MCW-National Assist Leader

[OttoMets]

I believe that was fixed. At least the announcers on TV said something about how MCW had one less assist that they first announced because the first assist was credited to MCW when it should have been Fair.

Oh, that'd be good. Saw that it's still incorrect in the ESPN play-by-play, but maybe they just change the official box and leave that alone.

 

[JarHeadJim]

Not for nothing, but Mike got credited with the assist on the first basket of the game yesterday (Coleman's jumper) despite the fact that he never touched the ball on that possession. Triche drove, kicked out to C.J., and C.J. passed to Coleman on the baseline.

Wonder what the kid operating StatCrew (or whatever they use these days) was thinking. Hope they don't do that kind of thing very often. I've done the same job a million times and I know things get hectic and mistakes get made. We used to fix them after the fact, though, especially when they're as apparent as this one was.

Maybe they'll dial his total back to 12. I remember Etan Thomas being awarded a block in the 1999 UCLA game about a week afterward. He blocked a Dan Gadzuric shot very early, was never credited with it, and went the rest of the game with no blocks, snapping a pretty long streak of games with at least one block. Someone in our SID's office cared enough to check the tape and somehow modify the official statistics.

They changed it at the half and gave the Ast to Trich

 

[Knicks411]

I don't know if I ever mentioned this before, but I read a really interesting series of message board posts from guys who used to score NBA games, about how they were encouraged to give a block to the star big man if he was anywhere close to the play, and how they were encouraged to pad assist totals for guys like Stockton. Wish I could find it now.

 

[jdubs30]

I don't know if I ever mentioned this before, but I read a really interesting series of message board posts from guys who used to score NBA games, about how they were encouraged to give a block to the star big man if he was anywhere close to the play, and how they were encouraged to pad assist totals for guys like Stockton. Wish I could find it now.

Assist is more of a judgement call, but I see what you're saying. If MCW fed Rak in the post, who hit a quick turn around, it would be an assist, but if Rak took 3 or 4 dribbles then made a move, MCW might not credited with a dime.

 

[OttoMets]

Assist is more of a judgement call, but I see what you're saying. If MCW fed Rak in the post, who hit a quick turn around, it would be an assist, but if Rak took 3 or 4 dribbles then made a move, MCW might not credited with a dime.

Yeah, I've heard what Knicks said, too. Scorers are more liberal now than they were twenty years ago. We'd be told to give a guard an assist if he set up a shot, even if that shot came after 3 or 4 dribbles.

 

[OttoMets]

They changed it at the half and gave the Ast to Trich

Nice

 

[anglerman]

[quote="anglerman, post: 426062, member:

"JB just didn't want him in the NBA that is obvious. any one who thinks otherwise is in denial."

I would love to see you make that remark in person to JB.

I would have no problem telling him in person. There's no comparison in talent level between the 2 players and there never was. MCW will be a lottery pick and Scoop was just a decent point guard.

I recall JB pulling him last year when he played fantastic in certain games just as he has this year. There is no logical reason why he didnt play more. He was clearly better then all 3 players that got minutes. The guy you see this year is the guy I saw last year. My eyes did not not deceive me. He was just as much of a stud a year a go and could have really helped the team. BTW I didn't understand Joseph playing over JS either.

 

[nolacuse44]

I would have no problem telling him in person. There's no comparison in talent level between the 2 players and there never was. MCW will be a lottery pick and Scoop was just a decent point guard.

I recall JB pulling him last year when he played fantastic in certain games just as he has this year. There is no logical reason why he didnt play more. He was clearly better then all 3 players that got minutes. The guy you see this year is the guy I saw last year. My eyes did not not deceive me. He was just as much of a stud a year a go and could have really helped the team. BTW I didn't understand Joseph playing over JS either.

I wish you were the coach instead of the knucklehead we've got now.

 

[pearl31]

Oh Lord

 

[LennX6]

MCW has played VERY well this year. However i can see how he could have been turnover prone last year. What we needed was Scoops's steady hands.

I disagree. Watching MCW this year and he appears like he is toying with the other team.

