my big concern with Boeheim is still the zone (steph curry effect?) | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

my big concern with Boeheim is still the zone (steph curry effect?)

The offensive player just has to step away from the 3 point line and they can pull out a blanket and do some yoga stretches. There is a force field that prevents our defenders from going any further. If your argument is that we actually try to put a body on them once they penetrate, well duh, I would hope we're at least making an effort there. The conventional definition of pressure defense means not giving the opponent a chance to breathe.


Have you ever considered that milking the shot clock with good ball reversal quite often leads to a breakdown in the zone rotations? It's part of the strategy to get a good shot. Coaches will also sometimes instruct teams to pass up a good opportunity early in the shot clock if they want to tire the defense out. If they can get a good look early in the shot clock, that means they often can get a good look whenever they choose.

But the worst part is also the thing that you choose to ignore -- longer possessions means fewer possessions... which reduces our margin for error and favors the team with less talent.

This may not be a bad thing for us next year...

There's a pretty good correlation between the teams witht he longest defensive possessions and the higher ranking defenses. It's not perfect or anything, but it's there.
 
Pretty sure when we play good zone defense it leads to turnovers and runouts.

It wasn't THAT long ago that we were praised as a great transition team.

An occasional rebound wouldn't hurt either.
 
This may not be a bad thing for us next year...

There's a pretty good correlation between the teams witht he longest defensive possessions and the higher ranking defenses. It's not perfect or anything, but it's there.

In Franco's world that leads to fewer possessions which somehow works to SU's disadvantage.

When that clock gets under 10 seconds, you see more and more foolish passes, shots and turnovers.
 
If anyone cares...

the 20 teams with the longest defensive possessions last year had a defensive efficiency (points per 100 possessions) of 98.02. The 20 fastest allowed 109.51 points per 100. West Virginia had the fastest defensive possessions, they're awesome defensively; pretty much everyone else in the top 20 sucked.
 
If anyone cares...

the 20 teams with the longest defensive possessions last year had a defensive efficiency (points per 100 possessions) of 98.02. The 20 fastest allowed 109.51 points per 100. West Virginia had the fastest defensive possessions, they're awesome defensively; pretty much everyone else in the top 20 sucked.

I could see that. Long defensive possessions can also mean a disciplined offense.
 
I could see that. Long defensive possessions can also mean a disciplined offense.

OK. And why would you need a "disciplined offense"?

Could it be that the offense doesn't have good opportunities so it chooses to wait until it has one? Sounds like a symptom of good defense to me.
 
An occasional rebound wouldn't hurt either.
Our rebounding incompetence is directly tied to our defensive philosophy. Rebounding is part of playing defense. You can't say we played great defense, we just suck at rebounding. Jimmy thinks it's all about "want to" and has nothing to do with fundamentals like boxing out.
 
OK. And why would you need a "disciplined offense"?

Could it be that the offense doesn't have good opportunities so it chooses to wait until it has one? Sounds like a symptom of good defense to me.

nm... I think I misread Knicks post.
 
I could see that. Long defensive possessions can also mean a disciplined offense.

I also think it may be less about the good defenses forcing long possessions (though there is something to that I'm sure) as much as the bad defenses don't put up much a fight so it's easy to score on them
 
Our rebounding incompetence is directly tied to our defensive philosophy. Rebounding is part of playing defense. You can't say we played great defense, we just suck at rebounding. Thanks to DC1, Jimmy thinks it's all about attitude and has nothing to do with boxing out.

So you think Boeheim doesn't care about boxing out?

I'm still trying to digest your theory about long defensive possessions somehow affecting our offense because the game is shorter. I'm pretty sure if you stop the opponent more times than they stop you, you win the game.
 
I don't know Townie. I didnt the make up the numbers Knicks posted.

I rarely watch the NBA, but I can see the propensity there to throw up the first shot even possible. And that maybe throwing just a few passes might be a better idea. So in their case, longer possessions might be worth striving for.

But that's not what happens in the college game. There's a different level of offensive talent.
 
I rarely watch the NBA, but I can see the propensity there to throw up the first shot even possible. And that maybe throwing just a few passes might be a better idea. So in their case, longer possessions might be worth striving for.

But that's not what happens in the college game. There's a different level of offensive talent.

