Mayor Miner appoints members of Stadium Task Force

[All4SU]

not if the impeding side wins

nothing wrong with being an impediment if you're impeding something that's too risky. everyone frames this stuff in such a biased way. political opposition to anything necessarily impedes the other side

Except she didn't win anything. And even if it could be construed as a "minor" win, then she won the battle and lost the war.

 

[Millhouse]

Except she didn't win anything. And even if it could be construed as a "minor" win, then she won the battle and lost the war.

what war did she lose? not getting the stadium?

your post is just another way of saying she should've wanted the stadium. ok fine. but not really relevant to whether she won or lost.

 

[All4SU]

what war did she lose? not getting the stadium?

your post is just another way of saying she should've wanted the stadium. ok fine. but not really relevant to whether she won or lost.

She is ostracized by the Governor of her state, who happens to be in her same political party, and a guy who has his sights firmly on higher office. She is obviously on the outs with the County Executive. And she has earned the reputation of being difficult to deal with. For a politician, that's a formula for failure.

And for the record, I have my reservations about putting a stadium in Kennedy Square. I am opposed to State funding for private development projects like a stadium. And I am neither Democrat nor Republican. I just think Miner is a poor representative of a City which has a slew of problems and is in need of a change of direction. IMHO, she is not a leader. She is not a innovator. She is a functionary and a critic. I believe she had the opportunity to turn that situation into a win, but her own petty pride, as well as her other shortcomings, kept her from seeing an opportunity. Instead, the only reaction she could muster was a roadblock.

 

[Millhouse]

She is ostracized by the Governor of her state, who happens to be in her same political party, and a guy who has his sights firmly on higher office. She is obviously on the outs with the County Executive. And she has earned the reputation of being difficult to deal with. For a politician, that's a formula for failure.

And for the record, I have my reservations about putting a stadium in Kennedy Square. I am opposed to State funding for private development projects like a stadium. And I am neither Democrat nor Republican. I just think Miner is a poor representative of a City which has a slew of problems and is in need of a change of direction. IMHO, she is not a leader. She is not a innovator. She is a functionary and a critic. I believe she had the opportunity to turn that situation into a win, but her own petty pride, as well as her other shortcomings, kept her from seeing an opportunity. Instead, the only reaction she could muster was a roadblock.

right. you think she was wrong and a bad mayor. which is totally fine.

 

[Millhouse]

Minch Lewis former auditor for the city of Syracuse says Rubins claims are more fiction than fact

This is a pretty silly letter. He seems to think that something isn't a gift if it's 20% of the value of something. I guess a down payment on a house wouldn't be a gift.

Secondly, Rubin refers to economic development from stadiums as "mindless pieties." He claims that there is evidence that economic benefits do not flow from stadium development. There are several studies related to public funding for sports facilities. They are concerned with financing for professional sports. But they do not apply to Syracuse where the goal is to support a nationally recognized collegiate athletic program.

How does the economic development evidence from professional sports facilities not apply to Syracuse? Has anyone from the state or county said that the goal is to support a nationally recognized collegiate athletic program?

 

[OttoMets]

She is ostracized by the Governor of her state, who happens to be in her same political party, and a guy who has his sights firmly on higher office. She is obviously on the outs with the County Executive. And she has earned the reputation of being difficult to deal with. For a politician, that's a formula for failure.

And for the record, I have my reservations about putting a stadium in Kennedy Square. I am opposed to State funding for private development projects like a stadium. And I am neither Democrat nor Republican. I just think Miner is a poor representative of a City which has a slew of problems and is in need of a change of direction. IMHO, she is not a leader. She is not a innovator. She is a functionary and a critic. I believe she had the opportunity to turn that situation into a win, but her own petty pride, as well as her other shortcomings, kept her from seeing an opportunity. Instead, the only reaction she could muster was a roadblock.

At least that's a fair, well-articulated position. And Miner is arguably has too much pragmatist and too little innovator in her.

She's a great improvement over several of her predecessors, but that's as much an indictment of them as it is praise of her. But she's done some good things, with more to come, and it's impossible to argue that the city isn't a better place than it was four years ago. And there's something rather big on the horizon.

As far as the stadium fallout goes, consider the sources of this information. A lot of it's not true. It's just standard CYA and political posturing involving the spiteful (Cuomo), the disappointed (Mahoney), and the ignorant (the Common Council).

 

[OttoMets]

This is a pretty silly letter. He seems to think that something isn't a gift if it's 20% of the value of something. I guess a down payment on a house wouldn't be a gift.

Secondly, Rubin refers to economic development from stadiums as "mindless pieties." He claims that there is evidence that economic benefits do not flow from stadium development. There are several studies related to public funding for sports facilities. They are concerned with financing for professional sports. But they do not apply to Syracuse where the goal is to support a nationally recognized collegiate athletic program.

How does the economic development evidence from professional sports facilities not apply to Syracuse? Has anyone from the state or county said that the goal is to support a nationally recognized collegiate athletic program?

Meh, not to get too ad hominem, but I don't think the words of an old Syracuse politician are worth much on this matter.

 

[Millhouse]

Meh, not to get too ad hominem, but I don't think the words of an old Syracuse politician are worth much on this matter.

the bold part is from the letter that orange yes linked to. who's the old politician here?

