Mike McAllister on Orange Nation

[Cusefan0307]

Which Freshman is going to be our ace perimeter skill player? Hoping Taylor or Bunch are ready to play at a high level? That is what we are hoping and what the season hinges on?

That’s the plan.

 

[Briancuse]

That’s the plan.

Not a very good one.

 

[RF2044]

Nobody I know. You must be one of those who think if people don’t complain 10 times a day every day on this forum they must be ok with mediocrity.

Bees... please. Over the approximately 25 years I've been actively posting on various incarnations of this board, I've consistently been one of the most optimistic posters on this forum. But I'm not going to get shouted down by anyone pretending that a program that used to win ~75% of it's games and is now winning >58% of those games hasn't slipped a notch.

I can't stand posters who are incessantly negative -- as you well know. Over time, like many on this board I've learned who those posters are and have tuned them out accordingly.

But I've also grown tired of the kneejerk backlash from posters who get angry about the ever increasing number of fans who are beginning to come around to the idea that things are rotten in Denmark, and have been getting steadily worse to an unacceptable degree for a span of 8+ years. And that last year's losing record is the culmination of an extended period of program decline / relatively poor recruiting.

I don't care whether you or others disagree with the logic stated above that the program is in a downward trend of decline. But an inability to be intellectually honest about the state of the program and what the root causes are seems akin to tolerating the status quo.

 

[SUFan44]

Bees... please. Over the approximately 25 years I've been actively posting on various incarnations of this board, I've consistently been one of the most optimistic posters on this forum. But I'm not going to get shouted down by anyone pretending that a program that used to win ~75% of it's games and is now winning >58% of those games hasn't slipped a notch.

I can't stand posters who are incessantly negative -- as you well know. Over time, like many on this board I've learned who those posters are and have tuned them out accordingly.

But I've also grown tired of the kneejerk backlash from posters who get angry about the ever increasing number of fans who are beginning to come around to the idea that things have been getting steadily worse to an unacceptable degree -- for a span of 8+ years. And that last year's losing record is the culmination of an extended period of program decline / relatively poor recruiting.

I don't care whether you or others disagree with the logic stated above that the program is in a downward trend of decline. But an inability to be intellectually honest about the state of the program and what the root causes are seems akin to tolerating the status quo.

Ergo, you.

 

[Sherman20]

Really could be a good team with portal help but I don't think even if Chaz and JBA leave, they will hit the portal. They are happy with what they have.

Do you have any sense who they’re so bullish about among the freshman forwards that makes them think they can be instant impact players? Taylor? Or maybe Bunch? It seems like a huge risk to rely on freshman plus a fairly unproven Benny (not saying he can’t make a leap).

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Because JB never starts 3 guys with zero perimeter skills. You’re asking for something the coach never does.

Off the top of my head, how about one of our best teams ever? ‘00 team. Hart and Bland shot ok at best. Brown and Blackwell hardly took 3s. And Etan in the middle.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Off the top of my head, how about one of our best teams ever? ‘00 team. Hart and Bland shot ok at best. Brown and Blackwell hardly took 3s. And Etan in the middle.

Over 20 years ago, but at least those guys could dribble and pass. Not sure you can say the same about the guys you’re comparing them too.

 

[SWC75]

Reading about BHH, I'd love to get him, even though I'm bullish on the new class. But even without him, I see Symir and Joe being a good starting backcourt made great by Mintz. Maybe Judah displaces Symir or maybe we have a triumvirate such as we had a decade ago with Scoop, Brand and Dion. Edwards will be a top center and we have a bunch of potential forwards, (one of whom is named that). So I think we'll be OK.

I think, at minimum you need two good outside shooters on the court to stret6ch the defense. One should be on one side of the court, the other on the other side. I think that could be Girard and Taylor. And Mintz can score from all three levels. Edwards will certainly score. That would allow us to put Benny or Maliq at the four. And Copeland, Bunch and Carey could certainly be heard from. I think we'll score and be a better defensive team and pretty good on the boards.

But then it's the off-season, a time for optimism, which can be hard to come by when a season begins.