I edited my post. I misread what knicks had posted about faster possessions.
 
Our rebounding incompetence is directly tied to our defensive philosophy. Rebounding is part of playing defense. You can't say we played great defense, we just suck at rebounding. Jimmy thinks it's all about "want to" and has nothing to do with fundamentals like boxing out.
No. Our rebounding incompetence in 2016-17 was directly tied to incompetent rebounders.
 
No. Our rebounding incompetence in 2016-17 was directly tied to incompetent rebounders.

Our defensive rebounding this year was actually (slightly) better than it was last year, by % of offensive rebounds allowed, at least. By ranking, it was slightly worse. But it's not like this year is an outlier really.
 
Our defensive rebounding this year was actually (slightly) better than it was last year, by % of offensive rebounds allowed, at least. By ranking, it was slightly worse. But it's not like this year is an outlier really.
That shocks me. No joke. This team was an abomination at rebounding the basketball.

But regardless, it's still personnel.
 
So you think Boeheim doesn't care about boxing out?

I'm still trying to digest your theory about long defensive possessions somehow affecting our offense because the game is shorter. I'm pretty sure if you stop the opponent more times than they stop you, you win the game.

Boeheim said he doesn't care about boxing out. He doesn't teach it.
 
That shocks me. No joke. This team was an abomination at rebounding the basketball.

But regardless, it's still personnel.

We're terrible at defensive rebounding every year. Some less than others, so it's personnel to an extent, but I think it's fair to say we'll never even be average as long as we play zone.
 
Our rebounding incompetence is directly tied to our defensive philosophy. Rebounding is part of playing defense. You can't say we played great defense, we just suck at rebounding. Jimmy thinks it's all about "want to" and has nothing to do with fundamentals like boxing out.
This team rebounded the ball poorly on both ends of the court this season. Are you suggesting JB's defensive philosophy was responsible for the poor offensive rebounding as well? Or could it be that this group was just wasn't very good at rebounding, and wouldn't have rebounded any more effectively had it played more man-to-man?
 
Boeheim's rationale, as I understand it, is that with limited practice time, he has chosen to concentrate on the single defense. You may not agree or you may point to lack of coaching ability to fit instruction in more than one defense into allocated practice time, but the rationale is sound. It stands to reason that concentrating all available time on a single defense would allow it to be better than splitting the time between two or more defenses. It certainly maximizes the potential of that one defense. Possibly that trade off is not worth it when you factor in actual game situations where a change in defense could disrupt the other team, but these are debatable points. I reject the idea that it is a lazy or wrongheaded approach to focus on the one defense. We've observed that some squads pick it up and commit to it more than others and it is that factor that is primary, not the scheme.

I will add, that this year JB did see it coming. He knew this team was going to struggle to pick up the zone and that is why we saw some M2M in the preconference season. He saw that they weren't great at that either and went back to marshaling all resources towards getting the zone better. Again - we could debate that, was it his fault they couldn't do well enough in either defense, I don't know. But he had to make a decision and he made it.


JB points out that when a MTM team gets lit up, nobody says the coach should have switched to a zone.
 
SU is 57th at 37.9%

That would've ranked
15-16 39th in the country
14-15 47th
13-14 47th
12-13 28th
11-12 33rd
10-11 30th
09-10 34th
08-09 34th

I'm glad i kept going though . In 07-08, 37.9% would've been 56th, in 06-07, it would've been 51st

I thought 38% would've been much better than that. Interesting numbers, this is why I normally check first rather than go with my gut!
 
SU is 57th at 37.9%

That would've ranked
15-16 39th in the country
14-15 47th
13-14 47th
12-13 28th
11-12 33rd
10-11 30th
09-10 34th
08-09 34th

I'm glad i kept going though . In 07-08, 37.9% would've been 56th, in 06-07, it would've been 51st

I thought 38% would've been much better than that. Interesting numbers, this is why I normally check first rather than go with my gut!

Maybe this was already discussed but with no evidence backing this I feel like a lot of smaller schools skew those numbers. Typically they have less athletic players and so they aren't as good defensively and their players are better shooters because they can't drive by everyone and dunk over them.

Eagerly awaiting a post showing how completely wrong I am.
 

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