My name is dasher, and I have a problem

[Millhouse]

Wake is located in North Carolina which doesn't hurt from a recruiting base standpoint particularly playing in a conference that is mostly located in the southeast. But, regardless, i do think the goal is to expect something around an 8-win season more often than not. I'm not saying we get there or that it's even possible to get there but 6-6 seasons basically mean scheduling three wins with mid-majors/FCS teams and then going 3-6 in the rest of the games. I guess that's OK but I'm not sure I'd call that relevance.

To be clear, I agree 6-6/7-6 could be our ceiling most of the time, I just wouldn't define that as particularly relevant and my point is that returning to football relevance seems far-fetched with where we stand in the landscape of college football.

Schedules are a little harder generally. Long term, i can live with 5-7, 6-6 against good schedules if there special seasons thrown in. I don't want to be pitt. If it means we are a higher variance program, fine. 2013 is totally forgettable to me, maybe it shouldn't be but 5-7, 7-5, whatever. I want really good years and I'll check out the others.

 

[billsin01]

Schedules are a little harder generally. Long term, i can live with 5-7, 6-6 against good schedules if there special seasons thrown in. I don't want to be pitt. If it means we are a higher variance program, fine. 2013 is totally forgettable to me, maybe it shouldn't be but 5-7, 7-5, whatever. I want really good years and I'll check out the others.

I'm with you and I like playing better teams out of conference. A cupcake a year is fine but even though we got crushed I was at least excited for the maryland game. Playing Western Michigan/Liberty/Holy Cross and then getting excited about a 6-win season (which ironically would be super exciting at this point) seems impossibly lame to me. Not saying it's anyone's fault just given the landscape but I just don't count that as any sort of actual relevance.

 

[billsin01]

I would agree with you that Welch might be better suited in this environment. And there's an argument that could be made that TD might sustain a career-ending injury getting sacked this many times.

But that's not what we are seeing. So that leads you to guessing about the reasons for that.

A list of possibilities might include:

1. The staff thinks that our chances to win games in 2019 are better with TD than with Welch. Sure he's having problems, but he's getting better.(They disagree with you.)

2. That playing TD is an investment in the future. He has to experience this and learn how to operate under these circumstances. It's the football equivalent of throwing the kid in the pool to incent him to learn to swim.

2A. Consequences of benching TD - It will cause him to lose confidence or to transfer. His and his family's expectations were so high they couldn't deal with it.

2B. That benching him will somehow impact future recruits. (e.g., "Look what happened to TD up there.")

I'm pretty sure it's option 1 and maybe 2 as well. Not sure on 2A and 2B only because kids getting benched or losing jobs happens and we aren't exactly landing a bunch of qbs as it is. Losing confidence is questionable only b/c I'm not sure his confidence could get much lower. I'm fine with Dino sticking with TD simply b/c I don't know what playing welch does for us longterm and because I'm not the head coach. It is what it is so I'm not vehemently arguing we should be seeing welch next week.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I'm with you and I like playing better teams out of conference. A cupcake a year is fine but even though we got crushed I was at least excited for the maryland game. Playing Western Michigan/Liberty/Holy Cross and then getting excited about a 6-win season (which ironically would be super exciting at this point) seems impossibly lame to me. Not saying it's anyone's fault just given the landscape but I just don't count that as any sort of actual relevance.

That's pretty par for scheduling throughout the conference. I think Wake played Utah St, Rice and poor little Elon.

 

[billsin01]

Depends on the meaning of compete. Compete with Clemson year-in and year-out? Fugghedaboutit. Compete for second place in the Atlantic , if FSU cannot get back to where they were, why not?

I think a lot of this discussion is about this exact theme -- can we really be the second-best team in our side of the conference in most seasons? You argue why not but my fear is that there are a ton of reasons why not.

 

[billsin01]

That's pretty par for scheduling throughout the conference. I think Wake played Utah St, Rice and poor little Elon.

I'm a lone wolf on that one. I realize that. But I would argue that Wake arguing it's relevant in any real way in college football would be a stretch and perhaps laughable.

