McDonald is the best hope for Syracuse football

[OttoinGrotto]

Do you have any evidence of that?

How is one supposed to demonstrate urgency about this stuff? Infomercials?

Well, part of the evidence is that in Cornelius' case they told him he was the only WR they were bringing in.

Also, how many WRs did we have in the class last season before Marrone left? Hint - the number doesn't signal any urgency.

We can see that the new staff considers it urgent when you look at the huge numbers and quality of WR recruits they're currently bringing in.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Sometimes it seems as though a lot of us only remember from the point we got Pugh back, on from last season. I am not saying there isn't blame to be spread to Mr. Kool, but at the same time, that line and offense looked awful last year without Pugh, and the receivers we have this season, could barely see the field last year. IJS, let's not act like everything was in place for continued success, because there is evidence to the contrary.

I don't know. Nassib threw for like 800 yards the 1st 2 games last season. I was pretty excited about that.

 

[jgeorge322]

Sometimes it seems as though a lot of us only remember from the point we got Pugh back, on from last season. I am not saying there isn't blame to be spread to Mr. Kool, but at the same time, that line and offense looked awful last year without Pugh, and the receivers we have this season, could barely see the field last year. IJS, let's not act like everything was in place for continued success, because there is evidence to the contrary.

offense was a lot better in games without pugh (ie northwestern, usc) then anything we had this year. lets not act like we had world beaters last year. this year's offense just looks like crap all-around. it has no semblance of an identity. again, i blame gmac for that.

 

[Crusty]

what I don't get out of this thread is how horrible the play calling was during the last drive... the coaching was way too tight and conservative down the stretch minus the fake field goal attempt that took to long to set up.

come on running our slowest running back on a sweep to the short side doesn't help the argument here and the fact he called a swing pass to the short side immediately after that

Without Hickey they had to run away from the middle of the line and #97. We were getting stuffed anytime we went near him (and sometimes when we didn't - he caught us).

 

[Franz69]

I agree that McDonald is laying the groundwork, but that does not really excuse the absolutely bizarre play calling.

Simple stuff that anybody can figure out. We like to run wide receiver screens. Against Pitt, we ran a screen where the lead blocker was Chris Clark. Yes, that Chris Clark, the smallest player in D-1 football. What is the point of running a play that has zero chance of working? You want to run a wide receiver screen? Fine, put somebody out there who can block, even just a little. It's not rocket surgery.

 

[SmilinBob]

I agree that McDonald is laying the groundwork, but that does not really excuse the absolutely bizarre play calling.

Simple stuff that anybody can figure out. We like to run wide receiver screens. Against Pitt, we ran a screen where the lead blocker was Chris Clark. Yes, that Chris Clark, the smallest player in D-1 football. What is the point of running a play that has zero chance of working? You want to run a wide receiver screen? Fine, put somebody out there who can block, even just a little. It's not rocket surgery.

When I see stuff like that I'm hoping they are setting up another play because it really didn't make a lot of sense.

 

[PhatOrange]

I mean, they showed ZERO urgency bringing in wide receivers.

That's not entirely true. We were really close to getting Miami's freshman sensation Stacey Coley here for a visit but he decided not to. We went out and got Corey Winfield and Brisley and then signed Sean Avant late.

I think it’s probably expecting a lot to get a freshman impact type WR to sign with 2 or 3 weeks left in a recruiting season.

 

[ForeverOrange]

In spite of all this, most publications had us finishing near the bottom of the ACC, and yet here we are within one win to returning to another bowl. I think we can be patient with this thing, just as we were with the old staff. If his coaching can catch up with his recruiting, we could be in for some exciting times on the hill, if not, than we pretty much stay how we have been.

 

[retro44]

Without Hickey they had to run away from the middle of the line and #97. We were getting stuffed anytime we went near him (and sometimes when we didn't - he caught us).

my point is that we should have been vertical in the passing game.

and hunt doesn't throw over the middle, but once or twice a game now, which could explain why he has less interceptions than Allen. Hunt throws most of his passes to the sidelines on swings and bubbles and long ball throws are 90% to the sidelines. So hunt's lower no.s might just be a product of limited play calling on passing plays over the middle.

Allen would try to thread the needle and use more of the field, and just maybe our staff has figured out we have no tough W.R.'S who want to catch over the middle and take hits. The only games I can think of that we attacked the opponet's middle was an over matched wagner team Tulane teams after the first two games. So after the first four games we are a stuff it up the middle and hope we break the run and a pass it out to sidelines team offense.

Maybe inserting Allen to start out the B.C. game would really confuse the game plan B.C. sets up.

 

[SmilinBob]

That's not entirely true. We were really close to getting Miami's freshman sensation Stacey Coley here for a visit but he decided not to. We went out and got Corey Winfield and Brisley and then signed Sean Avant late.

I think it’s probably expecting a lot to get a freshman impact type WR to sign with 2 or 3 weeks left in a recruiting season.