 

[LennX6]

"Next year, it will be MY team" - Brandon Triche...every year.

Apparently so because Triche is spending a lot of time under the basket sniffing for O-Reb's. A lot more time than I remember him spending.

 

[br801]

The reason Scoop started last year was because Boeheim felt that offered the team the best chance to win the most games.

Bingo.

Damn that Boeheim for taking this crazy approach to coaching basketball.

 

[albanycuse]

Bingo.

Damn that Boeheim for taking this crazy approach to coaching basketball.

Nah its because scoop was a 5 th yr senior who did all the things asked of him. And was rewarded for it.

 

[rhcuse]

Mike came into a tough spot. SU was blessed with a 5-th year senior PG, a tough and productive junior who'd started every game in his career, and the NBA #4 draft pick coming off the bench. JAB, The Master, remained loyal to Scoop, put Dion in the right circumstance to showcase his skills both towards the team's success and his personal NBA goals, groom Brandon for senior leadship by not playing MCW over him, and all the while give just enough coaching and PT to Mike to allow him to burst forth with breakout year he has so far shown. I think we can all agree it turned out great for everyone as we all get to enjoy two fabulous years.

 

[ORANGEsPHK]

I don't get this thread. JS disappeared over stretches last year so I don't see how JS should have started or gotten more PT over KJo. KJo was also a main focus of defenses while JS was not. Scoop understood what JB wanted on the court, MCW was a freshman and as talented as he is I don't see how MCW would get PT over a more experienced guard that knew the system inside/out. Also, its only been a few games against lower level competition, let's see how this pans out. I think MCW is going to be great, but we've seen this every year where players show great promise early on and then fizzle come conference play - JS comes to mind.

Either way, we had an AMAZING regular season last year and to second guess that we would have been better with some of the bench players starting makes no sense. JB did a great job, we played great and had AMAZING chemistry until Fab decided to screw around and get suspended for the NCAAs.

I guess some people need something to complain about instead of just enjoying the team play well.

 

[PoppyHart]

I don't think the Scoop vs. MCW debate is as cut and dried as people think.

I liken it the 49ers right now. Do you play a guy that led you to a 13-3 record and thisclose to a SB, or do you go with a younger guy who you feel is capable of putting you over the edge?

I think we focus too much on W-L records for our own good. The goal is to be the last one standing, not to run the table in the regular season.

I don't know if MCW was the one to make that happen, but more playing time certainly would have brought things into greater focus.

 

[RF2044]

Nah its because scoop was a 5 th yr senior who did all the things asked of him. And was rewarded for it.

Nonsense. Scoop had a great senior year. Unless I'm mistaken, we simply didn't turn the ball over, and Scoop orchestrated perhaps the most potent transition attack in program history.

Honestly, people have short term memories around here. MCW was a great prospect and WILL be a great player--unquestionably. But to insinuate that he sat while less deserving players got PT is completely off-target in my opinion. 17-1 and 34-3 suggest that JB did the right thing, and didn't mishandle how backcourt minutes were dispensed. MCW's long term potential has no bearing on whether he should have played more last year--I'll trust JB's opinion over agenda driven posters' opinions any day.

 

[albanycuse]

Nonsense. Scoop had a great senior year. Unless I'm mistaken, we simply didn't turn the ball over, and Scoop orchestrated the greatest transition attack in program history.

Honestly, people have short term memories around here. MCW was a great prospect and WILL be a great player--unquestionably. But to insinuate that he sat while less deserving players got PT is completely off-target in my opinion.

He did have a great senior year distributing the ball, but to say he was better than Mcw is simply not true. Jb's not going to play a frosh over a senior pg ever,

 

[RF2044]

He did have a great senior year distributing the ball, but to say he was better than Mcw is simply not true. Jb's not going to play a frosh over a senior pg ever,

Not true from what perspective? I don't care whether MCW has greater long term pro potential, or whatever other metric you choose to apply--a more relevant question is whether MCW last year as a physically underdeveloped true frosh was better suited to quarterback the team than a fifth year senior was, who had a great year as you say above. JB believed that Scoop [and Dion and Triche] were better than MCW last year, which is why they played more than he did. Doesn't mean that all three [or any of them, for that matter] are "better" than MCW from an overall talent or in terms of projecting their respective long term potential, but it certainly stands to reason that they were better last year than MCW was, and more equipped to provide what the team needed than a skinny, inexperienced true frosh was. Which is why JB played them.