 

[bigmike]

they suffered quite a bit to get that half season where he mastered the RPO

he was so great his senior year and hardly anyone nationally knew about it.

If TD develops like Wolford did - we will all be dancing in the aisles (and I think he can).
That clinic he put on in the Dome 2 seasons ago was very painful. I just made myself shudder thinking about it.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I'm a lone wolf on that one. I realize that. But I would argue that Wake arguing it's relevant in any real way in college football would be a stretch and perhaps laughable.

OK. Clemson played TAMU, UNC Charlotte, and will end the season with Wofford.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

dave clawson is 34-36 there
addazio is 42-42

i think babers will be better than that 30-40 games from now

He would have to go 13-12 in his next 25 to catch Clawson. Unless something changes soon, Dino ain’t getting there.

He would need to go 21-18 to catch Addazio. He has a better chance to catch Addazio. But he better get some wins soon or that won’t happen either.

 

[billsin01]

OK. Clemson played TAMU, UNC Charlotte, and will end the season with Wofford.

yes, like I said I'm the only one who sees it this way. If I'm a clemson, I'm not complaining about a thing b/c I love all the titles and the way it's set up you can't afford to get to crazy with the schedule. I just like seeing good teams play.

But having said that clemson's relevance is because they are going 9-0 or 8-1 the rest of the way. If you have three gimmes (and TAMU is legit in clemson's case, obviously) and then you 3-6 it's a pretty lame season. Or, at least not something that gets anyone excited.

 

[Millhouse]

He would have to go 13-12 in his next 25 to catch Clawson. Unless something changes soon, Dino ain’t getting there.

He would need to go 21-18 to catch Addazio. He has a better chance to catch Addazio. But he better get some wins soon or that won’t happen either.

Of course something would have to change. It's reasonable to expect they'll get better. This is not a hopeless team, they just need to not be terrible at o line, it's not that big a change

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Of course something would have to change. It's reasonable to expect they'll get better. This is not a hopeless team, they just need to not be terrible at o line, it's not that big a change

I was talking this year. If we go 1-3 to finish the season, do you really think we will go 13-8 in our next 21? Or 21-14 in our next 35? Those are both 8-5 averages.

 

[Millhouse]

I was talking this year. If we go 1-3 to finish the season, do you really think we will go 13-8 in our next 21? Or 21-14 in our next 35? Those are both 8-5 averages.

I think there will be some really good years here like last year. So yeah I think they have a chance at that

 

[sufandu]

I should clarify. Everyone talks of relevance and to me this means you're a pretty good team every year (or at least almost every year) and then you're occasionally really good and/or get a few breaks along the way to make a push for a conference title and a good bowl.

For example, from '87-'01 we were never below .500 (maybe a tad unrealistic) and had a bunch of 9+ win seasons. Spent a bunch of time in the top 25.

Conversely, from '02 until today we've been through a bunch of coaches and have six seasons north of .500 ( out of 18 if we don't get there this year) and have just two appearances in the top 25 -- last season and then the preseason rankings this year which are long since in the rear view.

So we're not competing we clemson, we can all understand that. But I wonder if we (and the same goes for basically every northeast school outside of PedState -- maryland/pitt/rutgers/bc/cuse) can really expect to cultivate a consistently competitive program to what we got accustomed to in the 80s/90s? I hope so but I really don't know. I tend to feel the answer is no.

The comment I responded to was specifically about how much Dabo gets paid. Clemson is completely different animal than everyone in the conference. The schools in the ACC aside from Clemson and maybe FSU have no significant advantage over us financially or reputationally. It's going overboard to suggest we can't be relevant. We don't have to contend for the ACC championship or a spot in the playoff annually to be relevant. Being consistently ranked and one of the better teams in the conference would make us relevant and is attainable.

 

[JRHEETER]

I remember a very distinctive quote...

Consistently good not occasionally great...I just hope we get to that sometime soon

 

[KaiserUEO]

i refuse to attend any meeting with dasher unless he pays for steaks and drinks after.

that said, Cuse is going to a Bowl.

