Mike Hopkins hired a new

[20Plus]

Dasher Nailed it

 

[rhcuse]

I think "the contract" has been misconstrued by some. IMO, it did not guarantee Hop the job, but rather allowed him compensation if SU should choose NOT to appoint him head coach. Yes, it was probably both parties intent at the time of the signing for the transistion to occur, but SU was not mandated to make him coach. While the contract both protected and incentivised both parties along a planned series of events, each retained a choice in the final outcome.

Being gauranteed the job vs. a buyout if not given the job are two completely different things. JW and JB are correct when they say there was a contract in
place to allow for transistion, however, it could be executed to multiple outcomes. I think some people think it could only have ended with MH as head coach.

 

[chakka3421]

I think "the contract" has been misconstrued by some. IMO, it did not guarantee Hop the job, but rather allowed him compensation if SU should choose NOT to appoint him head coach. Yes, it was probably both parties intent at the time of the signing for the transistion to occur, but SU was not mandated to make him coach. While the contract both protected and incentivised both parties along a planned series of events, each retained a choice in the final outcome.

Being gauranteed the job vs. a buyout if not given the job are two completely different things. JW and JB are correct when they say there was a contract in
place to allow for transistion, however, it could be executed to multiple outcomes. I think some people think it could only have ended with MH as head coach.

Hmmm. My original source keeps telling me whatever "agreement" that was in place it was not "ironclad". Thanks for the clarification as this is similar to what I was told.

However, others with good sources content strongly that a "contract" was indeed in place with a substantial penalty. Will just have to let it rest here...

 

[sufandu]

SU fans are certainly not unique. I'd say the fan bases of all major college sports programs probably behave similarly.

Sure, but past success strongly influences future expectations (look at Northwestern's reaction to making the tournament). It's no different than the grace we give the football team compared to teams in the SEC.

 

[dollarbill44]

I think "the contract" has been misconstrued by some. IMO, it did not guarantee Hop the job, but rather allowed him compensation if SU should choose NOT to appoint him head coach. Yes, it was probably both parties intent at the time of the signing for the transistion to occur, but SU was not mandated to make him coach. While the contract both protected and incentivised both parties along a planned series of events, each retained a choice in the final outcome.

Being gauranteed the job vs. a buyout if not given the job are two completely different things. JW and JB are correct when they say there was a contract in
place to allow for transistion, however, it could be executed to multiple outcomes. I think some people think it could only have ended with MH as head coach.

Many guaranteed contracts have termination clauses by one or both parties. It would be shocking to me that any contract like this wouldn't have a termination for convenience by either party subject to penalty/compensation. It gets you to the same place ultimately without having to take it to court if one party breaches.

 

[AZOrange]

Hmmm. My original source keeps telling me whatever "agreement" that was in place it was not "ironclad". Thanks for the clarification as this is similar to what I was told.

However, others with good sources content strongly that a "contract" was indeed in place with a substantial penalty. Will just have to let it rest here...

Rhcuse is spot on here and frankly that is why so many people interpret it differently. If there is a disincentive for Cuse to not make Hop the coach that is not the same as him having a contract to be coach. They're similar but not the same.

And (not directed at you Chakka) but there's no such thing as "ironclad" in a contractual sense as to whether another party can breach. It's what happens after the breach that makes the contract valuable.

 

[AZOrange]

Many guaranteed contracts have termination clauses by one or both parties. It would be shocking to me that any contract like this wouldn't have a termination for convenience by either party subject to penalty/compensation. It gets you to the same place ultimately without having to take it to court if one party breaches.

Absolutely. It's basically an option contract of sorts with liquidated damages. And the out for SU is UW...

 

[AZOrange]

Also the reported contract killer for Hop at USC and Charlotte was the "return home" provision. I guess either he didn't get it or UW didn't care. I'd guess the former because they insisted the coach consider it a "destination" job. Lol.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I think "the contract" has been misconstrued by some. IMO, it did not guarantee Hop the job, but rather allowed him compensation if SU should choose NOT to appoint him head coach. Yes, it was probably both parties intent at the time of the signing for the transistion to occur, but SU was not mandated to make him coach. While the contract both protected and incentivised both parties along a planned series of events, each retained a choice in the final outcome.

