Melo Bashing....

[Melancer46]

Dirk averaged 2.5 assist a game that year. Durant lost his PG that he had all year, Melo has the PGs that he had all year.

For the love of god, it is not about the assist numbers. Dirk moved the ball far more than Melo has. Durant tries to involve his teammates far more than Melo has. Assist totals do not tell that story.

 

[Melancer46]

Anyways, I'm off to watch the rest of the games tonight. Good conversation guys.

 

[Gabjon]

For the love of god, it is not about the assist numbers. Dirk moved the ball far more than Melo has. Durant tries to involve his teammates far more than Melo has. Assist totals do not tell that story.

Not true Kidd and Barea ran the offense Dirk finish plays. He didn't move the ball, he shot the ball and moved it out of the double team only!

 

[OrangeDW]

Please just read my posts. You're trying to call me out for making points that I'm not even making.

But at the end of the day, you're seeing what you want to see. Just because Melo is the only one scoring does not mean that he is being productive. Taking 25 shots to get 27 or 28 points a game isn't being productive. A guy that isn't shooting the ball well shouldn't be looking just to shoot. They should try to move the ball to get better shots.

Melo is also the only one rebounding, for the record. But he doesn't get credit for it.

I'd imagine Melo would be much more efficient if he had anyone to play with. Felton's been about half there, everyone else has been terrible. Melo hasn't been good(for him) but given the situation I think he's doing about as well as can be expected. How else are the Knicks going to score, the way everyone else is shooting/playing now?

 

[OrangeDW]

Well I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. Dirk passed the ball during that run at least two or three times more than Melo has this postseason IMO. That's the biggest reason the Mavs were one of my favorite teams to watch and the Knicks have been one of my least favorite.

I liked watching those Mavs because their irrational confidence gunner came through and tyson Chandler played like Tyson Chandler, while the Knicks irrational confidence gunner is shooting 28%, and Tyson Chandler is a shell of himself.

 

[OrangeDW]

This is minor, but that shot is what Dirk is famous for.

Yes...and Melo is known for making tough, contested mid range jumpers and literally cannot be guarded when he's got it rolling.

Not much difference in shot selection IMO.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Not true Kidd and Barea ran the offense Dirk finish plays. He didn't move the ball, he shot the ball and moved it out of the double team only!

He passed out of the double team. Exactly. And how often do you think dirk got double teamed? Exactly. Where are you heading with this?

 

[alphaorange]

No, it isn't fair to blame Melo for everything. But yes, I do think Lebron could beat Indiana if he had Melo's cast. And I understand that NO ONE in the league is as good as Lebron. He's probably the only player in the league I would say that about but Lebron is that good.

Then either you haven't been watching or you don't understand how basketball works. See, you have to make baskets to win. NY has had tons of open looks but has been unable to make a shot. Playing with James doesn't magically make other peoples shots go in and he can't score enough to win by himself...jesus, man.

 

[Gabjon]

He passed out of the double team. Exactly. And how often do you think dirk got double teamed? Exactly. Where are you heading with this?

Not that often!! He lead the team in FG attempts and FT attempts by a wide margin! He was 4th in assist!! He shot the ball!!!

 

[Knicks411]

I'm not even sure what's going on with this debate now.

My thoughts: Melo has played pretty poorly in this series, but he's not alone. JR has been terrible. Kidd has been a no show. Woodson has done a poor job coaching. Chandler was better last game but he has been real bad overall. Felton and Shump were good in the first 2 games, not as much the last 2, though I guess Ray was decent last night.

Melo is shooting below 40% and I would say he isn't one of the 5 biggest problems the team has right now, which should tell you something.

Playing with James doesn't magically make other peoples shots go in and he can't score enough to win by himself...jesus, man.

Not magically, no, but he gets his teammates more easy shots than anyone in the league. (according to the stat I just made up, but it seems right so I'm going with it)The way the Knicks are playing right now they might brick them all anyway

 

[SoBeCuse]

This thread is tiring to read. Too many homers sticking up for Melo when nobody really is bashing him. He is what he is. A great scorer. Period. That's it. Fortunately, the Knicks will put everybody out of their misery and get taken out tomorrow. I'll be looking forward to Pacers-Heat. That should be competitive.

 

[thebigeast44]

I said last week that I thought I was reading the Georgetown board with all the negative Melo comments. If Melo had 2 other all star caliber players like LeBron has in Miami, we would not be having these same conversations. But when you have a max contract guy (Amare) having no impact, you're not winning anything. Until Melo has 2 other all stars on the team in the same season, we'll never truly be able to know if he is able to lead a team to a championship. Unfortunately, due to so many bad personnel decisions the Knicks have made over the years, the Knicks have little chance of improving their roster significantly in the next couple years. Unless Amare regains his previous all star form, the Knicks have no chance to win it all.

