. JMHO

 

[Bayside44]

Regular season success means the program is good.
A one off tournament in March doesn’t matter if you win 2 games.

Georgetown choked in the tournaments but JT3 didn’t get fired till he started sucking in the regular season.

Pitt fans ran Dixon off. They didn’t get to the final four. They won some games in the tournament just didn’t get to the final four.

Our fans defend this mediocrity as much as people would complain about choking in the tournament.
We aren’t a big dog anymore.
Our fans here pretend we are. That is my crux.

That is why if people are going to pretend we are big dog I am going to respond with expectations of a big dog.
If we aren’t then I am fine being what we are. A plucky middle of the road team that can win some games in March but not a contender.

The best they'd done is an Elite 8 in 2009. And four Sweet 16s in the Bush Administration. IT's not UCLA running off Howland.

 

[SWC75]

While most people remember how you did the tournament, I've always felt how you did over the course of 30 games against your peers is a better judge of the overall health of your program.

And it's 4 months of happiness vs. two weeks of it.

 

[Briancuse]

While most people remember how you did the tournament, I've always felt how you did over the course of 30 games against your peers is a better judge of the overall health of your program.

Which season would you rather have the 2010 season which had 5 months of dominance and a disappointing s16 exit or last year 5 months of mediocrity and a surprising s16 appearence?

 

[DoctorBombay]

Which season would you rather have the 2010 season which had 5 months of dominance and a disappointing s16 exit or last year 5 months of mediocrity and a surprising s16 appearance?

Five months of dominance and a THUD? No thanks. It's not how you start, it's how you finish. And I love surprise endings!

 

[Alsacs]

Five months of dominance and a THUD? No thanks. It's not how you start, it's how you finish. And I love surprise endings!

A Thud?
We lost without our starting center to a team that lost the NC by 2.
2010 wasn’t the same without AO.
They played well and lost to a good team.

Definitely not a thud.
Mack and Heyward made more NBA money than any of our guys on that team.

 

[DoctorBombay]

A Thud?
We lost without our starting center to a team that lost the NC by 2.
2010 wasn’t the same without AO.
They played well and lost to a good team.

Definitely not a thud.
Mack and Heyward made more NBA money than any of our guys on that team.

It ended way quicker and unexpectedly than anyone would’ve of thought. Maybe not the best example since it came by way of injury, but the end result was the same…THUD.

 

[MSOrange]

Which season would you rather have the 2010 season which had 5 months of dominance and a disappointing s16 exit or last year 5 months of mediocrity and a surprising s16 appearence?

Easy. I'd much rather be in the position where making the Sweet 16 and losing is a disappointment rather than a pleasant surprise.