More Zach Allen News

[CusefanATL]

How are you judging the recruiting?

Production is the best method.

Next is what the experts think of them. We now have had 1 player to be lauded.

 

[billsin01]

Production is the best method.

Next is what the experts think of them. We now have had 1 player to be lauded.

So production: If we throw out Marrone's first class since he had a couple weeks to put it together and his last class since they were all freshmen and, ideally, would be redshirted -- you have basically one full class to grade on. And 'experts' with regard to recruiting is simply a complete misuse of the term. I generally think Marrone has done a decent job recruiting and it's fine if you feel otherwise. But to imply you or I or some guy who got a job with Scout by being willing to "write" (some hardly qualifies as writing) for next to no pay no the first thing about the kids that just signed up in the past couple months is absurd.

 

[CusefanATL]

Our program is starting to recruit itself?

I understand that I am considered negative on this subject so I apologize in advance... BUT WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! Our recruiting has still been subpar.

I am excited about this kid and about a few others here and there, but we haven't seen any production and haven't landed a single borderline superstar yet.

Subpar compared to what, Alabama or where SU was when Marrone took over.

1. SU has never recruited at a national level, so SU will always be on the bad side of a comparision to the factories.

2. I guess you missed the "is starting" part. Marrone's first job was to build back a recruiting base and reestablish the SU brand. That is what he is doing. My point was that kids in the program are starting to sell the program to their peers. That means they are having a positive experience and are recommending the same experience to their friends. The prime example is NYC. All you need to do is read the quotes from the players and coaches to see that.

Now you have Allen selling it to kids in this class and advancing SU in some kids consideration.

1. i didnt miss "is starting"
2. kids have always tried to sell the program to their peers. Ben Barrett called everyone last year.
3. we have improved in NYC, sure. But we are still striking out with every big name NY recruit.

Has our recruiting improved, Maybe - who knows. But the only people saying it has is us. None of the services, not espn, not production on the field (yet).

Ive never heard a coach say "Man, Syracuse got themselves a really bad player."

Maybe I am just being negative. So like I said, I am sorry. But I am just sick of hearing the exact same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. All of the services CAN'T be wrong. Unless they are saying Syracuse's recruiting has been bad the last 15 years, then its a conspiracy.

 

[CusefanATL]

So production: If we throw out Marrone's first class since he had a couple weeks to put it together and his last class since they were all freshmen and, ideally, would be redshirted -- you have basically one full class to grade on. And 'experts' with regard to recruiting is simply a complete misuse of the term. I generally think Marrone has done a decent job recruiting and it's fine if you feel otherwise. But to imply you or I or some guy who got a job with Scout by being willing to "write" (some hardly qualifies as writing) for next to no pay no the first thing about the kids that just signed up in the past couple months is absurd.

The 'experts' i was referring to was Trent Dilfer and Tony Romo in this post. Hence the, "we now have 1 player being lauded". Allen is still ranked very low by all the recruiting services.

Not going to argue that production can't necessarily be quantified yet. But this is his 4th year. It will be able to be quantified this year, no excuses.

And this isnt a bash on Marrone. It's more of a bash on what I believe to be delusional fandom.

 

[All4SU]

Our recruiting has still been subpar.

Actually, I think our recruiting currently is on "par." But we don't want par. We want some birdies and eagles. This is certainly one.

 

[billsin01]

The 'experts' i was referring to was Trent Dilfer and Tony Romo in this post. Hence the, "we now have 1 player being lauded". Allen is still ranked very low by all the recruiting services.

I actually agree with the general opinion of recruiting that you posted in the response to GO. I agree on kids selling to other kids and the fact that it's hard to really know if we've improved significantly over a year, two years or five years ago. And generally, I'd much rather have good reviews from services than bad.

But, honestly, no one knows. We will really learn a lot more about these kids this fall, but most prospects we bring in are going to take a year or two to really provide dividends.

 

[Aweart23]

Production is the best method.

Next is what the experts think of them. We now have had 1 player to be lauded.