 

[Gabjon]

Today I am expecting 3 different threads ripping Kevin Durant. One saying how Lebron with the same cast would have beaten Memphis, another questioning if Zack Randolph is better than Durant and the last one listing his numbers 5-21 fg 7TOs in a home elimination game and claim he is shooting to much and needs to move the ball and team will never win it all with Durant as their best player!...

 

[Knicks411]

I really don't think where Melo went to college should have any impact on what people say about Melo. Melo's play (or anyone else, for that matter) should stand on its own regardless of where he went to school. It seems like I usually come down more against Melo than the general sentiment on this board, but in this case, I'm more in the middle. But Melo has not played great in these playoffs. And really, he's not been good his entire playoff career as a Knick. He's shooting 39% from the field. He doesn't have Bosh and Wade on his team, that's true, but that seems like an easy cop-out to me. If he was playing great and the rest of the team around him was sucking, that's one thing. But he's basically playing pretty meh and the rest of the team is sucking.

People talk about Lkebron not winning a title until he played with Bosh and Wade, which is of course true, but he had the best record in the league twice without those guys, and with no other all star (Mo Williams, LOL) and won a playoff round every year. His last 2 years in Cleveland, when he fell short both times, his playoff averages were 32-9-7 on 51% shooting. If Melo was doing that and the Knicks were still losing because of how poorly everyone else was playing, he wouldn't be getting nearly the heat he has. Even Durant, who was awful last night, averaged a 31/9/6 on 46% shooting.

 

[Gabjon]

I really don't think where Melo went to college should have any impact on what people say about Melo. Melo's play (or anyone else, for that matter) should stand on its own regardless of where he went to school. It seems like I usually come down more against Melo than the general sentiment on this board, but in this case, I'm more in the middle. But Melo has not played great in these playoffs. And really, he's not been good his entire playoff career as a Knick. He's shooting 39% from the field. He doesn't have Bosh and Wade on his team, that's true, but that seems like an easy cop-out to me. If he was playing great and the rest of the team around him was sucking, that's one thing. But he's basically playing pretty meh and the rest of the team is sucking.


And yeah, Durant was terrible last night.

You are a Knicks fan as am I so I get it's emotional for you, but no team has won a NBA final with one great player. In playoff basketball defenses load up against the best player (Melo, Durant, Lebron, etc.) it is why big shot Bob and others have hit big shots (the ball is forced out of the best player's hands). That is how the game is played! If you take Westbrook off OKC teams will load up against Durant. Durant's numbers will go down his TOs will go up these things are not unrelated. Westbrook's speed and attacking style forces the defense to react to him or he will be dunking the ball all night. This gives Durant a freedom of movement that allows him to be as efficient as he has been all year. The same thing is true with the Knicks. The 30-2 run the Knicks went on in game 2 was because Melo's teammates started to hit shots and then he was able to get to the hole and score, when guys aren't hitting shots you give the ball to your best player and tell him to shoot. That is basketball every coach coaches that way every team plays that way. If that guy misses and they lose then he is crushed for it, Lebron was 5-14 last night and missed a ton of big shots but D. Wade saved his bacon in the 4th quarter so nobody cares. This is about basketball for me not Melo, but since this is a SU board and Melo is the best player on the Knicks and there are so many SU/Knicks fans on this board so he gets killed when the Knicks lose. The fact is he doesn't have D. Wade to save his bacon and without Westbrook taking the pressure off Durant isn't any better than Melo. It's a team game! If a team can win by stopping one guy they will win! The Knicks have 3 guys who aren't scoring so the defense will load up against Melo and it will effect his shooting percentage. Defense does work! In the last game JR, Iman, KMart, and JKidd went 7-33 from the field...but that's Melo's fault!

 

[Knicks411]

In the last game JR, Iman, KMart, and JKidd went 7-33 from the field...but that's Melo's fault!

Right, and if you read my posts, I'm not blaming him for that. Also, the really sad thing about that is JR went 7-21;' so the last three guys you mentioned scored no field goals.

My point has been it's not like Melo is playing great ball right now and his teammates are sucking. Melo isn't playing very well, and most of his teammates are playing even worse. Do you think that's fair? It seems like the sense I'm getting from some is that because Melo's teammates are playing horribly basically you can't hold anything against Melo. I don't agree with that. I also don't agree you should hold the horrible play of his teammates against him.

