McDonald is the best hope for Syracuse football

[RF2044]

eh, we had numbers AND decent experience between west and kobena. nobody was saying there wouldn't be a dropoff but it was reasonable to assume we'd be serviceable there...with fundy, broyld and estime offering real potential upside. if lsu is a 10 (two potential top picks this year), we were a 6.5 last year. i think we all assumed at least a 4-5 this year. we're a 2.

We had decent experience with West--not Kobena, who only played the first couple of games last year, and didn't get back into the gameplan after getting injured.

And I stand by what I said above--we had numbers at WR, not necessarily quality. Getting to the ratings you suggest above would have necessitated a couple of things falling into place--West stepping up and emerging as a legitimate go to receiver, Funderburk being the real deal, Kobena providing a deep threat, and then lots of things with the other players in the unit. Problem is, none of those first three things happened--which is why the receiving corps is distinctly below average.

I'm not knocking your logic / assumptions heading into this year--but it seems more optimism-based than fact based. I, too, was hopeful that the WRs would go from a huge question mark to a positional unit of strength, but that didn't happen this year. The best thing I can say about the group is that Broyld took steps forward and had intermittent success, and frosh Estime / Cornelius seem promising.

Add in Williams / Cooper / Custis into the mix, to say nothing of Avant / Winfield, and things might be trending in the right direction.

 

[TheCusian]

What do you do when you don't have great skill position guys and a new OC? You recruit better guys and develop your young talent. It's your only option. You try to win with what you have, implementing your system to fit the existing talent.

 

[PhatOrange]

That's nonsense. "Almost everyone." There were plenty of posters who expressed the concern that the WR corps was TOTALLY unproven, and that just being next up doesn't elevate you from a #3 WR to a go to #1.

And my opinion only, but a lot of the quiet optimism seemed to stem from the notion that Funderburk would prove to be a difference maker, which he distinctly has not been.

We had numbers at WR, but that's about it.

Thats not how i remember it. most people said wr was fine. but of course a lot of the optimism hinged on Funderburke. We don't know what the issue is with him, but things might have also been different with Fund under the other regime.

 

[TheCusian]

Thats not how i remember it. most people said wr was fine. but of course a lot of the optimism hinged on Funderburke. We don't know what the issue is with him, but things might have also been different with Fund under the other regime.

It was a little bit of both. Clearly the "not enough talent" crowd won. I was optimistic and wrong.

 

[swish7]

Lastly, we don't have another choice. We need him to work out.

We're not going to get a coach that recruits better

In Cool Kid I trust.

While a big fan of the phrase "there's always a choice", I agree with the statement in bold above. It's the soundest element of your argument.

I asked this yesterday and didn't get a response. What has cool kid done on the recruiting trail? Specifically. For SU. I don't follow recruiting, and am curious.

 

[rrlbees]

Here's my opinion on the plays...GM is showing the recruits this is what we are going to do. Yes, giving the ball to Smith 30+ times may be the thing to do but that isn't selling recruits and it does look like the HS wr's have noticed. Maybe a step backwards but this also may be those huge steps forward that SU needs after.

That's why basketball wins and football loses. JB plays to win the game at hand.

I don't buy your thought process.

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[TheCusian]

That's why basketball wins and football loses. JB plays to win the game at hand. I don't buy your thought process. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Right or wrong, McDonald believes in his system 1st. He's recruiting his guys to run his style.

If JB started at some random school, do you think he'd run the 2-3 zone - despite the guys not being an ideal fit?!? Of course he would. Then he'd try to get guys who fit his system better.

 

[Millhouse]

Right or wrong, McDonald believes in his system 1st. He's recruiting his guys to run his style.

If JB started at some random school, do you think he'd run the 2-3 zone - despite the guys not being an ideal fit?!? Of course he would. Then he'd try to get guys who fit his system better.

this is his system? come on

drew allen and terrell hunt are very different. playing them both shoots down the idea that they're just trying to run their system come hell or high water.

they're trying to win this year, this isn't a rich rodriguez year 1 tank job

 

[rrlbees]

Right or wrong, McDonald believes in his system 1st. He's recruiting his guys to run his style. If JB started at some random school, do you think he'd run the 2-3 zone - despite the guys not being an ideal fit?!? Of course he would. Then he'd try to get guys who fit his system better.

