Mike McAllister on Orange Nation

[Capt. Tuttle]

It looks like about half of our rotation is going to be freshman. They are going to have to play over their heads if we are going to be good.

i guess i read that wrong. i read it as the program IS mediocracy and fans understand that, not that fans accept that status. su has lost many fans at this point imho because of jb and his attitude, antiquated, coaching style, and publicly degrading players. his recruiting had fallen off dramatically, he always says players are not ready(edwards last year)and williams but did not give not give enough live minutes to develop. anslem was another case in point.
i agree nobody wants it, but sadly recognizes it is where we are at. the only question to me is when does he retire. we may have a few tough years when he does, but that will depend on who we hire ..

SU has lost fans because of wins and loses. That's it. If the were 25-6, top 2 in ACC and deep tournament runs each year, people would be begging him to stay.

 

[Lord Ashby]

Forbes put the list together - is that quality enough for you?

And the list represents schools that have high end, revenue generating basketball programs - and are treated like their universities as such.

I don’t know where you are getting your ACC schools won’t be on this list narrative. That’s presumptuous and a very big leap.

ACC basketball isn’t going anywhere and I have no idea where you’re getting your info but there’s a lot of opinion in there and not much fact.

My data is from SU's reporting under Title IV.

Equity in Athletics

ope.ed.gov

 

[SUFan44]

My data is from SU's reporting under Title IV.

Equity in Athletics

ope.ed.gov

Ok? Please tell me how those raw numbers say ACC basketball schools will be sub-Top 20 soon.

 

[SUFan44]

I agree that JB has slipped since 2014 and have stated my frustration numerous times over the past few years, but where you lose me is when every thread turns into that same referendum and same macro discussion we have had over and over to the point that thread get's hijacked and people get attacked for discussing anything else. The horse is dead beaten and buried at this point. I don't feel the need to repeat the same thing every day. Some people actually want to discuss the future without bringing up JB or our past recruiting misses.

Case in point, I happen to have an opinion that Reid Ducharme is a good player, but some of you who have never seen him play came at me from all angles in his recruiting thread acting like he sucks because of a ranking and no matter what I say I'm an idiot because I am not hammering home the same point we make over and over in every thread and you're just assuming he sucks because of his ranking without watchin him play

I don't think you realize that people can be upset and frustrated about the decline, but at the same time want to discuss other things and look toward the future. If some aren't hammering the same point over and over in every thread people get angry that others aren't being negative enough when in reality they want to discuss other things. I get being upset about past recruiting, JB and our past record, but some of you make it impossible to bring up anything else without hijacking said topic and bringing it back to the same referendum discussion that dominates the board.

Your post has been made 100 times in 100 different threads including by myself over the past 5 years. If people don't get it at this point they never will.

That’s fair - I respect that point of view. I’m passionate about SU and believe they should be better. If it sounds like I’m beating a dead horse, I understand that view - all I’ll say is nothing has changed and that’s the reason I’m as vocal and frustrated as I am. I’m also not convinced we are doing all the things we should do in terms of recruiting high-end talent and settle. I was less critical 8 years ago when there was more data to suggest we were doing well. I’m more skeptical now.

 

[rrlbees]

Here's the issue.

The less talk there is about the issues, the more it becomes accepted. The more a casual fan just won't care about a program that went 16-17 last year and is 74-72 in the ACC over the last 9 years.

Our recruiting has not been close to as good the last 10 years as it had been the prior 35. And our records have also been subpar by Syracuse standards. What has changed within the program? Literally nothing. Not one thing. And that is not OK. Why shouldn't we continue to point out the clear flaws? Without that inflection point, and with no change, what is going to happen? Status quo isn't acceptable.

Syracuse basketball is the 6th-most valuable and profitable college basketball program in the country. Go down the list and see what these schools think about their cash cow, and how they treat it. Every one is either where they need to be, or actively working to (i.e. changing coaches) make sure they are where they need to be.

