my big concern with Boeheim is still the zone (steph curry effect?)

[OrangeDW]

This team rebounded the ball poorly on both ends of the court this season. Are you suggesting JB's defensive philosophy was responsible for the poor offensive rebounding as well? Or could it be that this group was just wasn't very good at rebounding, and wouldn't have rebounded any more effectively had it played more man-to-man?

My opinion, which I have no idea if it's statistically proven but it makes sense to me, is that when we have a SF that's a stud on the boards we are a fine rebounding team.

Billy Owens, Melo, Wes Johnson, CJ Fair, Brown/Blackwell(I still don't know who was considered the SF) stand out as some of our better rebounding SF's. Guys who averaged 7-10 boards. When we've got a SF back there getting 4-5 boards, we'll have a tougher time because that's a weak link. We've got 3 guys back there, they all need to be able to board.

Also, I felt like our guards really sucked at getting the long rebounds this year.

 

[Millhouse]

Maybe this was already discussed but with no evidence backing this I feel like a lot of smaller schools skew those numbers. Typically they have less athletic players and so they aren't as good defensively and their players are better shooters because they can't drive by everyone and dunk over them.

Eagerly awaiting a post showing how completely wrong I am.

you might be right. it might explain why i thought syracuse would rank higher than they do

2016-17 School Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

there aren't many p5 schools better than SU

 

[SWC75]

My opinion, which I have no idea if it's statistically proven but it makes sense to me, is that when we have a SF that's a stud on the boards we are a fine rebounding team.

Billy Owens, Melo, Wes Johnson, CJ Fair, Brown/Blackwell(I still don't know who was considered the SF) stand out as some of our better rebounding SF's. Guys who averaged 7-10 boards. When we've got a SF back there getting 4-5 boards, we'll have a tougher time because that's a weak link. We've got 3 guys back there, they all need to be able to board.

Also, I felt like our guards really sucked at getting the long rebounds this year.

Our best teams have had two power forwards. Coleman/Owens, Anthony/Warrick, even Wallace/Burgan and Johnson/Joseph might qualify.

 

[OrangeDW]

Our best teams have had two power forwards. Coleman/Owens, Anthony/Warrick, even Wallace/Burgan and Johnson/Joseph might qualify.

Good point. And Burgan is another solid rebounder that I forgot to mention.

 

[Toga]

I need to see more than one down year, but you might be on to something.

however, if JB hires a data-oriented assistant, there are still tweaks to be made to keep the zone effective:

most shooters have their favorite spots on the floor. a 40% three point shooter might be 47% from the corners, 39% from the top but below 30% from the wings. they themselves might not be aware of those disparities; they think they are dead eye 40% shooters. the key then is identifying opponents weaker spots and baiting them into shooting from there.

it will require more prep work from the staff and more awareness from the players, but it's do-able.

Like a reserve on my alma mater's team. He had one skill and that was shooting from the corner. Totally useless unless he shot from the corner.

 

[Toga]

I've said this before. With the shorter shot clock the zone could be even more effective if you employed a soft 1-3-1 press to eat an additional 5 seconds off the shot clock, leaving a team with 20 seconds to solve the zone. Seems so obvious - but nooooo.

 

[tbonezone]

let's just say for the sake of argument we start C chukwu PF thompson SF moyer SG battle PG frank.
are we going to hear the same old tired argument come next march by JB :
" we're starting 4 new players at new positions and they just don't get the zone rotations yet..."
if your own team hasn't figured out your own defense by december 1st. SCRAP IT and start over !

 

[Townie72]

let's just say for the sake of argument we start C chukwu PF thompson SF moyer SG battle PG frank.
are we going to hear the same old tired argument come next march by JB :
" we're starting 4 new players at new positions and they just don't get the zone rotations yet..."
if your own team hasn't figured out your own defense by december 1st. SCRAP IT and start over !

You wrote, "if your own team hasn't figured out your own defense by december 1st. SCRAP IT and start over !"

And that little blurb explains why JB is doing what he is doing and you are doing what you are doing. Lack of patience and simple answers to complicated problems are not how it's done.

 

[tbonezone]

we're playing in our conference tournament and he's standing at the mic after another loss again saying we don't know our rotations.

that's great coaching.

 

[NineOneSeven]

My opinion, which I have no idea if it's statistically proven but it makes sense to me, is that when we have a SF that's a stud on the boards we are a fine rebounding team.

Billy Owens, Melo, Wes Johnson, CJ Fair, Brown/Blackwell(I still don't know who was considered the SF) stand out as some of our better rebounding SF's. Guys who averaged 7-10 boards. When we've got a SF back there getting 4-5 boards, we'll have a tougher time because that's a weak link. We've got 3 guys back there, they all need to be able to board.

Also, I felt like our guards really sucked at getting the long rebounds this year.

Last year we had a 2G playing back there and both of these years a 4 playing a 5.

 

[Knicks411]

My opinion, which I have no idea if it's statistically proven but it makes sense to me, is that when we have a SF that's a stud on the boards we are a fine rebounding team.

Billy Owens, Melo, Wes Johnson, CJ Fair, Brown/Blackwell(I still don't know who was considered the SF) stand out as some of our better rebounding SF's. Guys who averaged 7-10 boards. When we've got a SF back there getting 4-5 boards, we'll have a tougher time because that's a weak link. We've got 3 guys back there, they all need to be able to board.

Also, I felt like our guards really sucked at getting the long rebounds this year.

