Mike Hopkins and UW

[jgeorge322]

That was nearly 5 decades ago, when SU was a regional program, before we were part of a major conference, and well before college basketball became big business.

We shouldn't be following a template that is nearly 50 years old, as an analogy for what we should do today.

this is a strong rebuttal haha

 

[two3zone]

How about Carmelo?

Needs a degree.

 

[BigNastyJon]

Needs a degree.

I’m sure SU could print something out for him

 

[Cusefan0307]

I love the Jason Hart idea.

 

[miamicuse]

What about Geno Thrope?

 

[capeorange]

What about Geno Thrope?

Who?

 

[miamicuse]

I think one factor that may affect the eventusl HC decision or candidates is how much JB will be around the program.

If JB retires, moves to Miami, or he moves to where his kids land their jobs to be close to his grand kids, that's one thing.

If after JB retires, and the school retains him as a "coach emeritus", with the new coach feeling obligated to get his blessing on things, consult with him on big decisions, and with JB regularly attending fund raiser events, that's another thing altogether.

There are different angles to continuity, and an outside qualified coach who wants to establish his own identity may not want to walk into this situation.

 

[HoustonCuse]

RF I think you are missing the point to some degree. I am in the camp that the next HC will be an alum. Does that artificially limit the candidate pool to some options that would not win out in a national search: sure it does. But the point above is absolutely right, JB casts a very big shadow over this program and will even after he is retired and even after he passes. Wildhack cannot ignore that, what do boosters value in terms of loyalty? How would JB react to someone other than “his guys” getting the reigns even when he makes a different recommendation? You know he ain’t moving to Del Boca Vista Phase II when he retires. He, and his best friend the richest guy in upstate NY (apparently) aren’t going any place.

If you’re Wildhack, you know there is risk going from a HOF coach to anyone new (that you can afford). So why take that risk and ALSO potentially drive a gigantic wedge between the alumni, former players, legendary coach, boosters, and existing staff? He’s in a tough spot, with little chance of a perfect solution presenting itself.

That is why I believe he will take the calculated risk and hire an alum. And given that, I’d take Hopkins first. Although I have to feel that Autry is the prohibitive favorite. I don’t see it being Gerry, it’s just not a tenable answer at this time.

 

[RF2044]

What point exactly am I missing? That some of you believe that the hire has to be an in-house candidate, because JB casts a big shadow?

I just don't agree with the notion that JB is going to hand-pick his successor, or that the AD is going to limit himself to the in-house candidates, because it would be foolish to do so.

I understand your logic. But the on-court results DO NOT warrant a continuity hire. And as we slip further into mediocrity [this year isn't looking like an NCAA caliber team], I expect that the AD will have even less incentive to maintain a subpar status quo. JB has already approached the AD with a proposal to set up another coach in waiting arrangement, and was politely [and quietly] declined.

Also, the slippage we're seeing in program performance isn't just on JB, it's also on this group of assistant coaches. I get the impression that a lot of fans posting here don't watch much college basketball outside of Syracuse games. When you do, you'll see top 25 programs that execute well on offense, pass the ball well, don't treat rebounding as optional, have solid post play, etc. etc. etc. What's becoming increasingly clear to me is that this group of coaches doesn't excel at teaching the game, or at recruiting. That's why we've become one-dimensional and unathletic.

It is highly unrealistic to expect this to change when JB steps away if one of these two gets promoted. If these guys were good at teaching, then we'd see better execution on the court. Look at how Villanova passes the ball, and look at how we resort to iso play with a group of personnel that are poorly suited for it. Do those two offenses look remotely similar?

The two guys on the bench are not qualified to take over. Neither is Hopkins. If we anonymized Hopkins's name and listed out how the past three years have unfolded record-wise, it would be absurd to think of that guy as a candidate.

I'm very disappointed that a segment of the board has allowed their expectations for the program to slip so low. We aren't even a top 25 team anymore. We aren't anywhere close to competing for national championships. Outside of a couple of improbable sweet 16 runs, this has been an extended decline that has lasted for several years. The way to stop that decline is not to bring in unqualified candidates. It is to bring in someone with a proven track record of head coaching success, who can infuse the program with new energy and new ideas for how to play on both sides of the ball.

