Most underrated player of the 90's

[Jake]

John Wallace. Not only was he a flipping machine his SR year, but his decision to stay with SU through probation was absolutely critical to the overall health of the program. Not only did we continue to win, but his career culminated in a FF appearance.

Without him, I'm not sure jb survives.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Burgan was 90's kris joseph...

 

[cuseinseattle]

This stems from a discussion was having last night with a few other Syracuse alums. We all know what Moten did for the program, and how Wallace was the centerpiece of the FF team...but who were the quiet, under the radar guys without whom the team would not have accomplished what it did?

While a case by others was made for Elvir Ovcina, my own argument was for Lazarus Sims. Quiet confident team general, may be the most cerebral PG I have seen at Syracuse since I have been following the program. Made others better.

What say ye, fellow Orange faithful?

I couldn't stand Ovcina and never thought he was overrated. I would go with Ryan Blackwell.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Burgan was 90's kris joseph...

I was just going to make this comparison. Totally agree.

 

[Jake]

Ugh. Burgen. Don't get me started...

 

[HOFCeluck]

Ryan Blackwell...solid player, almost never gets talked about.

 

[KingOtis]

Off the ball players we had no point guard that year...

Uh...Jason Hart?

 

[KingOtis]

Burgan was 90's kris joseph...

I was just going to make this comparison. Totally agree.

Such an insult to Joseph.

 

[Jake]

One play sums up burgens career in my mind. BET semis against St. John's. burgen over dribbles on the games final possession. Loses the ball off his foot, scrambles for it on the floor, desperately flips the ball to Blackwell who drains the game winner.

Everyone walks away happy, burgen gets the game winning assist and all looks great on paper. But, it was a cluster moment.

Burgens entire career looks good on paper,..but it didn't tell the story.

 

[Gabjon]

Uh...Jason Hart?

He was horrible as a freshmen. He improved in his 4 years here more than any guard in SU history IMO.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

He was horrible as a freshmen. He improved in his 4 years here more than any guard in SU history IMO.

Was anyone else NEVER comfortable, watching Jason Hart? I just always felt like some crazy turnover/odd play was hanging in the balance when he was running the offense. I know we were fairly good in that stretch, but I never felt real comfortable during his years. Always loved his defense though.

 

[Gabjon]

One play sums up burgens career in my mind. BET semis against St. John's. burgen over dribbles on the games final possession. Loses the ball off his foot, scrambles for it on the floor, desperately flips the ball to Blackwell who drains the game winner.

Everyone walks away happy, burgen gets the game winning assist and all looks great on paper. But, it was a cluster moment.

Burgens entire career looks good on paper,..but it didn't tell the story.

LOL! Well maybe we need more clusterf*ck moments. In full disclosure I was a student in those days and was friends with many of the players including Todd. But if the conversation is purely about basketball and the ability to play the game he could really play and was better than most people are willing to give him credit for. I understand he will never be a fan favorite for a number of reasons, but his skill at the game shouldn't be one them.

 

[KingOtis]

He was horrible as a freshmen. He improved in his 4 years here more than any guard in SU history IMO.

He was named to the Big East All-Rookie Team. Saying we didn't have a point guard that year is an absolute stretch. The guy he replaced improved in his four years more than any guard in SU history.

 

[Gabjon]

Was anyone else NEVER comfortable, watching Jason Hart? I just always felt like some crazy turnover/odd play was hanging in the balance when he was running the offense. I know we were fairly good in that stretch, but I never felt real comfortable during his years. Always loved his defense though.

I think he was very good his last 2 years but a lot of fans were soured on him by then. It is similar to Scoop and how his senior year is marginalized because of mistakes he made as a junior.

 

[Gabjon]

He was named to the Big East All-Rookie Team. Saying we didn't have a point guard that year is an absolute stretch. The guy he replaced improved in his four years more than any guard in SU history.

Rookie of the year is largely about playing time Hart had mind numbing TOs as a freshmen, Sims' basketball skill didn't improve very much in his 4 years it was his maturity that improved. He didn't take the game seriously enough his first 3 years.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I'd like to hear more about why people think Elvir f@#!%ng Ovcina is "underrated."

 

[KingOtis]

I think he was very good his last 2 years but a lot of fans were soured on him by then. It is similar to Scoop and how his senior year is marginalized because of mistakes he made as a junior.

What? There's no comparison between Jason Hart and Scoop Jardine. And while the negatives probably outweigh the positives with Scoop, he's another guy who improved more in his four years than Hart. (That's because Hart was a much better player to begin with.)

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Ryan Blackwell...solid player, almost never gets talked about.

I always thought Blackwell was overrated. His Cuse career reminds me of Phil Mickelson's early golf career. A lot of natural talent but wasn't hungry enough to keep improving. Fortunately Phil finally learned how to win the Big One.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I always thought Blackwell was overrated. His Cuse career reminds me of Phil Mickelson's early golf career. A lot of natural talent but wasn't hungry enough to keep improving. Fortunately Phil finally learned how to win the Big One.

Maybe...I know nothing about how regarded he was out of HS since he was a transfer.

 

[KingOtis]

Rookie of the year is largely about playing time Hart had mind numbing TOs as a freshmen, Sims' basketball skill didn't improve very much in his 4 years it was his maturity that improved. He didn't take the game seriously enough his first 3 years.

Where are you getting this from?

Sims was only brought in because he was a local "hero". I don't think anyone ever imagined he would be the starting PG for the national runner-up. In fact, I don't think anyone imagined that when he was a junior.

 

[Gabjon]

Where are you getting this from?

Sims was only brought in because he was a local "hero". I don't think anyone ever imagined he would be the starting PG for the national runner-up. In fact, I don't think anyone imagined that when he was a junior.

Because I played pick-up with him and he could play, some of his passes were too good and people couldn't catch them. He needed to turn down some of the "hot sauce" but him ability to pass the ball and handle the ball he had from day one. His jumper wasn't much better his senior year than it was his freshmen year.

 

[KingOtis]

Because I played pick-up with him and he could play, some of his passes were too good and people couldn't catch them. He needed to turn down some of the "hot sauce" but him ability to pass the ball and handle the ball he had from day one. His jumper wasn't much better his senior year than it was his freshmen year.

I hate to break it to you, but playing pick-up with Gabjon doesn't really translate to D1 college basketball.

Obviously his jumper was better his senior year. How many big shots did he hit before then?

 

[NortheastOHSUfan]

This stems from a discussion was having last night with a few other Syracuse alums. We all know what Moten did for the program, and how Wallace was the centerpiece of the FF team...but who were the quiet, under the radar guys without whom the team would not have accomplished what it did?

While a case by others was made for Elvir Ovcina, my own argument was for Lazarus Sims. Quiet confident team general, may be the most cerebral PG I have seen at Syracuse since I have been following the program. Made others better.

What say ye, fellow Orange faithful?

Allen Griffin was without a doubt one of my all time favorites and rarely mentioned for his contributions. Very underrated guy who played with as much heart as any SU player that I can recall.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Ryan Blackwell was on that treadmill of mediocrity...

 

[Gabjon]

I hate to break it to you, but playing pick-up with Gabjon doesn't really translate to D1 college basketball.

Obviously his jumper was better his senior year. How many big shots did he hit before then?

LOL! Play me first. I played with a lot of people though my days and I have a couple of friends not from SU who played in the league even though I wasn't that good you can tell the guys who can play verse the ones who can't. Mike Lloyd for example couldn't play he was just strong and had hops. Weak jumper and weaker left hand.