What production? Wins and Losses? On field production?? Until HCDM's first two full classes are juniors and seniors, you and I have no idea how they will produce. If its wins and losses, you are taking Grob's seniors and juniors mediocre wins and losses and pinning on the last two recruiting classes...

 

[Aweart23]

Allen is still ranked very low by all the recruiting services.

Scout is on record as saying they will not change his rating until they see his senior film. Period. Never having seen him play in person. Solely based on Junior film. Lets see where he's ranked at the end of the year...

 

[GoSU96]

1. i didnt miss "is starting"
2. kids have always tried to sell the program to their peers. Ben Barrett called everyone last year.
3. we have improved in NYC, sure. But we are still striking out with every big name NY recruit.

Has our recruiting improved, Maybe - who knows. But the only people saying it has is us. None of the services, not espn, not production on the field (yet).

Ive never heard a coach say "Man, Syracuse got themselves a really bad player."

Maybe I am just being negative. So like I said, I am sorry. But I am just sick of hearing the exact same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. All of the services CAN'T be wrong. Unless they are saying Syracuse's recruiting has been bad the last 15 years, then its a conspiracy.

And last years class was probably the best in 10 years. And Ben Barrett calling kids vs a kid invited the Elite 11 final camp is maybe a significant difference. I don't know.

And SU is not striking out with EVERY big name NY recruit.

Last year SU signed 6 of 14 BCS recruits, the year before 8 of 18, the year before 8 of 17. None of those kids are top 5 or top 10 in the state?

 

[CusefanATL]

And last years class was probably the best in 10 years. And Ben Barrett calling kids vs a kid invited the Elite 11 final camp is maybe a significant difference. I don't know.

And SU is not striking out with EVERY big name NY recruit.

Last year SU signed 6 of 14 BCS recruits, the year before 8 of 18, the year before 8 of 17. None of those kids are top 5 or top 10 in the state?

Thats where we differ... I don't ever remember 5 big name players ever coming out of NY in a single season. They have struck out with every single big name player. Are Wayne Morgan and Brandon Reddish the biggest fish?

Both quality? heck yeah. But nowhere near top notch recruits.

We'll just agree to disagree. Just know that I am rooting, as always, for your thoughts on recruiting to prove me wrong.

 

[All4SU]

Thats where we differ... I don't ever remember 5 big name players ever coming out of NY in a single season. They have struck out with every single big name player. Are Wayne Morgan and Brandon Reddish the biggest fish?

Both quality? heck yeah. But nowhere near top notch recruits.

We'll just agree to disagree. Just know that I am rooting, as always, for your thoughts on recruiting to prove me wrong.

I think folks pretty much accept that northeastern recruits need a little seasoning when they get into college. It takes most of them a little longer, because they aren't playing year-round like the southern kids. I'll take every Wayne Morgan and Brandon Reddish we can get. It may take them an extra year, but after that I see no reason why they can't be outstanding players.

 

[CusefanATL]

I think folks pretty much accept that northeastern recruits need a little seasoning when they get into college. It takes most of them a little longer, because they aren't playing year-round like the southern kids. I'll take every Wayne Morgan and Brandon Reddish we can get. It may take them an extra year, but after that I see no reason why they can't be outstanding players.

Neither do I... I couldn't agree more. But they aren't blue chippers either.

I dont think anyone is disagreeing that jarron jones and Ishaq were BY FAR our top 2 priorities the last 2 years in NY. That is what I am referring to. Land a big 1, I'll be a believer quickly.

 

[All4SU]

Neither do I... I couldn't agree more. But they aren't blue chippers either.

That's just the point. The fact that their experience level doesn't translate into "Blue Chip" coming out of HS, doesn't necessarily mean they aren't blue chip players. It's not like a three star from Florida, who may become an instant contributor. Those FLA kids may not be blue chips, but they are kids who very often can come in and make an impact immediately. Those three star kids from NYC may not make an immediate impact, but may be better players after a couple of years in the program.

