Mayor Miner appoints members of Stadium Task Force | Page 7 | Syracusefan.com

Mayor Miner appoints members of Stadium Task Force

Millhouse said:
"The people of Syracuse have been bamboozled by business projects in the past and are reluctant to kiss the cloak of politicians who want to ram another down our throats. "

pretty good line there
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While basic infrastructure repair is necessary, it is a function of the operating budget not strategic long term development investment.

Think about the life cycle of a company. When you get down to maintenance levels of capex investment and shun all other spending it's when your business is mature and close to the end...you spend only what is necessary to keep your assets producing their near break even level profits. You wait for things to wind down as your plant becomes obsolete or your industry is consolidated. You have basically quit and are delaying the inevitable. The same applies with a city in need of planned economic development . People think they are just being responsible fiscally but really what they are calling for is quitting. No one likes a quitter and quitters never win by definition. Some vision of a viable future is needed. Great leaders help their organizations reinvent themselves when facing obsoletion or intensifying competition.
 
CousCuse said:
What is holding up the IPF ? The new chancellor went out of his way in that letter to make the city look bad. Are they playing some political ego game with that too ? Seems like a scorched earth policy at work to hurt anyone who made the city look bad.
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Check out the IPF thread--new material.
 
GoSU96 said:
Good lord.

81 doesn't separate the University area from Downtown. What the hell are Adams, Harrison, Genesee, Fayette and Erie for?

She thinks East-West Traffic is going to flow better when people who don't want to go 5 - 10 miles out of their way drive down Miner's folly to get south of the city.

Rochester better get to busy on 490, Buffalo on 190. Freaking scars.
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rochester is talking about getting rid of the inner loop for the same reasons that they're talking about getting rid of 81 (it's like a moat) and lots of people in buffalo want to get rid of the skyway (cuts of the harbor - i'm not sure where that project stands)

they're not really that different situations

i think you might be too literal about "separate"

googled all three for this http://cityliving.whec.com/news/news/287251-rochester-inner-loop-makes-ny-highways-no-future-list

i don't feel strongly about it (i'm sure "The Congress for New Urbanism" has some real dopes), just pointing out that there are similarities. 490 kinda cuts off corn hill but it's far enough south to not be a big issue
 
Millhouse said:
rochester is talking about getting rid of the inner loop for the same reasons that they're talking about getting rid of 81 (it's like a moat) and lots of people in buffalo want to get rid of the skyway (cuts of the harbor - i'm not sure where that project stands)

they're not really that different situations

i think you might be too literal about "separate"

googled all three for this http://cityliving.whec.com/news/news/287251-rochester-inner-loop-makes-ny-highways-no-future-list

i don't feel strongly about it (i'm sure "The Congress for New Urbanism" has some real dopes), just pointing out that there are similarities. 490 kinda cuts off corn hill but it's far enough south to not be a big issue
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And her opinion here won't mean much. Same can be said for the opinion of any local official on this issue. In the end, federal and state dollars will dictate the outcome, like they did the last time around. Nobody wanted the viaduct then and they gave it to us anyway. I think it's significant that the cheapest alternative is the at-grade roadway. Rehabbing the current viaduct is not acceptable to many officials at the state and federal level because of its poor design to begin with. Based on very early estimates they've circulated, the other alternatives (a complete rebuild of the viaduct, Big Dig-style tunnel, or a depressed highway through downtown) range from way more expensive to prohibitively expensive.
 
OttoMets said:
Factually, this "by my count so far she has lost the city $500 mil + 16 mil + 5 mil = $521 million dollars for the economy" couldn't be further from the truth.

But I was just as much questioning the "she's not looking out for our best interests" opinion, which is also incorrect if we're talking about the city's health and sustainability. And I was criticizing your " the city" comments and praise of Kathleen Joy (who anyone who's remotely dialed in knows to be a poor attorney, bad thinker, and ineffective political wannabe; if we're talking about horrible leadership -- and many in this thread seem to be -- the bulk of the ire should be directed not at the executive level with the state, city, or county, but squarely with Syracuse's Common Council).