Again, I'm not sure what point I'm missing. The further JB allows the program to slip, the less influence over the eventual hire he is going to have. That's the flaw I see in your conclusion.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

No he wasn't. He has been the most successful coach in Cleveland since Marty Shot and Bud Carson before him in the mid 80s

Cleveland Browns

Cleveland Browns Home: The official source of the latest Browns headlines, news, videos, photos, tickets, rosters, stats, schedule, and gameday information

www.clevelandbrowns.com

Thirty plus years

Wikipedia says he was 36-44 and had only one winning season there.

I was talking about the perception of him at the time, not retrospection.

And still, this isn’t the point.

 

[hoopsupstate]

What point exactly am I missing? That some of you believe that the hire has to be an in-house candidate, because JB casts a big shadow?

I just don't agree with the notion that JB is going to hand-pick his successor, or that the AD is going to limit himself to the in-house candidates, because it would be foolish to do so.

I understand your logic. But the on-court results DO NOT warrant a continuity hire. And as we slip further into mediocrity [this year isn't looking like an NCAA caliber team], I expect that the AD will have even less incentive to maintain a subpar status quo. JB has already approached the AD with a proposal to set up another coach in waiting arrangement, and was politely [and quietly] declined.

Also, the slippage we're seeing in program performance isn't just on JB, it's also on this group of assistant coaches. I get the impression that a lot of fans posting here don't watch much college basketball outside of Syracuse games. When you do, you'll see top 25 programs that execute well on offense, pass the ball well, don't treat rebounding as optional, have solid post play, etc. etc. etc. What's becoming increasingly clear to me is that this group of coaches doesn't excel at teaching the game, or at recruiting. That's why we've become one-dimensional and unathletic.

It is highly unrealistic to expect this to change when JB steps away if one of these two gets promoted. If these guys were good at teaching, then we'd see better execution on the court. Look at how Villanova passes the ball, and look at how we resort to iso play with a group of personnel that are poorly suited for it. Do those two offenses look remotely similar?

The two guys on the bench are not qualified to take over. Neither is Hopkins. If we anonymized Hopkins's name and listed out how the past three years have unfolded record-wise, it would be absurd to think of that guy as a candidate.

I'm very disappointed that a segment of the board has allowed their expectations for the program to slip so low. We aren't even a top 25 team anymore. We aren't anywhere close to competing for national championships. Outside of a couple of improbable sweet 16 runs, this has been an extended decline that has lasted for several years. The way to stop that decline is not to bring in unqualified candidates. It is to bring in someone with a proven track record of head coaching success, who can infuse the program with new energy and new ideas for how to play on both sides of the ball.

Again, I'm not sure what point I'm missing. The further JB allows the program to slip, the less influence over the eventual hire he is going to have. That's the flaw I see in your conclusion.

We’re not really a top 50 program anymore. We’re not signing difference makers anymore.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We’re not really a top 50 program anymore. We’re not signing difference makers anymore.

Lol stupid. We are most definitely a top 50
program.

 

[NKR1978]

We’re not really a top 50 program anymore. We’re not signing difference makers anymore.

How many programs have our March success in the last 5 NCAA tournaments?

 

[ORRange]

What point exactly am I missing? That some of you believe that the hire has to be an in-house candidate, because JB casts a big shadow?

I just don't agree with the notion that JB is going to hand-pick his successor, or that the AD is going to limit himself to the in-house candidates, because it would be foolish to do so.

I understand your logic. But the on-court results DO NOT warrant a continuity hire. And as we slip further into mediocrity [this year isn't looking like an NCAA caliber team], I expect that the AD will have even less incentive to maintain a subpar status quo. JB has already approached the AD with a proposal to set up another coach in waiting arrangement, and was politely [and quietly] declined.

Also, the slippage we're seeing in program performance isn't just on JB, it's also on this group of assistant coaches. I get the impression that a lot of fans posting here don't watch much college basketball outside of Syracuse games. When you do, you'll see top 25 programs that execute well on offense, pass the ball well, don't treat rebounding as optional, have solid post play, etc. etc. etc. What's becoming increasingly clear to me is that this group of coaches doesn't excel at teaching the game, or at recruiting. That's why we've become one-dimensional and unathletic.

