Mike Waters basketball chat on syracuse.com

[OGBJ20]

I'm really not sure why everyone was assuming BJ was going to be a guard? Not even trying to get into it, but it was my main reason for considering a red shirt for him. He isn't going to get minutes this season.

The truth shall set you ttwwoo-ttthhhrrreee?

 

[iommi]

The truth shall set you ttwwoo-ttthhhrrreee?

Great to see you here.

 

[OGBJ20]

Great to see you here.

 

[AlaskaSU]

The truth shall set you ttwwoo-ttthhhrrreee?

I take that to mean that he is preparing for the 2 and the 3.

 

[AlaskaSU]

2/3 are interchangeable in SU offense

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2 is top of the key, and a ball handler as we tend to use combo guards. The guards are looking to lead the break on transitions.

 

[OGBJ20]

I take that to mean that he is preparing for the 2 and the 3.

 

[reedny]

Well that's one question answered.

Our guard rotation is Ennis, Cooney, Gbinije.

Johnson playing with the forwards means Johnson is not playing. I was hoping for he'd get a bit of run, I was impressed by him in Canada.

Exactly what I was thinking, and why I came away from the "Chat" disagreeing with Waters take on the guard rotation. I'm not disputing that BJ may be doing some drills with the forwards, as Waters notes from seeing one early practice. But as the season unfolds, if BJ can shoot the ball and handle it well enough to avoid turnovers -- exactly as we saw him do in Canada after a few freshman jitters -- then he's going to get minutes no matter how thin his waistline is.

As to where those minutes will be, Waters and I also disagree. The 3 is out (CJ/Roberson), so the 2 is his best chance to play. It's the weakest link in this team.

Now, before you TC fans flame out, yes he might break out, as Waters thinks. If so, god bless. On the other hand, he might do exactly what he did all last year (and so far this year), and shoot 26%. If it's door #2, I can almost guaranTEE you that BJ's going to get minutes at SG. JB will have no choice.

Why not MG, as Waters thinks? Well, I like his (MG's) handle for a 6'7 kid. He's also poised and can definitely fill in for 5 or 6 minutes at the point. But I've seen nothing from him so far that would suggest he could be an outside threat. Perimeter offense is a critical part of the offense ... not only for points, but also to stretch the defense and open up the inside. So unless MG becomes a sharpshooter overnight, and TC undergoes a massive cranial transformation, I'd say Waters has mis-predicted the 2-guard rotation.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

"Offense is rarely a problem for Jim Boeheim-coached teams." - don't agree with that statement. I'd say it was a problem maybe 3 of the last 6 seasons.

Uhm... we're like, 160 and 50 over that stretch.

 

[reedny]

Uhm... we're like, 160 and 50 over that stretch.

I agree that we've been successful, but that doesn't mean we haven't had some balance issues over the last couple of years, some years not having enough outside shooting and others (like last year) not having enough inside scoring. "Offense" (i.e., total points) is just one metric -- there are others.

 

[Cusefan10923]

Exactly what I was thinking, and why I came away from the "Chat" disagreeing with Waters analysis. I'm not disputing that BJ is doing dribbling drills with the forwards, as Waters observed. But as the season unfolds, if BJ can shoot the ball and handle it well enough not to turn it over frequently -- exactly as we saw him do in Canada after a few freshman jitters -- then the only place for him to get PT is at the 2-guard.

Since the 3 is out (CJ/Roberson ... forget any PT here), the 2 is his best chance to play, and it just so happens that this is a huge potential weak link in this team.

Now, before you TC fans flame out, TC might break out, as Waters thinks. Or, he might do exactly what he did all last year (and so far this year), and shoot 26%. If so, I can guaranTEEyou that he's going to get minutes.

I like MG's handle and poise. But I saw nothing from him that would constitute an outside threat. So unless he becomes a sharpshooter overnight, and TC undergoes a massive cranial transformation, I'd say Waters has mis-predicted the 2-guard rotation.

My prediction,

2 guard is a strength of this team and the entire "2 guard is a weakness" conversation is irrelevant by the time ACC play starts.

 

[billsin01]

I agree that we've been successful, but that doesn't mean we haven't had some balance issues over the last couple of years, some years not having enough outside shooting and others (like last year) not having enough inside scoring. "Offense" (i.e., total points) is just one metric -- there are others.

I think the point is that you need to score enough points to win. There are very, very, very few teams like our 09-10 squad or or 02-03 team that have so many options they are more or less impossible to slow down for a full 40 minutes. Last year's team, for example, had plenty of warts, but they were also playing in an era of drastically decreased scoring across college basketball and they made it to a final four. So I'm not really sure there's an argument for serious offensive problems when all is said and done.

 

[jordoo]

Also in scrimage you have to realize its a numbers game. BJ may be doing drills with both the guards and forwards but once they match up of the guard group he is the most capable to play forward of the 5 other than MikeG but he has to play PG for one squad .

 

[reedny]

I think the point is that you need to score enough points to win. There are very, very, very few teams like our 09-10 squad or or 02-03 team that have so many options they are more or less impossible to slow down for a full 40 minutes. Last year's team, for example, had plenty of warts, but they were also playing in an era of drastically decreased scoring across college basketball and they made it to a final four. So I'm not really sure there's an argument for serious offensive problems when all is said and done.

Good points, Bills. I wasn't claiming that last year's team was a train-wreck offensively. We were decent in transition. JS gave us a perimeter threat, MCW could get to the rim at will, and CJ (leading scorer) was a mismatch for most teams. But our inside bigs struggled to score, leaving us with some balance issues .. which were exposed on nights when teams packed it in and our jumpers weren't falling. This made us vulnerable (e.g., the second GT game). Fortunately, during the tourney we put enough points on the board to win with exceptional -- suffocating -- defense.