If this were a thread centered around criticizing Miner, I could join in and and make some solid contributions. As it relates to the stadium matter, however, most of these sentiments are off-base and don't reflect much understanding of the issue.
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Sorry Otto but losing $521 million for the region is a fact...explain how it isn't please...

She blocked the stadium where money was available to the tune of $500 mil.
She requested 16 mil for infrastructure and police cars and was ignored because she pi$$ed off the governor on the pension issue.
She blocked the stadium and because Joy was in favor, Joy blocked the $5 mil for IT upgrades.

All attributable to Miner.

All of which is now public knowledge.
 
Senator Schumer told me money is no object. So now I want a tunnel.
 
CuseOnly said:
Sorry Otto but losing $521 million for the region is a fact...explain how it isn't please...

She blocked the stadium where money was available to the tune of $500 mil.
She requested 16 mil for infrastructure and police cars and was ignored because she pi$$ed off the governor on the pension issue.
She blocked the stadium and because Joy was in favor, Joy blocked the $5 mil for IT upgrades.

All attributable to Miner.

All of which is now public knowledge.
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Losing money implies that we had the money or could reasonably expect to get the money.

Joy being an obstructionist and a grandstander is far from attributable to Miner. That she's happy to offer up the same steaming pile of nothing for the next two years that she's given for her entire tenure on the Council has more to do with her ambition than it does with the stadium deal, which is just the latest convenient excuse (see the crap she's pulled in recent years, before the stadium thing came to her attention).

The $16 million, again, just a request that may or may not have been granted. Though if you want to say that her pension op-ed was the reason we didn't get the money, I won't argue with you. (I think her statements on public safety and how that money would be spent are in direct contradiction with one another; I think her public safety record is mediocre at best; I also think her pension op-ed was spot on and would hope that she'd do the same thing if given the opportunity.)

As for the stadium, let's just say that there's a bit of a disconnect between public perception and the probability that that project would have broken ground. Far from a sure thing. I know that's vague, but trust me - she didn't just turn down $500 million.
 
CuseOnly said:
Sorry Otto but losing $521 million for the region is a fact...explain how it isn't please...

She blocked the stadium where money was available to the tune of $500 mil.
She requested 16 mil for infrastructure and police cars and was ignored because she pi$$ed off the governor on the pension issue.
She blocked the stadium and because Joy was in favor, Joy blocked the $5 mil for IT upgrades.

All attributable to Miner.

All of which is now public knowledge.
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So let me get this right. Miner and Cuomo don't agree so the constituents suffer because of it? Sounds to me that if we get rid of politicians maybe we could start to get things done.
 
SmilinBob said:
So let me get this right. Miner and Cuomo don't agree so the constituents suffer because of it? Sounds to me that if we get rid of politicians maybe we could start to get things done.
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You're how old? You're just catching on to this? :-0
 
So it looks like this is becoming what's the best way to redevelop Kennedy Square, which really wasn't on anybody's radar until somebody thought it might be a good location for a new Stadium. And Stadium Task Force is a misnomer, imo. They aren't going to decide anything about a new Stadium except not to build one.
 
Noexcuse said:
So it looks like this is becoming what's the best way to redevelop Kennedy Square, which really wasn't on anybody's radar until somebody thought it might be a good location for a new Stadium. And Stadium Task Force is a misnomer, imo. They aren't going to decide anything about a new Stadium except not to build one.
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Looks like this is a big circle jerk to me
 
Miner currently looking to spend $1/2 million+ to study use of PeopleSoft for city payroll processing.
 
Noexcuse said:
So it looks like this is becoming what's the best way to redevelop Kennedy Square, which really wasn't on anybody's radar until somebody thought it might be a good location for a new Stadium. ...
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Wha?

The city picked a developer two years ago. Plans were developed; some bids have been let out. SUNY Upstate has been moving ahead on its expansion on the site. Tenants have expressed interest.

What wasn't on the radar was this stadium fantasy.
 
OttoMets said:
Wha?

The city picked a developer two years ago. Plans were developed; some bids have been let out. SUNY Upstate has been moving ahead on its expansion on the site. Tenants have expressed interest.