 

[Finwad32]

View attachment 172138

You know, the 90s were great for sports movies. Why do none of these exist anymore? Angels in the outfield, Rookie of the Year, what was the one with the Minnesota twins?, Celtic Pride... These are just the ones involving pro sports teams, it’s not even touching Necessary Roughness, The Program, Rudy, the mighty ducks, etc.

 

[Chip]

Watching SU play this year is like watching Japanese "Kabuki Theater".

In Kabuki Theater the outcome of the plays never varies. It's preordained. People watch to see very minor variances in the centuries old script.

In each of the games this year I have anticipated that the real SU football team would show itself. That we would snap out of this sleepwalking through games. I've even held out hope for the second half of games after watching quite bad first half performances.

Our placekicking couldn't possible be this mediocre. Our receivers can't continue to drop balls that hit them in the hands. Our QB can't repeatedly throw the ball over the heads of open receivers, not look at open secondary receivers or pull the ball down and eat it as the blitzers collapse the pocket. (He has, however, addressed the Intentional Grounding problem from earlier in the season, but maybe not in the way we wished he would.)

Its gotten to the point that I'm surprised when an inside run goes for more than two yards or when the OL doesn't jump prior to the snap.

My hat's off to people who believe --- or say they believe --- that some sort of metamorphosis is possible and that we will go on a winning streak. ("Hope springs eternal ...") It could happen, but it's not like we have to fix one or two areas to right the ship.

I fully expect that rest of the games will pretty much go like the earlier games against P-5 competition. It'll be like Kabuki Theater. I know what the outcome is going to be, I just want to watch the minor variations. Maybe there will be something that bodes well for next season. It would be nice to close out on something that approximates a high note so there might be some carry over to next season.

If we lose to BC, I'm all in on this Kabuki Theatering our way to a 3-9 season. And will admit that I should have done so after the NC State debacle, and maybe even after the Maryland debacle.

But for now, I think we can beat BC. And if we do, I think we can use the week off and win in deserted Durham.

I don't see a path beyond that. But 5 wins is better than 3. I guess. Being winless in the ACC and winless against P5 is a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Townie72]

If we lose to BC, I'm all in on this Kabuki Theatering our way to a 3-9 season. And will admit that I should have done so after the NC State debacle, and maybe even after the Maryland debacle.

But for now, I think we can beat BC. And if we do, I think we can use the week off and win in deserted Durham.

I don't see a path beyond that. But 5 wins is better than 3. I guess. Being winless in the ACC and winless against P5 is a tough pill to swallow.

I'd love to see us beat BC. I'd love to see this team magically catch on and win out. The first part of the season would be just a bad dream.

But, I have no expectations that this will happen. I'll watch. I'll root. But I've seen too much of this Kabuki play to expect it to end any other way. Instead, I'll take pleasure on minor accomplishments like first downs or third down stops.

If you listen to DB's explanation, they seem to center on intangibles. In the last one (pre-BC) he talked about maybe trying"too hard" and screwing up by doing so.

Maybe so. But I'd really like to see a post-mortem that explained in some depth just why this particular team is so bad at so many things.

I hope you don't have to take that pill. But if you do, I'd reommend a very large glass of water with it.

 

[TheCusian]

I'd love to see us beat BC. I'd love to see this team magically catch on and win out. The first part of the season would be just a bad dream.

But, I have no expectations that this will happen. I'll watch. I'll root. But I've seen too much of this Kabuki play to expect it to end any other way. Instead, I'll take pleasure on minor accomplishments like first downs or third down stops.

If you listen to DB's explanation, they seem to center on intangibles. In the last one (pre-BC) he talked about maybe trying"too hard" and screwing up by doing so.

Maybe so. But I'd really like to see a post-mortem that explained in some depth just why this particular team is so bad at so many things.

I hope you don't have to take that pill. But if you do, I'd reommend a very large glass of water with it.

What I wouldn’t give for a thoroughly honest assessment from Dino. I suspect a lot of it is “in family” stuff - but man, fans are related to the family and it’s been a tough season.

 

[690West]

Of course something would have to change. It's reasonable to expect they'll get better. This is not a hopeless team, they just need to not be terrible at o line, it's not that big a change

Millhouse 4EVA