Lots of backup QB logic being applied in this thread, IMO.

 

[albanycuse]

Not true from what perspective? I don't care whether MCW has greater long term pro potential, or whatever other metric you choose to apply--a more relevant question is whether MCW last year as a physically underdeveloped true frosh was better suited to quarterback the team than a fifth year senior was, who had a great year as you say above. JB believed that Scoop [and Dion and Triche] were better than MCW last year, which is why they played more than he did. Doesn't mean that all three [or any of them, for that matter] are "better" than MCW from an overall talent or potential standpoint, but it certainly stands to reason that they were better last year than MCW was, and more equipped to provide what the team needed than a skinny, inexperienced true frosh was. Which is why JB played them.

Lots of backup QB logic being applied in this thread, IMO.

I think he deserved more pt. scoop had his moments where he was benched for poor play. Mcw could of gained more game experience.

 

[RF2044]

I think he deserved more pt. scoop had his moments where he was benched for poor play. Mcw could of gained more game experience.

That's fair, but here's an alternate perspective: not every single minute of PT is going to result in orgasm inducing spectacular play. Players having normal ups and downs in the ebb and flows of the season doesn't equate to them being inferior. Trust me, if MCW had been the starting point guard last year, he would have had a LOT of growing pains, instead of just being able to show exciting flashes of what he was capable of in games where there wasn't a ton of pressure on him [or the team] to execute while he was in the game. We got every team's best shot last year, and we were 10 deep. That gave JB the luxury of playing whoever was playing best on any given night, and taking advantage of beneficial matchups. When you have a 7 player rotation, you are locked into how your starters are performing. When you have a 10 man rotation like we had last year, where any of the 7 or 8 guys could lead the team in scoring any given night, you are bound to see different guys step up alternatively different games.

There were games when Dion sat, and people complained. There were games when Triche sat and people complained. And there were games when Scoop got benched. The common outcome: we won just about every game, so I don't buy the MMQB second guessing.

And from my perspective, sure it would have been nice to get MCW some extra developmental PT. But that wasn't the goal of the season--the goal was to win games. And JB went with the backcourt rotation that he felt gave the team the best chance to win every given game.

Honestly, MCW is a great player--very happy to have him, and love the kid's moxie. I hope that he IS our next lottery player, because if he lives up to that we're going to have a very good year. But I think he benefitted--a LOT--by practicing against three experienced guards last season, not having much pressure on him to produce, and getting the benefit of an experienced player like Scoop taking him under his wing from a tutelage perspective. To be clear: there is absolutely no question that MCW has more raw talent / potential than Scoop did. But fifth year Scoop versus frosh MCW--I think that JB made the right call, as evidenced by the dream season we had in all respects but one.

 

[Jake]

Michael is playing at another level this year, partly because hes allowed to run the show and dominate the ball. I'm not sure dion would have been as effective or as "thrilled" under those circumstances last year.

It really came down to leadership and chemistry over raw talent.

Two other nuggets- Dion and scoop were considered the most fearless and unflappable by coaches last year. They were not going to be intimidated in a big game environment.

Also, there was a point late in the season where discussions were had about increasing MCWs role, but they were discarded for the above reasons.

 

[pearl31]

Nah its because scoop was a 5 th yr senior who did all the things asked of him. And was rewarded for it.

Wow. You really ought to have your own personal SU hoops pay site for all this amazing insider knowledge you continually drop on us.

 

[albanycuse]

Wow. You really ought to have your own personal SU hoops pay site for all this amazing insider knowledge you continually drop on us.

Go play with someone else.

 

[albanycuse]

Coach K took senior paulus's starting job away from him.