1. Kentucky (SEC) - $56.0
2. Louisville (ACC) - $53.6
3. Indiana (Big Ten) - $37.5
4. Duke (ACC) - $35.4
5. Kansas (Big 12) - $34.1
6. Syracuse (ACC) - $31.9
7. Ohio State (Big Ten) - $30.1
8. North Carolina (ACC) - $29.9
9. Michigan State (Big Ten) - $28.5
10. Illinois (Big Ten) - $27.6
11. UCLA (Pac-12) - $26.3
12. Wisconsin (Big Ten) - $25.3
13. Arkansas (SEC) - $24.7
14. Michigan (Big Ten) - $24.1
15. Arizona (Pac-12) - $23.9
16. Maryland (Big Ten) - $22.5
17. Marquette (Big East) - $20.3
18. Minnesota (Big Ten) - $19.7
19. Alabama (SEC) - $19.3

Did you reply to the right person? None of that, which I and probably many others know, has nothing to do with my point. Good job. All the whining about Babers on this board worked didn’t it? The point isn’t whether we’ve been good or not nor how much money we bring in. It’s that some people have the need to say the same things over and over and over and sometimes way over the top thinking anyones going to listen to them.

 

[Lord Ashby]

Ok? Please tell me how those raw numbers say ACC basketball schools will be sub-Top 20 soon.

I did not say they would be sub-Top 20. I said they would plummet, (i.e.) meaning 6 to 15ish
(pure speculation). Louisville will drop because they had had to do a re-do KFC Yum deal to avoid default. Kansas will drop as they are they the UConn of the old big 12 and suck at football and will be soon be looking for a home once the NCAA completes the investigation 2028.

Point being ... i don't care what JW does we're not climbing that list. No need to respond as this is at the dead horse stage and JW can't just throw money at the problem. Nor can any booster.

 

[SUFan44]

I did not say they would be sub-Top 20. I said they would plummet, (i.e.) meaning 6 to 15ish
(pure speculation). Louisville will drop because they had had to do a re-do KFC Yum deal to avoid default. Kansas will drop as they are they the UConn of the old big 12 and suck at football and will be soon be looking for a home once the NCAA completes the investigation 2028.

Point being ... i don't care what JW does we're not climbing that list. No need to respond as this is at the dead horse stage and JW can't just throw money at the problem. Nor can any booster.

We are #6 in the country on that list and haven’t been a top 8 seed in the tournament (top 32 nationally) in a decade.

If we are 6 or 15, the point remains. We need to do better. Period.

 

[Giants1973]

We are #6 in the country on that list and haven’t been a top 8 seed in the tournament (top 32 nationally) in a decade.

If we are 6 or 15, the point remains. We need to do better. Period.

Better coaching and better quality players

 

[RF2044]

I agree that JB has slipped since 2014 and have stated my frustration numerous times over the past few years, but where you lose me is when every thread turns into that same referendum and same macro discussion we have had over and over to the point that thread get's hijacked and people get attacked for discussing anything else. The horse is dead beaten and buried at this point. I don't feel the need to repeat the same thing every day. Some people actually want to discuss the future without bringing up JB or our past recruiting misses.

I happen to have an opinion that Reid Ducharme is a good player, but some of you who have never seen him play came at me from all angles in his recruiting thread acting like he sucks because of a ranking. No matter what I say I'm an idiot because I am not hammering home the same point we make over and over in every thread and you're just assuming he sucks because of his ranking without watching him play.

I don't think you realize that people can be upset and frustrated about the decline, but at the same time want to discuss other things and look toward the future. If some aren't hammering the same point over and over in every thread people get angry that others aren't being negative enough when in reality they want to discuss other things. I get being upset about past recruiting, JB and our past record, but some of you make it impossible to bring up anything else without hijacking said topic and bringing it back to the same referendum discussion that dominates the board.

Your post has been made 100 times in 100 different threads including by myself over the past 5 years. If people don't get it at this point they never will.

That's your opinion.