 

[SWC75]

Because JB never starts 3 guys with zero perimeter skills. You’re asking for something the coach never does.

Girard obviously has perimeter skills and the only recruit I didn't see making jumps hots in his tapes was Brown, although Bunch's low release point bothers me. Is BHH a jump shooter?

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Over 20 years ago, but at least those guys could dribble and pass. Not sure you can say the same about the guys you’re comparing them too.

We would be intimidating up front, that’s for sure. And I’m fine with Mintz and Girard handling. It’s an upgrade from Girard and Buddy.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Girard obviously has perimeter skills and the only recruit I didn't see making jumps hots in his tapes was Brown, although Bunch's low release point bothers me. Is BHH a jump shooter?

By no means, but he has a face up game.

 

[SWC75]

Over 20 years ago, but at least those guys could dribble and pass. Not sure you can say the same about the guys you’re comparing them too.

Looking at the tapes of the new guys, I think we'll be fine there. All of them showed the ability to drive to the basket and Copeland and Brown looked like really good passers. Mintz can do it all. Yes, some of them will disappoint but there are 6 of them.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Looking at the tapes of the new guys, I think we'll be fine there. All of them showed the ability to drive to the basket and Copeland and Brown looked like really good passers. Mintz can do it all. Yes, some of them will disappoint but there are 6 of them.

Worried about game speed for Copeland. Brown or Taylor as the really good passer?

 

[SWC75]

Bees... please. Over the approximately 25 years I've been actively posting on various incarnations of this board, I've consistently been one of the most optimistic posters on this forum. But I'm not going to get shouted down by anyone pretending that a program that used to win ~75% of it's games and is now winning >58% of those games hasn't slipped a notch.

I can't stand posters who are incessantly negative -- as you well know. Over time, like many on this board I've learned who those posters are and have tuned them out accordingly.

But I've also grown tired of the kneejerk backlash from posters who get angry about the ever increasing number of fans who are beginning to come around to the idea that things are rotten in Denmark, and have been getting steadily worse to an unacceptable degree for a span of 8+ years. And that last year's losing record is the culmination of an extended period of program decline / relatively poor recruiting.

I don't care whether you or others disagree with the logic stated above that the program is in a downward trend of decline. But an inability to be intellectually honest about the state of the program and what the root causes are seems akin to tolerating the status quo.

I don't think anyone is pretending that we haven't slipped a notch. the last 8 years in a row have been below our previous standards and we all want to break out of the slump. No one on the board was more disappointed than I was that the streak of winning seasons, which I have constantly promoted in recent years as the thing that made us special in the face of other programs that had more Final Fours and national championships, came to an end before we could catch UCLA for the all-time record.

I continued to criticize where it seemed valid, (The Downside) but to still give credit where it was due, (The Upside). But any way you cut it, these last eight years have been disappointing and this last season was painful. Jim Boeheim has to take a lot of the blame for that- he's in charge and his stubbornness in his strategical concepts, recruiting complacency, his harsh words for some players and inability to get them to stay here to fully develop their skills have a lot to do with it. I also think that the probation and the need to avoid getting in any kind trouble afterwards are also factors but he's not blameless for the probation, either. I do give him credit that each one of these teams got better as the season progressed but the end result was still mediocre by our standards, despite some good runs in the NCAA tournament. It's not obvious that a change will solve our problems, as it hasn't in other sports. The historical record suggests that replacing a Hall of Fame coach with someone who will do better is not easy. But change will surely happen in the near future and we'll hope for the best.

To be a fan is, by its nature, an act of optimism. It's a way of making life more than an assembly line or an in and out basket, (or if you're retired, breakfast), and I am certainly a fan. I always seem to find a way to think that this is the year we'll break out of it and am a sucker for the highlight films where all the shots go in. I'm going to spend the spring, summer and fall feeling good about our chances for a breakthrough year and I wouldn't want to go through that period feeling any other way.

 

[SWC75]

Worried about game speed for Copeland. Brown or Taylor as the really good passer?

My gut feeling is that they will be fine but like I said, there are 6 of them.