No doubt that SS/GM showed some urgency regarding the wr's once Marrone left.

 

[SmilinBob]

my point is that we should have been vertical in the passing game.

and hunt doesn't throw over the middle, but once or twice a game now, which could explain why he has less interceptions than Allen. Hunt throws most of his passes to the sidelines on swings and bubbles and long ball throws are 90% to the sidelines. So hunt's lower no.s might just be a product of limited play calling on passing plays over the middle.

Allen would try to thread the needle and use more of the field, and just maybe our staff has figured out we have no tough W.R.'S who want to catch over the middle and take hits. The only games I can think of that we attacked the opponet's middle was an over matched wagner team Tulane teams after the first two games. So after the first four games we are a stuff it up the middle and hope we break the run and a pass it out to sidelines team offense.

Maybe inserting Allen to start out the B.C. game would really confuse the game plan B.C. sets up.

I often wonder if SU had 2 to 3 WR's that could get some space how Allen would have done. That to me is why a lot of Oklahoma QB's are fools gold, a lot of qb's could toss to fast open guys. It's when that window is slightly open is when you see who the real qb's are.

 

[RF2044]

That's not entirely true. We were really close to getting Miami's freshman sensation Stacey Coley here for a visit but he decided not to. We went out and got Corey Winfield and Brisley and then signed Sean Avant late.

I think it’s probably expecting a lot to get a freshman impact type WR to sign with 2 or 3 weeks left in a recruiting season.

All of those things happened under the new coaching staff, not the former one. Otherwise, Otto's statement about not bringing in a WR in the last class holds true.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

That's not entirely true. We were really close to getting Miami's freshman sensation Stacey Coley here for a visit but he decided not to. We went out and got Corey Winfield and Brisley and then signed Sean Avant late.

I think it’s probably expecting a lot to get a freshman impact type WR to sign with 2 or 3 weeks left in a recruiting season.

I was talking about the previous staff. Winfield, Brisley, Avant were post-Marrone. Current staff obviously showed urgency.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

All of those things happened under the new coaching staff, not the former one. Otherwise, Otto's statement about not bringing in a WR in the last class holds true.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.

 

[Crusty]

my point is that we should have been vertical in the passing game.

and hunt doesn't throw over the middle, but once or twice a game now, which could explain why he has less interceptions than Allen. Hunt throws most of his passes to the sidelines on swings and bubbles and long ball throws are 90% to the sidelines. So hunt's lower no.s might just be a product of limited play calling on passing plays over the middle.

Allen would try to thread the needle and use more of the field, and just maybe our staff has figured out we have no tough W.R.'S who want to catch over the middle and take hits. The only games I can think of that we attacked the opponet's middle was an over matched wagner team Tulane teams after the first two games. So after the first four games we are a stuff it up the middle and hope we break the run and a pass it out to sidelines team offense.

Maybe inserting Allen to start out the B.C. game would really confuse the game plan B.C. sets up.

I think your post says it - they won't let Hunt pass over the middle because they don't want to risk interceptions.

What is strange to me is that Hunt had thrown three or 4 good long balls and. as you say, we don't go vertical. We were obviously playing for a FG. I do not understand the last TO and I do not understand the play calling on the last series either. With our offense we needed to save one last TO in order to preserve as many play options as possible.

 

[PhatOrange]

All of those things happened under the new coaching staff, not the former one. Otherwise, Otto's statement about not bringing in a WR in the last class holds true.

Yeah but the last staff wasn't recruiting for the new staff. I maintain the current kids fit the former staff's scheme and would've been a fine group for them. They also had a healthy Flemming, Hale and to some degree Foster, not to mention Funderburke. It just wasn't a priority position for them so I can't blame them at all.

I’ll also say that prior to camp this past summer, I can only recall one or two people questioning the state of the current WR corp. 98% of the message board felt pretty good about our WR’s. This is all hindsight handwringing and I frankly think more a result of the OC and his ed passing scheme than the WR's.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

It is much easier for the coaches to change their schemes to fit the players' abilities than it is for the players to change their abilities to fit the coaching schemes.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I agree that McDonald is laying the groundwork, but that does not really excuse the absolutely bizarre play calling.

Simple stuff that anybody can figure out. We like to run wide receiver screens. Against Pitt, we ran a screen where the lead blocker was Chris Clark. Yes, that Chris Clark, the smallest player in D-1 football. What is the point of running a play that has zero chance of working? You want to run a wide receiver screen? Fine, put somebody out there who can block, even just a little. It's not rocket surgery.

My post wasn't about excusing it. McDonald's made mistakes. My post was intended to help people settle in to the idea that he does offer a lot of upside and we need to let him grow.

 

[retro44]

I think your post says it - they won't let Hunt pass over the middle because they don't want to risk interceptions.