It is highly unrealistic to expect this to change when JB steps away if one of these two gets promoted. If these guys were good at teaching, then we'd see better execution on the court. Look at how Villanova passes the ball, and look at how we resort to iso play with a group of personnel that are poorly suited for it. Do those two offenses look remotely similar?

The two guys on the bench are not qualified to take over. Neither is Hopkins. If we anonymized Hopkins's name and listed out how the past three years have unfolded record-wise, it would be absurd to think of that guy as a candidate.

I'm very disappointed that a segment of the board has allowed their expectations for the program to slip so low. We aren't even a top 25 team anymore. We aren't anywhere close to competing for national championships. Outside of a couple of improbable sweet 16 runs, this has been an extended decline that has lasted for several years. The way to stop that decline is not to bring in unqualified candidates. It is to bring in someone with a proven track record of head coaching success, who can infuse the program with new energy and new ideas for how to play on both sides of the ball.

Again, I'm not sure what point I'm missing. The further JB allows the program to slip, the less influence over the eventual hire he is going to have. That's the flaw I see in your conclusion.

This is the best post I've ever read on this board. I totally agree and it's Mark Few or Nate Oates or bust for me. We have become so unathletic its amazing. Not long ago we use to run teams into submission. I want no more of this. Hire within is absurd.

 

[HoustonCuse]

What point exactly am I missing? That some of you believe that the hire has to be an in-house candidate, because JB casts a big shadow?

I just don't agree with the notion that JB is going to hand-pick his successor, or that the AD is going to limit himself to the in-house candidates, because it would be foolish to do so.

I understand your logic. But the on-court results DO NOT warrant a continuity hire. And as we slip further into mediocrity [this year isn't looking like an NCAA caliber team], I expect that the AD will have even less incentive to maintain a subpar status quo. JB has already approached the AD with a proposal to set up another coach in waiting arrangement, and was politely [and quietly] declined.

Also, the slippage we're seeing in program performance isn't just on JB, it's also on this group of assistant coaches. I get the impression that a lot of fans posting here don't watch much college basketball outside of Syracuse games. When you do, you'll see top 25 programs that execute well on offense, pass the ball well, don't treat rebounding as optional, have solid post play, etc. etc. etc. What's becoming increasingly clear to me is that this group of coaches doesn't excel at teaching the game, or at recruiting. That's why we've become one-dimensional and unathletic.

It is highly unrealistic to expect this to change when JB steps away if one of these two gets promoted. If these guys were good at teaching, then we'd see better execution on the court. Look at how Villanova passes the ball, and look at how we resort to iso play with a group of personnel that are poorly suited for it. Do those two offenses look remotely similar?

The two guys on the bench are not qualified to take over. Neither is Hopkins. If we anonymized Hopkins's name and listed out how the past three years have unfolded record-wise, it would be absurd to think of that guy as a candidate.

I'm very disappointed that a segment of the board has allowed their expectations for the program to slip so low. We aren't even a top 25 team anymore. We aren't anywhere close to competing for national championships. Outside of a couple of improbable sweet 16 runs, this has been an extended decline that has lasted for several years. The way to stop that decline is not to bring in unqualified candidates. It is to bring in someone with a proven track record of head coaching success, who can infuse the program with new energy and new ideas for how to play on both sides of the ball.

Again, I'm not sure what point I'm missing. The further JB allows the program to slip, the less influence over the eventual hire he is going to have. That's the flaw I see in your conclusion.

First, you seem mad at us.

Second, it is not that we (or I at least) are advocating for an in house hire, just think it is the least riskiest option for JW and what he is likely to do.

The point I think you are missing is that I am not saying it’s a good idea for on court performance, just that I think it is what will happen.

 

[HoustonCuse]

This is the best post I've ever read on this board. I totally agree and it's Mark Few or Nate Oates or bust for me. We have become so unathletic its amazing. Not long ago we use to run teams into submission. I want no more of this. Hire within is absurd.