My point was I didn't agree with the point that we were running a system we want recruits to see vs something that gives us the chance to win.

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[SmilinBob]

That's why basketball wins and football loses. JB plays to win the game at hand.

I don't buy your thought process.

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JB started out 100-24 and wasn't a dumpster fire when he took over. If JB has a 500 or so team, you might see him do things differently. JB also doesn't need to sell an empty house...actually, never has.

 

[Chip]

While a big fan of the phrase "there's always a choice", I agree with the statement in bold above. It's the soundest element of your argument.

I asked this yesterday and didn't get a response. What has cool kid done on the recruiting trail? Specifically. For SU. I don't follow recruiting, and am curious.

We have 2 QBs (one of which who will likely be moved) and 3 WRs coming in next year. All with the types of offers from other schools that we'd hope for, instead of beating out Central Michigan. I believe, but don't quote me, that McDonald was the lead recruiter for each of the 5.

I just hope he's able to pull in some OL as well, or else that might end up being useless (go back to the ARob getting killed year of 2007. Great WRs, no OL. Of course there were also no healthy RBs).

 

[Chip]

JB started out 100-24 and wasn't a dumpster fire when he took over. If JB has a 500 or so team, you might see him do things differently. JB also doesn't need to sell an empty house...actually, never has.

I don't think this was Bees main point, but I'll say it anyway. Comparing JB to the football program is like comparing an apple to a newspaper. The only similarity is that you can find them both in the same store.

 

[Chip]

That's nonsense. "Almost everyone." There were plenty of posters who expressed the concern that the WR corps was TOTALLY unproven, and that just being next up doesn't elevate you from a #3 WR to a go to #1.

And my opinion only, but a lot of the quiet optimism seemed to stem from the notion that Funderburk would prove to be a difference maker, which he distinctly has not been.

We had numbers at WR, but that's about it.

The ongoing thought on this board that West should have gone from a 3 to a 1 based on last year's stats is one I've questioned all year. I figured by now people would realize that he's not that player. Doesn't make him bad. Elevation by attrition isn't automatic. Especially when it's 2 spots you're jumping up, not 1.

 

[SmilinBob]

I don't think this was Bees main point, but I'll say it anyway. Comparing JB to the football program is like comparing an apple to a newspaper. The only similarity is that you can find them both in the same store.

Actually his point is that JB plays 7.5 guys and wants to do whatever he has to do to win the game at hand. He doesn't think about the next anything, the win is of the utmost priority.

 

[TheCusian]

this is his system? come on

drew allen and terrell hunt are very different. playing them both shoots down the idea that they're just trying to run their system come hell or high water.

they're trying to win this year, this isn't a rich rodriguez year 1 tank job

As I've stated previously - the reason it's ugly, is it's a hybrid: a mix of what he wished he could do and what's possible given the talent and skills of that talent. Of course they are trying to win - there is no benefit to tanking in college. But if you don't think they are waiting for the calvary to arrive, you should spend more time on the recruiting side of things...

 

[rrlbees]

JB started out 100-24 and wasn't a dumpster fire when he took over. If JB has a 500 or so team, you might see him do things differently. JB also doesn't need to sell an empty house...actually, never has.

Only saying that JB plays and has always played to win the game at hand with no thoughts of anything else. I believe Shafer is the same way. I do not believe we are doing some things to just "show recruits" even if it doesn't give us the best chance to win right now.

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[Millhouse]

As I've stated previously - the reason it's ugly, is it's a hybrid: a mix of what he wished he could do and what's possible given the talent and skills of that talent. Of course they are trying to win - there is no benefit to tanking in college. But if you don't think they are waiting for the calvary to arrive, you should spend more time on the recruiting side of things...

i never said they're not looking forward to better players.

i'm saying that nothing we're seeing this year can be dismissed as growing pains implementing a style to show recruits.