What is strange to me is that Hunt had thrown three or 4 good long balls and. as you say, we don't go vertical. We were obviously playing for a FG. I do not understand the last TO and I do not understand the play calling on the last series either. With our offense we needed to save one last TO in order to preserve as many play options as possible.

also when I said vertical I don't mean 30-40 yard passes all the time, but I would like to see 10-15 yarders over the middle to loosen up the defense...way too conservative for me, and I was always a defensive player to boot

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yeah but the last staff wasn't recruiting for the new staff. I maintain the current kids fit the former staff's scheme and would've been a fine group for them. They also had a healthy Flemming, Hale and to some degree Foster, not to mention Funderburke. It just wasn't a priority position for them so I can't blame them at all.

I’ll also say that prior to camp this past summer, I can only recall one or two people questioning the state of the current WR corp. 98% of the message board felt pretty good about our WR’s. This is all hindsight handwringing and I frankly think more a result of the OC and his ed passing scheme than the WR's.

FWIW, I was one of the guys worried about the WRs. I was worried about West adjusting to becoming the primary option and wasn't sold on a lot of the other guys on the roster.

FWIW, I also thought Kobena would have a breakout year. :noidea:

 

[retro44]

I really wasn't worried about the receivers as much as some,but was not giddy about them either. Phat reminded me about big receivers that we lost who might have been tough over the middle. My memory is fading and fast

 

[anomander]

my point is that we should have been vertical in the passing game. and hunt doesn't throw over the middle, but once or twice a game now, which could explain why he has less interceptions than Allen. Hunt throws most of his passes to the sidelines on swings and bubbles and long ball throws are 90% to the sidelines. So hunt's lower no.s might just be a product of limited play calling on passing plays over the middle. Allen would try to thread the needle and use more of the field, and just maybe our staff has figured out we have no tough W.R.'S who want to catch over the middle and take hits. The only games I can think of that we attacked the opponet's middle was an over matched wagner team Tulane teams after the first two games. So after the first four games we are a stuff it up the middle and hope we break the run and a pass it out to sidelines team offense. Maybe inserting Allen to start out the B.C. game would really confuse the game plan B.C. sets up.

This has been my biggest question. Why don't we use the middle of the field? It seems like nobody is ever schemed open or even asked to run routes. Like you said it's all bubble screens or deep balls. The 3 times we did target Wales they were completions. He proved last year he is more then capable. Why was he taken out? This is by far my biggest concern, and knowing whether this is McDonalds game plan, or Hunts limitations, may be an answer to a lot of our questions.

 

[anomander]

Yeah but the last staff wasn't recruiting for the new staff. I maintain the current kids fit the former staff's scheme and would've been a fine group for them. They also had a healthy Flemming, Hale and to some degree Foster, not to mention Funderburke. It just wasn't a priority position for them so I can't blame them at all. I’ll also say that prior to camp this past summer, I can only recall one or two people questioning the state of the current WR corp. 98% of the message board felt pretty good about our WR’s. This is all hindsight handwringing and I frankly think more a result of the OC and his ed passing scheme than the WR's.

I'm with you about this all being hindsight. Almost everyone was comfortable with the current receiving corp going into the season. The players Marrone had fit his system. West was supposed to have a break out year and step in as the #1 receiver. Wales was on the same trajectory as Provo. Funderburke was said to be the best receiver on our roster LAST SEASON. Plus throw in Kobena who had produced some,plus a healthy Flemming, and Foster. That's not even mentioning Lewis and Hale who seemed like prototypical Marrone WR.

 

[RF2044]

I'm with you about this all being hindsight. Almost everyone was comfortable with the current receiving corp going into the season. The players Marrone had fit his system. West was supposed to have a break out year and step in as the #1 receiver. Wales was on the same trajectory as Provo. Funderburke was said to be the best receiver on our roster LAST SEASON. Plus throw in Kobena who had produced some,plus a healthy Flemming, and Foster. That's not even mentioning Lewis and Hale who seemed like prototypical Marrone WR.

That's nonsense. "Almost everyone." There were plenty of posters who expressed the concern that the WR corps was TOTALLY unproven, and that just being next up doesn't elevate you from a #3 WR to a go to #1.

And my opinion only, but a lot of the quiet optimism seemed to stem from the notion that Funderburk would prove to be a difference maker, which he distinctly has not been.

We had numbers at WR, but that's about it.

 

[Timonen]

That's nonsense. "Almost everyone." There were plenty of posters who expressed the concern that the WR corps was TOTALLY unproven, and that just being next up doesn't elevate you from a #3 WR to a go to #1.

And my opinion only, but a lot of the quiet optimism seemed to stem from the notion that Funderburk would prove to be a difference maker, which he distinctly has not been.

We had numbers at WR, but that's about it.

eh, we had numbers AND decent experience between west and kobena. nobody was saying there wouldn't be a dropoff but it was reasonable to assume we'd be serviceable there...with fundy, broyld and estime offering real potential upside. if lsu is a 10 (two potential top picks this year), we were a 6.5 last year. i think we all assumed at least a 4-5 this year. we're a 2.