But you don't get to tell others what they can and should not post. If you don't like the subject, you have lots of options at your disposal. You can skip over posts. You can ignore threads. You can block specific posters to hide their messages.

But others don't share your opinion -- clearly. And in fact, some posters are just coming around to the realization that the wheels are [or have already] coming off -- which is why it's being discussed with greater frequency than ever before. Like SUfan44 described above, these conclusions were unfathomable to many even just a few short years ago, but the decline has caused perception to shift. Not for all, but for a growing number of fans -- who are just as die hard as those who ready to accept thearing that their baby's ugly.

Just because you don't like the topic doesn't mean that others aren't allowed to discuss it.

 

[RF2044]

Did you reply to the right person? None of that, which I and probably many others know, has nothing to do with my point. Good job. All the whining about Babers on this board worked didn’t it? The point isn’t whether we’ve been good or not nor how much money we bring in. It’s that some people have the need to say the same things over and over and over and sometimes way over the top thinking anyones going to listen to them.

Same as above.

You're a moderator, but it's not up to you to dictate what people are allowed to discuss. This is a message board, after all.

If posters cross the line of good taste with how they post, then by all means use all the admin tools at your disposal to keep things on the up-and-up. But you can't thought police what people choose to discuss, just because their viewpoint doesn't align with yours.

As stated in an earlier post, the knee jerk lashing out when some have the audacity to be critical of the state of the state is tiresome. ESPECIALLY because program performance has demonstrable gotten worse.

 

[rrlbees]

Same as above.

You're a moderator, but it's not up to you to dictate what people are allowed to discuss. This is a message board, after all.

If posters cross the line of good taste with how they post, then by all means use all the admin tools at your disposal to keep things on the up-and-up. But you can't thought police what people choose to discuss, just because their viewpoint doesn't align with yours.

As stated in an earlier post, the knee jerk lashing out when some have the audacity to be critical of the state of the state is tiresome. ESPECIALLY because program performance has demonstrable gotten worse.

That’s your opinion.

 

[RF2044]

That’s your opinion.

What? That you can't dictate what the board discusses? I beg to differ.

That some posters overreact when other posters are critical of the programs decline? Ditto... and case in point.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That's your opinion.

But you don't get to tell others what they can and should not post. If you don't like the subject, you have lots of options at your disposal. You can skip over posts. You can ignore threads. You can block specific posters to hide their messages.

But others don't share your opinion -- clearly. And in fact, some posters are just coming around to the realization that the wheels are [or have already] coming off -- which is why it's being discussed with greater frequency than ever before. Like SUfan44 described above, these conclusions were unfathomable to many even just a few short years ago, but the decline has caused perception to shift. Not for all, but for a growing number of fans -- who are just as die hard as those who ready to accept thearing that their baby's ugly.

Just because you don't like the topic doesn't mean that others aren't allowed to discuss it.

No. Actually the exact opposite happened. He and a few others came at me in another thread when he didn’t like my opinion that had zero to do with anything about the past.

 

[Niastri]

One of the 19 listed is not like the others and will be off the list shortly when OU and Texas join the SEC.

Could you explain this comment? Who is going to be off the list when Oklahoma and Texas join the SEC?

 

[orange79]

That's your opinion.

But you don't get to tell others what they can and should not post. If you don't like the subject, you have lots of options at your disposal. You can skip over posts. You can ignore threads. You can block specific posters to hide their messages.

But others don't share your opinion -- clearly. And in fact, some posters are just coming around to the realization that the wheels are [or have already] coming off -- which is why it's being discussed with greater frequency than ever before. Like SUfan44 described above, these conclusions were unfathomable to many even just a few short years ago, but the decline has caused perception to shift. Not for all, but for a growing number of fans -- who are just as die hard as those who ready to accept thearing that their baby's ugly.

Just because you don't like the topic doesn't mean that others aren't allowed to discuss it.

The point being made here is that EVERY thread drifts to this subject. And it gets tiring to read over and over and over and over again.

We get it.