 

[SmilinBob]

Only saying that JB plays and has always played to win the game at hand with no thoughts of anything else. I believe Shafer is the same way. I do not believe we are doing some things to just "show recruits" even if it doesn't give us the best chance to win right now.

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I'm sure SS does bees. My thought process is that GM wants to put in his stuff so badly he is in a bind because of the talent on the team. This is why he's kind of doing this or doing that and imo we haven't really seen the kind of OC he is. I get your thought process as well and I agree, you bust your hump to win the game and worry about tomorrow tomorrow. It's just a funny world when it comes to recruiting and you never know what shiny thing kids want to see.

 

[TheCusian]

i never said they're not looking forward to better players.

i'm saying that nothing we're seeing this year can be dismissed as growing pains implementing a style to show recruits.

I don't think it's implementing a style to show recruits. I think it's implementing his style and schemes because that's what he was hired to do - a by product of which is both growing pains and and the need for talent to fit the scheme. He's going into a recruits home selling his style and scheme and pointing to a fit for the kid. That's recruiting 101.

 

[TheCusian]

The flip side argument is really odd: This is what he envisions and if you come here you too can drop a screen or fall on your @ss running the wild cat.

 

[Millhouse]

I don't think it's implementing a style to show recruits. I think it's implementing his style and schemes because that's what he was hired to do - a by product of which is both growing pains and and the need for talent to fit the scheme. He's going into a recruits home selling his style and scheme and pointing to a fit for the kid. That's recruiting 101.

this post reads like contradiction 101.

if this is the offense he actually wants to run, he should be fired immediately along with you and otto

you guys never address why they benched a passing qb for a runner.

they're making it up as they go. he's collected a bunch of from his previous 28 2 month internships and he's throwing it all against the wall. except passes in the middle of the field, we don't do that.

 

[swish7]

We have 2 QBs (one of which who will likely be moved) and 3 WRs coming in next year. All with the types of offers from other schools that we'd hope for, instead of beating out Central Michigan. I believe, but don't quote me, that McDonald was the lead recruiter for each of the 5.

I just hope he's able to pull in some OL as well, or else that might end up being useless (go back to the ARob getting killed year of 2007. Great WRs, no OL. Of course there were also no healthy RBs).

Thanks, appreciate it.

So one leg of the cool kid koolaid argument is currently those 5 guys? I get that, makes sense. I hope it becomes more.

The other leg is that we have no choice. Firing or demoting your lead recruiter whom also happens to be your suspect OC would be suicide.

IMO, every other aspect of the cool kid argument is koolaid. And, Go and I don't ever really agree or get along (on the internet at least). I hope the guy grows on the job, I really do.

 

[TheCusian]

this post reads like contradiction 101. if this is the offense he actually wants to run, he should be fired immediately along with you and otto you guys never address why they benched a passing qb for a runner. they're making it up as they go. he's collected a bunch of from his previous 28 2 month internships and he's throwing it all against the wall. except passes in the middle of the field, we don't do that.

They played Allen because they thought (somehow) that he was a threat to run. Remember all the noise coming out of camp about him being a better runner than anyone thought and it fitting McDonalds system? He was supposed to be the better thrower too - except for all of the throws to the other team. Hunt is closer to what he's after now.

But a better indicator would be to look at the 3 guys they have offered to and got verbals from since the McDonald era. Kimble, Edourd (sp?), Long - all dual threats.

It's a hybrid of what he wants to do - and what the talent dictates.

 

[rrlbees]

They played Allen because they thought (somehow) that he was a threat to run. Remember all the noise coming out of camp about him being a better runner than anyone thought and it fitting McDonalds system? He was supposed to be the better thrower too - except for all of the throws to the other team. Hunt is closer to what he's after now. But a better indicator would be to look at the 3 guys they have offered to and got verbals from since the McDonald era. Kimble, Edourd (sp?), Long - all dual threats. It's a hybrid of what he wants to do - and what the talent dictates.

Nobody will agree, but I think if Allen had remained the starter we'd have a much better passing game right now.

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[TheCusian]

Nobody will agree, but I think if Allen had remained the starter we'd have a much better passing game right now. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

I won't disagree. But I'd bet we wouldn't be in sniffing a bowl.