 

[CusefanATL]

That's just the point. The fact that their experience level doesn't translate into "Blue Chip" coming out of HS, doesn't necessarily mean they aren't blue chip players. It's not like a three star from Florida, who may become an instant contributor. Those FLA kids may not be blue chips, but they are kids who very often can come in and make an impact immediately. Those three star kids from NYC may not make an immediate impact, but may be better players after a couple of years in the program.

And the point with that, is that we have heard that for 15 years... And it's led to nothing. Maybe a surprise here and there, but the worst stretch of all time record wise.

Hate the recruiting services all you want... But they can be used for a ROUGH translation of future success.

 

[All4SU]

And the point with that, is that we have heard that for 15 years... And it's led to nothing. Maybe a surprise here and there, but the worst stretch of all time record wise.

Hate the recruiting services all you want... But they can be used for a ROUGH translation of future success.

I'm not hating on the recruiting services at all. Just the opposite. I'm saying a good player out of NYC may be a three-star, based on what they have shown. I'm just saying that a three-star out of NYC, "MAY" have a higher upside than a three star from FLA.

And as far as the last decade or so, I won't argue with you. I just like the consistency of the players HCDM is bringing in right now. Everyone seems to be a player who will eventually contribute. I'm excited about how our depth is rounding out at key positions, and I believe that being positive and upbeat about recruiting helps recruiting.

 

[JoeCollege]

I get confused: Are we putting stock in the recruiting services and gurus or not? If so, are they the same ones that brought the world Ron Powlus, Walter Moseley, and the like? Or do we trust the coaches? The same professionals that brought us Cecil Howard and the like?

In the end, Doug Marrone is the only one whose job and future are on the line here, so I guess I will go with him.

 

[CusefanATL]

I get confused: Are we putting stock in the recruiting services and gurus or not? If so, are they the same ones that brought the world Ron Powlus, Walter Moseley, and the like? Or do we trust the coaches? The same professionals that brought us Cecil Howard and the like?

In the end, Doug Marrone is the only one whose job and future are on the line here, so I guess I will go with him.

not a bad way to look at it.

 

[Cadillac]

So if we land the state's #1 player in Ogundeko are you on board?

Or ennnnhhh because he's only a three-star?

 

[CusefanATL]

So if we land the state's #1 player in Ogundeko are you on board?

Or ennnnhhh because he's only a three-star?

I really, really want him. But for me to be on truly board and say "wow, i think our recruiting has really turned a corner," I want 1 top 100ish player in any service. Just give me 1 and I am sure it will lead to a snowball rolling down a hill and catching fire.

And who knows, we may already have 1 in Zach Allen.

 

[GoSU96]

I really, really want him. But for me to be on truly board and say "wow, i think our recruiting has really turned a corner," I want 1 top 100ish player in any service. Just give me 1 and I am sure it will lead to a snowball rolling down a hill and catching fire.

And who knows, we may already have 1 in Zach Allen.

How many top 100 kids have ever signed with this program. When was that ever an expected occurance?

 

[CusefanATL]

How many top 100 kids have ever signed with this program. When was that ever an expected occurance?

Through out the 80's and 90's?

a good amount. We were regularly ranked in the top 15-25 recruiting classes.

 

[GoSU96]

Through out the 80's and 90's?

a good amount. We were regularly ranked in the top 15-25 recruiting classes.

Who? I can think of a handful, but that's it. What = "a good amount". 5, 10, 20?

 

[phil77]

Starts day 1 and has a wonderful 3 year career at Syracuse.

 

[CaliCuse]

This is top secret government work, boys. You laugh when he's called Kim Jong Bees, but the dude could make one phone call and have you instantly vaporized from space. My sources from MUFON say the code name of that device is "Deep Tanner". Sun burns have nothing on this little guy.

You've been warned.

Remember that when we go to visit the sun we/you should go at night.:crazy:

 

[CaliCuse]

Starts day 1 and has a wonderful 3 year career at Syracuse.

I presume its my guy Allen you speak of. Totally agree. He will be one of our "greats"#5?