Being gauranteed the job vs. a buyout if not given the job are two completely different things. JW and JB are correct when they say there was a contract in
place to allow for transistion, however, it could be executed to multiple outcomes. I think some people think it could only have ended with MH as head coach.

No, the contract promised Hop the job. That's what a HCIW contract is. And if Hop wasn't named the head coach by X date, the university pays Mike a penalty. Like Boeheim said, it was set in stone.

 

[rhcuse]

No, the contract promised Hop the job. That's what a HCIW contract is. And if Hop wasn't named the head coach by X date, the university pays Mike a penalty. Like Boeheim said, it was set in stone.

I think we agree here, but are just saying it differently. Yes, the contract allowed Hop to become head coach if he so chose to execute it to that end. Perhaps there was even a buyout that he or another university would need to pay SU if he should decline or accept another gig.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I think we agree here, but are just saying it differently. Yes, the contract allowed Hop to become head coach if he so chose to execute it to that end. Perhaps there was even a buyout that he or another university would need to pay SU if he should decline or accept another gig.

"There was a signed contract in place for Mike to assume the head coaching position after next year -- and one in place for Jim's deal to expire." Wildhack said"

It was a succession plan. Mike's contract had to be approved by the chancellor, AD, and the BOT.

 

[rhcuse]

"There was a signed contract in place for Mike to assume the head coaching position after next year -- and one in place for Jim's deal to expire." Wildhack said"

It was a succession plan. Mike's contract had to be approved by the chancellor, AD, and the BOT.

Yes, exactly, agree 100%. Had he stayed the job would have been his...unless SU decided to pay the penalties instead.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Absolutely. It's basically an option contract of sorts with liquidated damages. And the out for SU is UW...

Essentially, it's name me the coach by X date or pay me lots of money. We've seen several coaches leave early-Will Muschamp, James Franklin, and now Mike Hopkins. Jimbo Fisher and FSU forced Bobby Bowden out, as FSU would have had to have paid $5 million if he was not named head coach by 2011. The conctact is iron clad, or "set in stone" but of course both parties can breach it.

"The coach-in-waiting contract is an interesting animal. The agreements are set up so coaches will be paid a “penalty”, usually in the seven figures, if the coach-in-waiting is not the head coach by a certain date. Often times, a coach-in-waiting must stay in that role for five years waiting for their chance. The benefits of entering into such an agreement are 1) the coach generally receives a nice raise; 2) the coach is provided with some security that he will be the next head coach; and 3) the coach will be paid a sizeable penalty if he is not named the head coach by a certain date. Universities also benefit from this arrangement because they are able to keep talented coaches on staff when they would have likely left the university for other employment.

Although these agreements can benefit both parties, it appears this approach may be a fade. What is the motivation to provide a coach with a substantial pay raise to be the coach-in-waiting when the coach will simply leave for a more expedient option a year or two after signing the coach-in-waiting contract? On the other side of the ball, why would a coach pass up the opportunity to lead another desirable program immediately to wait another five years for the same shot? A lot can change in five years, i.e., NCAA infractions, a change of fate for the team, or change of administration."

Oddly enough Syracuse had NCAA infractions, change in the team and conference, and change in the administration.

 

[jgeorge322]

To not recognize that jb didnt want to leave and this impacted hop is silly imo. You dont need inside sources for this. Hop left on his own accord but he did it because a) he had a great opportunity and b) he would never push jb out the door. Its a win win. Also, not praising jb because he couldve stepped aside but he doesnt want to do that. Imho hop wouldve stayed if jb said he had enough. Id bet on that.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

To not recognize that jb didnt want to leave and this impacted hop is simply ignorant. You dont need inside sources for this. Hop left on his own accord but he did it because a) he had a great opportunity and b) he would never push jb out the door. Its a win win. Also, not praising jb because he couldve stepped aside but he doesnt want to do that. Imho hop wouldve stayed if jb said he had enough. Id bet on that.

A little like at Texas. Muschamp knew Mack Brown didn't want to retire, so he left for Florida.

 

[RandygoCuse]

I just saw his contract on Nunes.