But when you say names like Mark Few, it’s so absurd that I’m not sure how to calibrate what your opinion is. It’s a fantasy so outside the realm of possibility that it doesn’t bear talking about. I mean Mark Few??? In what world would that ever happen?

 

[AZOrange]

What point exactly am I missing? That some of you believe that the hire has to be an in-house candidate, because JB casts a big shadow?

I just don't agree with the notion that JB is going to hand-pick his successor, or that the AD is going to limit himself to the in-house candidates, because it would be foolish to do so.

I understand your logic. But the on-court results DO NOT warrant a continuity hire. And as we slip further into mediocrity [this year isn't looking like an NCAA caliber team], I expect that the AD will have even less incentive to maintain a subpar status quo. JB has already approached the AD with a proposal to set up another coach in waiting arrangement, and was politely [and quietly] declined.

Also, the slippage we're seeing in program performance isn't just on JB, it's also on this group of assistant coaches. I get the impression that a lot of fans posting here don't watch much college basketball outside of Syracuse games. When you do, you'll see top 25 programs that execute well on offense, pass the ball well, don't treat rebounding as optional, have solid post play, etc. etc. etc. What's becoming increasingly clear to me is that this group of coaches doesn't excel at teaching the game, or at recruiting. That's why we've become one-dimensional and unathletic.

It is highly unrealistic to expect this to change when JB steps away if one of these two gets promoted. If these guys were good at teaching, then we'd see better execution on the court. Look at how Villanova passes the ball, and look at how we resort to iso play with a group of personnel that are poorly suited for it. Do those two offenses look remotely similar?

The two guys on the bench are not qualified to take over. Neither is Hopkins. If we anonymized Hopkins's name and listed out how the past three years have unfolded record-wise, it would be absurd to think of that guy as a candidate.

I'm very disappointed that a segment of the board has allowed their expectations for the program to slip so low. We aren't even a top 25 team anymore. We aren't anywhere close to competing for national championships. Outside of a couple of improbable sweet 16 runs, this has been an extended decline that has lasted for several years. The way to stop that decline is not to bring in unqualified candidates. It is to bring in someone with a proven track record of head coaching success, who can infuse the program with new energy and new ideas for how to play on both sides of the ball.

Again, I'm not sure what point I'm missing. The further JB allows the program to slip, the less influence over the eventual hire he is going to have. That's the flaw I see in your conclusion.

Your rationale is exactly why the pool of candidates will be limited and alum focused. There are really no reasons for someone like Oats or Few to ever come here

 

[two3zone]

Your rationale is exactly why the pool of candidates will be limited and alum focused. There are really no reasons for someone like Oats or Few to ever come here

Someone like Oats was available and 120 miles from us just a couple years ago. It probably would’ve been scoffed at around here if we hired him if there was an opening. It’s as if we don’t get Jay Wright we’re stuck with Gmac and there is no middle ground and it’s absurd.

 

[dollarbill44]

You really wanna chance that? For every Bill Belichick there are 10 terrible coaches who do nothing

He actually wasn't a joke with the Browns. He took them to the playoffs and in his 3rd season after a sizable roster retool. He had a great staff under him and a solid front office. The problem was the owner who sabotaged the 1995 season to cover his own failures in business and ownership.

 

[orangedave]

This is the best post I've ever read on this board. I totally agree and it's Mark Few or Nate Oates or bust for me. We have become so unathletic its amazing. Not long ago we use to run teams into submission. I want no more of this. Hire within is absurd.

If you really want to narrow it down to Few or Oates you are living in some strange world that doesn't deal with reality.

 

[baggerbob]

If you really want to narrow it down to Few or Oates you are living in some strange world that doesn't deal with reality.

This program isn 't going to get better anytime soon. I like the fact the 5 new recruits finally are athletes, but can they play basketball.
The big thing is will JB remember how to let players who can get out and run, go back to the days where we pressed, played man, and were uptempo?
Unfortunately I think he has forgotten, how we played when he started out as the Head Coach.
For me that time was and always will be Syracuse basketball, not this s******w he has put on the floor the past 5 or 6 years.

 

[RF2044]

Your rationale is exactly why the pool of candidates will be limited and alum focused. There are really no reasons for someone like Oats or Few to ever come here

Considering I never mentioned Few nor Oates, I'm not sure why you responded to my post with that.