 

[pearl31]

One thing, consisting of two parts, is clear:
If Cooney is making shots (say, above 35% from three) and if Coleman is a legitimate scoring presence down low, this team is as formidable as any in the country.

 

[Oakland]

I think the point is that you need to score enough points to win. There are very, very, very few teams like our 09-10 squad or or 02-03 team that have so many options they are more or less impossible to slow down for a full 40 minutes. Last year's team, for example, had plenty of warts, but they were also playing in an era of drastically decreased scoring across college basketball and they made it to a final four. So I'm not really sure there's an argument for serious offensive problems when all is said and done.

Do you actually watch SU games?

 

[pearl31]

Do you actually watch SU games?

That seems like a completely reasonable way to respond to a solid, well-thought-out post.
Oh Lord

 

[tee1222]

Exactly what I was thinking, and why I came away from the "Chat" disagreeing with Waters take on the guard rotation. I'm not disputing that BJ may be doing some drills with the forwards, as Waters notes from seeing one early practice. But as the season unfolds, if BJ can shoot the ball and handle it well enough not to turn it over frequently -- exactly as we saw him do in Canada after a few freshman jitters -- then he's going to get minutes.

As far as where those minutes will be, Waters and I disagree. The 3 is out (CJ/Roberson), so the 2 is his best chance to play, and it just so happens that this is also a potential weak link in this team.

Now, before you TC fans flame out, yes he might break out, as Waters thinks. Or, he might do exactly what he did all last year (and so far this year), and shoot 26%. If it's door #2, I can almost guaranTEEyou that BJ's going to get minutes at SG.

Why not MG, as Waters thinks? Well, I like his (MG's) handle for a 6'7 kid. He's also poised and can definitely fill in for 5 or 6 minutes at the point. But I've seen nothing from him so far that would suggest he could be an outside threat at the 2 -- which is a very important part of JB's offense (not just for points, but also to open up the inside). So unless MG becomes a sharpshooter overnight, and TC undergoes a massive cranial transformation, I'd say Waters has mis-predicted the 2-guard rotation.

I see tees.

 

[billsin01]

Good points, Bills. I wasn't claiming that last year's team was a train-wreck offensively. We were decent in transition. JS could shoot, MCW could get to the rim at will, and CJ (leading scorer) was a mismatch for most teams. But our inside bigs struggled to score, leaving us with some balance issues .. which were exposed on nights when teams packed it in and our jumpers weren't falling. This made us vulnerable (e.g., the second GT game). Fortunately, during the tourney we put enough points on the board to win with exceptional -- suffocating -- defense.

Yeah, I feel like Coleman turning into a marginally functional defensive player in order to give us a little bit offensively in the paint (5-6 ppg) would be a huge boost for this team. And don't get me wrong, by the way, last year's team and much of college hoops in general was painful to watch on the offensive end of the floor.

 

[billsin01]

Do you actually watch SU games?

Help me out -- what are you taking issue with?

 

[billsin01]

One thing, consisting of two parts, is clear:
If Cooney is making shots (say, above 35% from three) and if Coleman is a legitimate scoring presence down low, this team is as formidable as any in the country.

I'd even take cooney at 32% and Coleman just being improved enough defensively to stay on the floor and get some touches down low.

 

[anomander]

So realistically how many minutes a game do you see for BJ? I think he will be great for us down the road but I would be shocked if he got more PT then say MCW did his Freshman year. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that were just loaded with guys who have been in the program longer and we know JB's track record the past 3 decades with playing freshman


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[orangefan13]

I think the point is that you need to score enough points to win. There are very, very, very few teams like our 09-10 squad or or 02-03 team that have so many options they are more or less impossible to slow down for a full 40 minutes. Last year's team, for example, had plenty of warts, but they were also playing in an era of drastically decreased scoring across college basketball and they made it to a final four. So I'm not really sure there's an argument for serious offensive problems when all is said and done.

Agree. Maybe Gbinije and Cooney are far ahead of bj, patterson and one of our forwards at the 2 defensively. Sounds like me you and alaska are all for rolling out the ball for our best scorers, even if they are out of position for a few minutes. One of the benefits of having 2 wings and guards in the 2-3 is we can put them on the opponents weak scoring side. I guess I would think of doing it every game though, not just when there is a mismatch. Nobody is going to change my mind on that.

 

[SoBristol]

My prediction,

2 guard is a strength of this team and the entire "2 guard is a weakness" conversation is irrelevant by the time ACC play starts.

My prediction -- the 2 guard issues become more relevant once ACC play starts. We have solutions for every other spot.

Add two more predictions:

Ron Patterson will be more of a factor as the season progresses than others in this thread seem to believe.

Roberson will play more than Grant did last season.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I agree to a point that last years team and even the 11-12 team weren't the best offensive teams we have had, but while we had shooting issues the past couple of years, i think the reason our scoring has been down has to do more with our opponents slowing the game down against the zone.
Before the 09-10 seasons, JB made some adjustments to the zone and every year since then our tempo has decreased. We just don't run as much as our historical teams. Lots of teams are shooting against the zone under with under 15 seconds in the shot clock. This leads to less possesions per game. Also last year MCW and BT did not leak out as much as our guards have in the past. We needed them to rebound, so that helped decrease our tempo as well. Common sense says if you get 60 possessions a game compared to 70, you are going to score less points.

 

[orangejunkie]

SoBristol, like your predictions. Not sure about Patterson though. His defense looks great but not sure about his ball handling skills at 2 guard. Will he struggle from deep as so many freshmen do? I agree on Roberson. He appears to have a better overall skill set than Grant who struggled with his shot.