 

[rrlbees]

Bees... please. Over the approximately 25 years I've been actively posting on various incarnations of this board, I've consistently been one of the most optimistic posters on this forum. But I'm not going to get shouted down by anyone pretending that a program that used to win ~75% of it's games and is now winning >58% of those games hasn't slipped a notch.

I can't stand posters who are incessantly negative -- as you well know. Over time, like many on this board I've learned who those posters are and have tuned them out accordingly.

But I've also grown tired of the kneejerk backlash from posters who get angry about the ever increasing number of fans who are beginning to come around to the idea that things are rotten in Denmark, and have been getting steadily worse to an unacceptable degree for a span of 8+ years. And that last year's losing record is the culmination of an extended period of program decline / relatively poor recruiting.

I don't care whether you or others disagree with the logic stated above that the program is in a downward trend of decline. But an inability to be intellectually honest about the state of the program and what the root causes are seems akin to tolerating the status quo.

And those constant negatoids don’t do one thing to help the program. They’re too ignorant to realize they are a negative. They think if they say the same things over and over enough times someone will listen to them when they don’t even understand context. Just because some people don’t cry everyday in every thread and try to drag a thread down doesn’t make them happy with the status of the program.

 

[shermstheman]

Not good at all. Hopefully they reconsider. They are putting unfair pressure on this freshman class.

No. They were offered scholarships and as long as they keep their end of the bargain should be supported and not encouraged by the likes of us to leave. Not their fault that they are not stars.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

No. They were offered scholarships and as long as they keep their end of the bargain should be supported and not encouraged by the likes of us to leave. Not their fault that they are not stars.

This will be JBA's 4th season so he will be off the books in a year but Chazz will only be in his 3rd season coming up. As much as coaches routinely "pull" scholarships, I don't think it is in JAB's DNA to take them from healthy players in good academic standing and he shouldn't. Very rarely has he used all 13 scholarships. This year he will be and unfortunately might hurt not being able to replace Swider.

 

[Briancuse]

No. They were offered scholarships and as long as they keep their end of the bargain should be supported and not encouraged by the likes of us to leave. Not their fault that they are not stars.

We still have a scholarship available.

 

[tipphill]

Who is that segment? Couldn’t disagree more. Nobody I know wants or expects mediocrity.

i guess i read that wrong. i read it as the program IS mediocracy and fans understand that, not that fans accept that status. su has lost many fans at this point imho because of jb and his attitude, antiquated, coaching style, and publicly degrading players. his recruiting had fallen off dramatically, he always says players are not ready(edwards last year)and williams but did not give not give enough live minutes to develop. anslem was another case in point.
i agree nobody wants it, but sadly recognizes it is where we are at. the only question to me is when does he retire. we may have a few tough years when he does, but that will depend on who we hire ..

 

[jgeorge322]

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Benny to make a substantial sophomore leap.

It was more than just trying to land Mintz.

Not unreasonable but probably not likely IMO. Also substantial progress is prob - 8 pts and 6 rebs? Curious what others think we can get out of him.

I think this team could go sub 500 again. Hope I an wrong.

 

[orangefog]

Girard obviously has perimeter skills and the only recruit I didn't see making jumps hots in his tapes was Brown, although Bunch's low release point bothers me. Is BHH a jump shooter?

I think his release is fine, but it looks low because he starts his shot so low.

 

[Loki]

This will be JBA's 4th season so he will be off the books in a year but Chazz will only be in his 3rd season coming up. As much as coaches routinely "pull" scholarships, I don't think it is in JAB's DNA to take them from healthy players in good academic standing and he shouldn't. Very rarely has he used all 13 scholarships. This year he will be and unfortunately might hurt not being able to replace Swider.

At power 5 schools coachs can not pull scholarships for athletic performance.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Really could be a good team with portal help but I don't think even if Chaz and JBA leave, they will hit the portal. They are happy with what they have.

Thanks Dash, and this attitude will keep next years ceiling at the bubble level
Hope I am wrong, go Cuse

 

[Red Holzman]

A big part of this is handing Benny a spot to get Mintz.

Benny needs a big soph leap, to avoid agathokakological results!

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