The numbers on KP only go back so far, but here is how we ranked in offensive rebounding % allowed, the actual #, and the national rank

2002: 38%, 295th
2003: 36.6%, 278th
2004: 38.6%, 311th
2005: 36.6%, 276th
2006: 36.4%, 272nd
2007: 36.4%, 297th
2008: 31.9%, 122nd
2009: 35.5%, 274th
2010: 34.6%, 260th
2011: 33%, 211th
2012: 39.2%, 341st
2013: 34.4%, 281st
2014: 31.5%, 175th
2015: 31.3%, 179th
2016: 35.3%337th
2017: 34.5% 335th

There are currently 351 D-1 teams, I think that number has grown since 2002. Anyway, the top half would be 175th or so. We've ranked clearly in the top half in defensive rebounding once in this period, in 2008. Not a very good team. In 2014 and 2015 we were right on the borderline of being top half in the country. The last 2 years we've been terrible. But in 2003, we won the title, a nd were 278th in the country in defensive rebounding, pretty awful. The 2010 team was great, they were 260th. In 2012, we lost what, 3 games all year, and that was the worst we've ever finished in defensive rebounding.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The numbers on KP only go back so far, but here is how we ranked in offensive rebounding % allowed, the actual #, and the national rank

2002: 38%, 295th
2003: 36.6%, 278th
2004: 38.6%, 311th
2005: 36.6%, 276th
2006: 36.4%, 272nd
2007: 36.4%, 297th
2008: 31.9%, 122nd
2009: 35.5%, 274th
2010: 34.6%, 260th
2011: 33%, 211th
2012: 39.2%, 341st
2013: 34.4%, 281st
2014: 31.5%, 175th
2015: 31.3%, 179th
2016: 35.3%337th
2017: 34.5% 335th

There are currently 351 D-1 teams, I think that number has grown since 2002. Anyway, the top half would be 175th or so. We've ranked clearly in the top half in defensive rebounding once in this period, in 2008. Not a very good team. In 2014 and 2015 we were right on the borderline of being top half in the country. The last 2 years we've been terrible. But in 2003, we won the title, a nd were 278th in the country in defensive rebounding, pretty awful. The 2010 team was great, they were 260th. In 2012, we lost what, 3 games all year, and that was the worst we've ever finished in defensive rebounding.

I remember a game against West Virginia in 2012 we won by 2 at the dome we were outrebounded like 50-20 and still won. I believe that was a game Huggins went nuts cause Keita goaltended a shot and the officials didn't call it.

 

[Knicks411]

I remember a game against West Virginia in 2012 we won by 2 at the dome we were outrebounded like 50-20 and still won. I believe that was a game Huggins went nuts cause Keita goaltended a shot and the officials didn't call it.

West Virginia vs. Syracuse - Box Score - January 28, 2012 - ESPN

41-21.

 

[SWC75]

The numbers on KP only go back so far, but here is how we ranked in offensive rebounding % allowed, the actual #, and the national rank

2002: 38%, 295th
2003: 36.6%, 278th
2004: 38.6%, 311th
2005: 36.6%, 276th
2006: 36.4%, 272nd
2007: 36.4%, 297th
2008: 31.9%, 122nd
2009: 35.5%, 274th
2010: 34.6%, 260th
2011: 33%, 211th
2012: 39.2%, 341st
2013: 34.4%, 281st
2014: 31.5%, 175th
2015: 31.3%, 179th
2016: 35.3%337th
2017: 34.5% 335th

There are currently 351 D-1 teams, I think that number has grown since 2002. Anyway, the top half would be 175th or so. We've ranked clearly in the top half in defensive rebounding once in this period, in 2008. Not a very good team. In 2014 and 2015 we were right on the borderline of being top half in the country. The last 2 years we've been terrible. But in 2003, we won the title, a nd were 278th in the country in defensive rebounding, pretty awful. The 2010 team was great, they were 260th. In 2012, we lost what, 3 games all year, and that was the worst we've ever finished in defensive rebounding.

You could posit that anything that we aren't ranked 68th in is making it harder to get into the NCAA tournament.

Of course JB has acknowledged that it's harder to rebound from zone: he hopes to make up the difference in turnovers. This year we didn't do that.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I can't believe we were that bad of a rebounding team with Melo and Warrick on the back line.

 

[br801]

You could posit that anything that we aren't ranked 68th in is making it harder to get into the NCAA tournament.

Of course JB has acknowledged that it's harder to rebound from zone: he hopes to make up the difference in turnovers. This year we didn't do that.

They usually make up for some of it by being good on the offensive glass. But this team was pretty weak there, too, once Coleman stopped seeing minutes and Roberson's play regressed.

 

[SWC75]

I think the big thing next year will be to improve the defense. We tied to outscore people this year and it wasn't enough. Even if we lose something on offense, we are better off being able to stop people and stay in games or in control of them when the offense has a drought. I think we can get better. Howard will be better than Gillon, (I'm talking defense), in the back court. A healthy Chukwu would help and Thompson showed sings of finally beginning to "get it" at the end of the season. We don't know what Moyer will be like on 'D'. At least we should have impressive size, with a 6-4, 6-6 back court, 6-8, 6-10 forwards, a 7-2 center and 6-11, 6-9 and a 6-3 guard on the bench. And we don't know what other guys, (2, I'd guess) they'll be bringing in.

They will also have a low bar to clear in playing better defense than this year's team.