And on OKC, my god, Derek Fisher played 31 minutes last night.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Right, and if you read my posts, I'm not blaming him for that. Also, the really sad thing about that is JR went 7-21;' so the last three guys you mentioned scored no field goals.

My point has been it's not like Melo is playing great ball right now and his teammates are sucking. Melo isn't playing very well, and most of his teammates are playing even worse. Do you think that's fair? It seems like the sense I'm getting from some is that because Melo's teammates are playing horribly basically you can't hold anything against Melo. I don't agree with that. I also don't agree you should hold the horrible play of his teammates against him.

And on OKC, my god, Derek Fisher played 31 minutes last night.

Seems logical to me. I can only imagine how bad it would be for Melo if JR was completely out the way Westbrook has been. Memphis and Indiana D is really really good. Lots of hustle and commitment to it. For me, it's the Knicks guards who are really subpar compared to the other playoff teams. Their three PGs getting minutes specifically.

 

[Knicks411]

yeah, Memphis and Indiana are also probably the two best defenses in the league.

I was going to call Kidd a zero at this point, but i think that is kind. He's a negative to the Knicks right now. Felton, who I am not much of a fan of, is, IMO, a perfectly fine PG. He's not a PG who is driving you to a title or anything. Perfectly fine may not cut it in round 2 of the playoffs. I l ike Prigioni, but he is what he is. He's 36 years old and he's not going to be playing 35 minutes a game. But he should be taking Kidd's minutes for sure.

 

[Gabjon]

Right, and if you read my posts, I'm not blaming him for that. Also, the really sad thing about that is JR went 7-21;' so the last three guys you mentioned scored no field goals.

My point has been it's not like Melo is playing great ball right now and his teammates are sucking. Melo isn't playing very well, and most of his teammates are playing even worse. Do you think that's fair? It seems like the sense I'm getting from some is that because Melo's teammates are playing horribly basically you can't hold anything against Melo. I don't agree with that. I also don't agree you should hold the horrible play of his teammates against him.

And on OKC, my god, Derek Fisher played 31 minutes last night.

I think you are being reasonable my point is the two are not unrelated. If your teammate are shooting horribly the defense will load up against you and your percentage will go down. The nights where one player carries a team few and far between and don't happen 4 out of 7 games.

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[jimsonjunction]

Melo knows that this type of heat comes with the territory. It's part of being the moneyman in NYC. The fact is, everyone on the team was great during the season, and they're wilting under the pressure of Indiana's defense.

If the Knicks can't rise from the dead, I really hope we get an Indiana/Memphis series. David Stern would have a stroke, and true hoops fans would eat it up.

 

[Gabjon]

Seems logical to me. I can only imagine how bad it would be for Melo if JR was completely out the way Westbrook has been. Memphis and Indiana D is really really good. Lots of hustle and commitment to it. For me, it's the Knicks guards who are really subpar compared to the other playoff teams. Their three PGs getting minutes specifically.

And Reggie Jackson has played better than JR...

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[Knicks411]

I think you are being reasonable my point is the two are not unrelated. If your teammate are shooting horribly the defense will load up against you and your percentage will go down. The nights where one player carries a team few and far between and don't happen 4 out of 7 games.

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That's fair, but it also goes both ways, which is my point. It's harder for the role players to get off when the star isn't playing great.

If the Knicks can't rise from the dead, I really hope we get an Indiana/Memphis series. David Stern would have a stroke, and true hoops fans would eat it up.

The first part is for sure true, but I'm not sure that "true hoop fans" would love it. I'm a Knicks fan, obviously I want them in there. But taking them out, I think the most fun series would be Miami vs San Antonio. (Maybe Golden state, but that one would probably be a cake walk for Miami)

Indiana kind of plays a pretty ugly style of ball. Give me teams spreading the court with shooters and going small all day long

 

[Gabjon]

That's fair, but it also goes both ways, which is my point. It's harder for the role players to get off when the star isn't playing great.

Melo shot 50% for the first 3quarters

Indiana kind of plays a pretty ugly style of ball. Give me teams spreading the court with shooters and going small all day long

The Spurs can't beat the Heat. To beat them you need to ugly up the game. Indiana or Memphis are the only teams that can play that way.

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[Knicks411]

I don't think anyone is beating Miami, but I'm just talking from the point of which series I would rather watch

 

[Gabjon]

I don't think anyone is beating Miami, but I'm just talking from the point of which series I would rather watch

Memphis might. Miami doesn't play well against size that can score and Memphis is the best team in the league in that regard. Who do up put on Zebo? How defends Gasol in the post?