 

[RF2044]

First, you seem mad at us.

Second, it is not that we (or I at least) are advocating for an in house hire, just think it is the least riskiest option for JW and what he is likely to do.

The point I think you are missing is that I am not saying it’s a good idea for on court performance, just that I think it is what will happen.

First, I'm not mad -- I'm just at a loss to understand how people watching our team underachieve / decline for an extended period of time can honestly, genuinely believe that the way out of the rut is to choose between two guys who are not only part of the reason we aren't performing at a high level, and who combined have ZERO offers over their combined 40+ years of assistant coaching to become a head coach anywhere.

Second, in actuality, an in house hire would be the MOST risky option for JW, because it would almost assure that the decline would continue.

You know the best way to avoid that outcome? Do due diligence, and hire the best candidate available to us instead of artificially constraining ourselves to subpar [putting it mildly] options.

 

[721Comstock]

First, I'm not mad -- I'm just at a loss to understand how people watching our team underachieve / decline for an extended period of time can honestly, genuinely believe that the way out of the rut is to choose between two guys who are not only part of the reason we aren't performing at a high level, and who combined have ZERO offers over their combined 40+ years of assistant coaching to become a head coach anywhere.

Second, in actuality, an in house hire would be the MOST risky option for JW, because it would almost assure that the decline would continue.

You know the best way to avoid that outcome? Do due diligence, and hire the best candidate available to us instead of artificially constraining ourselves to subpar [putting it mildly] options.

RF - don’t hold back, man!!
Tell us how you really feel!

I am 144% in agreement with you.

We should NOT artificially constrain our future coaching search solely to people who once played for JB at Cuse.

IF we were in the Top 25 on the regular, contending for ACC championships and protected seeds more often than not (like Dook & UNC typically do) -
then YES! -
a continuity hire makes all the sense in the world.

But we aren’t.
So it doesn’t.

2 things I’m pretty sure of:
Guys like Hop, Red, Hart, GMac - will likely all be part of the initial list.
At least an equal number (ideally more) of NON-Syracuse guys will/should also be considered.

If that 2nd part doesn’t happen, ADJW is committing malfeasance.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

First, I'm not mad -- I'm tired of people suggesting that the best course of action is to pick from two guys who combined have ZERO offers over their combined 40+ years of assistant coaching to become a head coach anywhere.

The ship is sinking, the program is declining, and still people suggest that the way out of that situation is to keep things the same. To which I say...

Second, in actuality, an in house hire would be the MOST risky option for JW.

I think it's hard to quantify the risks involved for JW. Let's break it down into1, 2 and 3 and thinking how difficult it is to replace a legend. Not easy to replace JAB's body of work, including some good post season results lately but below average (for JAB) regular season results. However, the man has never had a losing regular season record. That is a lot of pressure for someone new. Especially with no Mickey D's on the roster. But if the transfer portal stays as is, then we can take chances with the best fit.

Here are the choices in no particular order

1) An in-house assistant or someone else previously connected to the program. You think it's the riskiest. I think it's the least risky. Reason being that if the losing streak ends, let someone we know be the sacrificial lamb. Like a Matt Doherty was at UNC. AP COY his first season at UNC and then 8-20 his next season. Would JW do that to GMAC or Red. I hope not but unless he pulls a pearl out of an oyster, I think this is what he will do.

2) A successful mid major like King Rice of Monmouth who has done pretty well in the MAAC. A young gun with real solid results. Someone who is looking to get paid and would bring a fresh atmosphere with a lot of energy. This would be the category I would like to choose from. Plus, it gives GMAC and Red an opportunity to go be a head coach somewhere for future hiring purposes.

3) A successful high major. If it's not Oats, what other high major might come here? Would Ed Cooley come here? Kevin Willard (hopefully never offered)? Would the fan base be happy with someone like Fran McCaffery? I'm not convinced a successful high major coach would come here. JW would have to do a major sell with lots of cash. And even then, it's a risky hire. None of those guys have the consistent results that JAB has had. I think this is the riskiest hire. If we pay someone lots of money, they better produce.