Washington releases the details in Mike Hopkins’ 6-year contract

Curious about the buyout - I don't know how these things work. Is the figure the amount they pay him if they fire him early or the amount he pays back if he leaves early? or both?

 

[AZOrange]

Essentially, it's name me the coach by X date or pay me lots of money. We've seen several coaches leave early-Will Muschamp, James Franklin, and now Mike Hopkins. Jimbo Fisher and FSU forced Bobby Bowden out, as FSU would have had to have paid $5 million if he was not named head coach by 2011. The conctact is iron clad, or "set in stone" but of course both parties can breach it.

"The coach-in-waiting contract is an interesting animal. The agreements are set up so coaches will be paid a “penalty”, usually in the seven figures, if the coach-in-waiting is not the head coach by a certain date. Often times, a coach-in-waiting must stay in that role for five years waiting for their chance. The benefits of entering into such an agreement are 1) the coach generally receives a nice raise; 2) the coach is provided with some security that he will be the next head coach; and 3) the coach will be paid a sizeable penalty if he is not named the head coach by a certain date. Universities also benefit from this arrangement because they are able to keep talented coaches on staff when they would have likely left the university for other employment.

Although these agreements can benefit both parties, it appears this approach may be a fade. What is the motivation to provide a coach with a substantial pay raise to be the coach-in-waiting when the coach will simply leave for a more expedient option a year or two after signing the coach-in-waiting contract? On the other side of the ball, why would a coach pass up the opportunity to lead another desirable program immediately to wait another five years for the same shot? A lot can change in five years, i.e., NCAA infractions, a change of fate for the team, or change of administration."

Oddly enough Syracuse had NCAA infractions, change in the team and conference, and change in the administration.

I think (2) has a pretty important qualifier in there..."some". It's basically little to no risk to the CIW but there is nothing that says a school has to make them the coach. There are damages if they don't but not for the full amount of any coach contract. It's really kind of a silly concept.

 

[AZOrange]

I just saw his contract on Nunes.

Washington releases the details in Mike Hopkins’ 6-year contract

Curious about the buyout - I don't know how these things work. Is the figure the amount they pay him if they fire him early or the amount he pays back if he leaves early? or both?

Leaves early. Normally if you're fired early you get the full contract value over time. Although some schools have gotten smarter and added mitigants and lump sums

 

[rrlbees]

I just saw his contract on Nunes.

Washington releases the details in Mike Hopkins’ 6-year contract

Curious about the buyout - I don't know how these things work. Is the figure the amount they pay him if they fire him early or the amount he pays back if he leaves early? or both?

Really not a bad buy out clause for anyone that wants Mike in a few years.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I think (2) has a pretty important qualifier in there..."some". It's basically little to no risk to the CIW but there is nothing that says a school has to make them the coach. There are damages if they don't but not for the full amount of any coach contract. It's really kind of a silly concept.

Actually, that's exactly what the contract says. The school has to make him the coach. That's the point of the contract. FSU was on the hook for $5 million if Jimbo Fisher was not. That's why they pushed Bowden out.

 

[Melancer46]

Really not a bad buy out clause for anyone that wants Mike in a few years.

If we want him down the road, we can easily handle the buy out. The bigger question is whether or not he wants to return to Syracuse.

 

[AZOrange]

Actually, that's exactly what the contract says. The school has to make him the coach. That's the point of the contract. FSU was on the hook for $5 million if Jimbo Fisher was not. That's why they pushed Bowden out.

But again, there's the out for the school. $5mm penalty if the condition isn't met. Otherwise Hop would be able to sue for SP or full value of the coach contract.

I forget, you're a lawyer right?

 

[AZOrange]

Really not a bad buy out clause for anyone that wants Mike in a few years.

It's shockingly low

 

[jgeorge322]

It's shockingly low

Hmm... return of the mac (mike). Thatd be a grand scheme the univ, hop and jb cooked up.

 

[orangenirvana]

Do the UW fans explode into Rumplestiltskin-like fits of near rage after losses?

If they don't that could explain why they haven't been to the Tournament in six years and won 9 games with the potential #1 pick in the NBA Draft this season.

No pressure = no motivation