What wasn't on the radar was this stadium fantasy.
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I see a lot of vacant space there since they tore down the Housing Project. There was an erector set girder structure for a year or so while funding to complete the building was hung up in the State. That was finally finished. The tech lab structure on the north west corner was completed several years ago, with programmatic funding guaranteed for 2 years if memory serves. Not saying there isn't a plan for the site. I'm sure there is. Just like there are plans for Salina Street north and south of downtown, West Fayette, Inner Harbor, etc. Fantasy or not this area was not on the front burner until the Stadium Plans were announced.
 
Noexcuse said:
I see a lot of vacant space there since they tore down the Housing Project. There was an erector set girder structure for a year or so while funding to complete the building was hung up in the State. That was finally finished. The tech lab structure on the north west corner was completed several years ago, with programmatic funding guaranteed for 2 years if memory serves. Not saying there isn't a plan for the site. I'm sure there is. Just like there are plans for Salina Street north and south of downtown, West Fayette, Inner Harbor, etc. Fantasy or not this area was not on the front burner until the Stadium Plans were announced.
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OK, sounds like you're relatively familiar with the site. Maybe we're just arguing semantics - "front burner," "on the radar."

Despite the lack of earth being moved, that redevelopment was (and is, as far as I know) progressing from a leasing/financing perspective. And it's telling that Upstate was full-steam-ahead on its second building on the site (architectural plans finalized, bids let out, ground to be broken this summer); no one at the school even heard of this stadium scheme until the Post-Standard alerted them.
 
OttoMets said:
OK, sounds like you're relatively familiar with the site. Maybe we're just arguing semantics - "front burner," "on the radar."

Despite the lack of earth being moved, that redevelopment was (and is, as far as I know) progressing from a leasing/financing perspective. And it's telling that Upstate was full-steam-ahead on its second building on the site (architectural plans finalized, bids let out, ground to be broken this summer); no one at the school even heard of this stadium scheme until the Post-Standard alerted them.
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Interesting. Not really an ideal site for a Stadium anyway for a lot of reasons. Maybe SU wedges in here with the new Homeland Security College or whatever they are calling it.
 
Millhouse said:
she didn't want the stadium. there's no stadium. that ain't weak.

you think she's wrong. wrong and weak aren't the same thing.
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I see your point, Millhouse, but at the end of the day, she's not holding many cards. She's holding a tin cup, and she has insulted the people who could fill it for her. We'll see how "strong" she is when the next time comes for her to go begging for other public money to keep the city afloat.
 
OttoMets said:
Wha?

The city picked a developer two years ago. Plans were developed; some bids have been let out. SUNY Upstate has been moving ahead on its expansion on the site. Tenants have expressed interest.

What wasn't on the radar was this stadium fantasy.
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The governor and county supporting this and backing up their support with hundreds of millions of dollars amounts to more than a fantasy. The discussions for the stadium were in concept phase. The school's first note to Miner is very clear on that point. As for sites, things change. If that Kennedy Square site was really the best one for a stadium then in order for something to be built, it could possibly have been worked out with upstate. However, the fact that Miner squashed the project is exactly the reason the timing was not right to work out the details and agreements of the site with Upstate or any other site.
 
IthacaMatt said:
I see your point, Millhouse, but at the end of the day, she's not holding many cards. She's holding a tin cup, and she has insulted the people who could fill it for her. We'll see how "strong" she is when the next time comes for her to go begging for other public money to keep the city afloat.
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she's screwed either way. the stadium would displace whatever else she begged for (and she was begging for a long time before the stadium talk). obstruct the stadium and you don't get any money because king cuomo is mad.

just because i don't think she's weak doesn't mean I don't think the city is broke. that's so many negatives i don't know what it means.
 
Millhouse said:
she's screwed either way. the stadium would displace whatever else she begged for (and she was begging for a long time before the stadium talk). obstruct the stadium and you don't get any money because king cuomo is mad.

just because i don't think she's weak doesn't mean I don't think the city is broke. that's so many negatives i don't know what it means.
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The Donald is coming to talk to the Repubs this week. Maybe she should hook up with them. Going over to the other side hasn't hurt Mahoney it seems.
 
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