 

[supp]

Meh, not to get too ad hominem, but I don't think the words of an old Syracuse politician are worth much on this matter.

Haven't you been following along? You're not to question the personal agendas of those who come out in support of the stadium project as currently constituted. Their testimony is gospel. Only those who have not shown full-throated support are suspect in their reasoning.

 

[OttoMets]

the bold part is from the letter that orange yes linked to. who's the old politician here?

Minch Lewis.

I honestly don't know much about him, but he was a city auditor during a period of rather serious decline in Syracuse. Fair to assume that he's not really dialed in to national trends in smart urban governance and municipal planning? Probably.

I've yet to see a serious-minded critique of Rubin's letter; everything offered has been general, cliched opinions from interested parties.

 

[All4SU]

right. you think she was wrong and a bad mayor. which is totally fine.

I don't think being opposed to a stadium in Kennedy Square was "wrong" or "right." I think she handled it poorly, like she does almost everything.

 

[CuseOnly]

I would. And do.

There has been a lot written in this thread, some accurate, some not. Your post that I responded to (and a couple that preceded it) don't give the impression that you have any interest in what's good for the city.

I'm sorry that you don't like what you've read about this stadium issue. If you want to criticize the mayor, go nuts. But a lot of what you've said is factually incorrect.

Please let me know what I said that was factually incorrect??

 

[CuseOnly]

I know a few things are true.

When you don't take a little risk, nothing happens. And when you stand by and watch, nothing happens. When you block thing, nothing happens. This is what is happening is Syracuse right now and has been for a while. No leadership, no vision, no action and we are left with a declining city, declining jobs market, declining infrastructure, basically the status quo in Syracuse. I attribute all of these things to the mayor of Syracuse.

Tell me I am wrong.

 

[Millhouse]

I know a few things are true.

When you don't take a little risk, nothing happens. And when you stand by and watch, nothing happens. When you block thing, nothing happens. This is what is happening is Syracuse right now and has been for a while. No leadership, no vision, no action and we are left with a declining city, declining jobs market, declining infrastructure, basically the status quo in Syracuse. I attribute all of these things to the mayor of Syracuse.

Tell me I am wrong.

You are wrong. Do you think a blocked field goal is nothing?

 

[CuseOnly]

You are wrong. Do you think a blocked field goal is nothing?

This isn't a game. Not the same as blocking or otherwise costing CNY $521 million dollars for 3 projects that otherwise would have been approved without Miner's interference or pig headedness.

 

[CuseOnly]

You are wrong. Do you think a blocked field goal is nothing?

So you're also saying I am wrong in that inaction will create opportunity? Don't think so.

 

[Millhouse]

So you're also saying I am wrong in that inaction will create opportunity? Don't think so.

No I'm saying that taking action to stop something isn't inaction. Terrible framing in this thread

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Mayor Miner is not weak. That doesn't mean you have to like her or agree with her, but calling her weak is wrong. http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....nie_miner_took_on_10_challenges_as_mayor.html

 

[kcsu]

she is not a strong leader

 

[CuseOnly]

No I'm saying that taking action to stop something isn't inaction. Terrible framing in this thread

I wouldn't call what she did "taking action". Taking action would have been to come up with anything at all in her previous 4 years to help the city. Which she hasn't.

 

[OttoMets]

Please let me know what I said that was factually incorrect??

Factually, this "by my count so far she has lost the city $500 mil + 16 mil + 5 mil = $521 million dollars for the economy" couldn't be further from the truth.

But I was just as much questioning the "she's not looking out for our best interests" opinion, which is also incorrect if we're talking about the city's health and sustainability. And I was criticizing your " the city" comments and praise of Kathleen Joy (who anyone who's remotely dialed in knows to be a poor attorney, bad thinker, and ineffective political wannabe; if we're talking about horrible leadership -- and many in this thread seem to be -- the bulk of the ire should be directed not at the executive level with the state, city, or county, but squarely with Syracuse's Common Council).

If this were a thread centered around criticizing Miner, I could join in and and make some solid contributions. As it relates to the stadium matter, however, most of these sentiments are off-base and don't reflect much understanding of the issue.

 

[Millhouse]

I wouldn't call what she did "taking action". Taking action would have been to come up with anything at all in her previous 4 years to help the city. Which she hasn't.

this is like criticizing a blocked field goal because the offense is bad. maybe her other policies stink all around but that isn't relevant to evaluating her stance on the stadium

this is do something bias. blocking what you think is a bad idea is only ok if you offer up some other idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician's_syllogism

(chip's ears just perked up. Politician's sylloWhat?)

 

[CousCuse]

What is holding up the IPF ? The new chancellor went out of his way in that letter to make the city look bad. Are they playing some political ego game with that too ? Seems like a scorched earth policy at work to hurt anyone who made the city look bad.

 

[Orangeyes]

Fix Syracuse's crumbling foundation before building a shiny ...

 

[Millhouse]

Fix Syracuse's crumbling foundation before building a shiny ...

"The people of Syracuse have been bamboozled by business projects in the past and are reluctant to kiss the cloak of politicians who want to ram another down our throats. "

pretty good line there