My thoughts on Syracuse in the top 5

[billsin01]

Meh, we're eight games in and we're in a new league.

She overstated it, but the point is valid: it's a bit presumptuous to be talking about our championship hopes before we've played a game. If we're 8-0 in league play, bring on the talk.

Yeah, anyone who doesn't feel like we're 16 miles from actually winning the ACC title is kidding themselves. We've gotten off to really, really good starts before. Weren't we 19-1 the Shumpert/DeShaun Williams year with a Great Alaska Shootout title before tanking and nearly missing the tourney?

Great start, long way to go. Not much to argue about there, IMO.

 

[billsin01]

But I suppose most "experts" bank on Coach K's track record getting teams into fighting form and assume he'll do it again. But 16 miles away? Please!

Well, K does always seem to squeeze a ton of wins out of most of his teams and has had plenty of post season success, so I'm pretty sure he's going to get the benefit of the doubt for a long time. And, by the way, JB gets it too. We lost a ton of key pieces each of the past two seasons but we still get preseason top 10 rankings b/c people are used to JB winning a bunch of games every year. It's really OK.

 

[billsin01]

While I agree w you, here's what bothers me. Even before AOs injury, we were losing to gtown in the bet. Also we lost to cinci in bet w fab. JB just has not come thru as the favorite. I hope he changes that. Before he retires. I do t see why he can't. go Orange!!

I'm not sure I get the whole 'JB hasn't come through as a favorite' angle? I mean, his job is to get good talent and put quality teams on the floor have a chance to make a good run in March. He does this basically year-in and year-out and it's been particularly good lately.

But March exits are most of the time a matter of a good team running into a bad matchup or having an off night at the wrong time. It happens b/c it's a small sample against (in most cases) another really good team. Unless we're going to point to Richmond and UVM as JB's lasting legacy, I'm just not sure many of our losses have been 'upsets' in the tourney. I mean, off teh top of my head I can think of losses to MSU and Kansas in the JHart era (both were better teams), Mizzou in the Autry era (very good team), Illinois (loaded team), Arkansas (a game we could have won against a really good team), Marquette (really solid program which was obviously exceedingly familiar with our system and personnel), UK in 96 (a freaking loaded group), OSU (good team and obviously Fab hurt us to some degree), and even Butler, which went to back-to-back title games and nearly hit a buzzer-beater to win one. I don't know -- I just don't see many bad losses.

 

[CusefanATL]

I'm not sure I get the whole 'JB hasn't come through as a favorite' angle? I mean, his job is to get good talent and put quality teams on the floor have a chance to make a good run in March. He does this basically year-in and year-out and it's been particularly good lately.

But March exits are most of the time a matter of a good team running into a bad matchup or having an off night at the wrong time. It happens b/c it's a small sample against (in most cases) another really good team. Unless we're going to point to Richmond and UVM as JB's lasting legacy, I'm just not sure many of our losses have been 'upsets' in the tourney. I mean, off teh top of my head I can think of losses to MSU and Kansas in the JHart era (both were better teams), Mizzou in the Autry era (very good team), Illinois (loaded team), Arkansas (a game we could have won against a really good team), Marquette (really solid program which was obviously exceedingly familiar with our system and personnel), UK in 96 (a freaking loaded group), OSU (good team and obviously Fab hurt us to some degree), and even Butler, which went to back-to-back title games and nearly hit a buzzer-beater to win one. I don't know -- I just don't see many bad losses.

because you conveniently left off richmond and vermont.

there definitely is credence to the "Jim Boeheim isnt the best at coming through as a favorite"

you know another way of putting it that would sound better? "Jim Boeheim is great at maximizing talent when people are doubting him" see 1996, 2003, 2010 and even 2013 for example.

 

[billsin01]

because you conveniently left off richmond and vermont.

there definitely is credence to the "Jim Boeheim isnt the best at coming through as a favorite"

you know another way of putting it that would sound better? "Jim Boeheim is great at maximizing talent when people are doubting him" see 1996, 2003, 2010 and even 2013 for example.

Read it again. I actually didn't leave them off. In fact, I mentioned them first. So you're pointing to two losses and feeling that makes a trend of under-performing? I might be in the minority but I tend to think by the time you're past the first round of the tourney these days, nothing's a given.

 

[NKR1978]

I don't think a final four is ever a given so I'm with you on that and it's hard to play the what-if game regardless. But I'm not sure I understand how we feel the 09-10 team was overrated.

Here's some of what they accomplished:

30-5, 15-3
Since 85-86 when I came on board the only teams to exceed that win percentage in BE play (.833) were the '11-'12 group (17-1) and the 85-86 team (14-2, .875). That's the list. Now others came pretty close ('99-00, 86-87, 89-90, 90-91), but no other teams in 25+ years matched that feat.

14.5 ppg margin of victory
Since 79-80 the only team to exceed that amount was the 85-86 group (15.1). That's the list. In close to 35 years there's one team that won games by a larger margin. Obviously not a perfect stat given relative strength of schedule considerations, but still pretty impressive.

80.9 ppg
The highest scoring average since 94-95.

I don't know if they would have won a title or not and I suppose it's immaterial anyway, but that was a really, really, really good team and easily one of the best in the illustrious history of this program, IMO

I'm not disagreeing and not trying to denigrate that team at all. That team was such a joy to watch and i was literally heartbroken when they lost. didnt watch a second of basketball at any level until our first exhibition the next season. I just think you can look at the way they were completely embarrassed by Louisville and Pitt and see that certain types of teams would beat it. That's why I savor that win against Wisconsin in 2012. To me we slayed so many demons that night.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I'm always fascinated by the tone of some in our fanbase. When others refer to us as elite, or a great traditional cbb power, these are the folks who quickly pipe up to remind us of all the things we "lack"- ie; "not enough final fours", "Vermont, Richmond, Keith Smart", "not enough pros", etc. ...like we're the only program to face those kinda issues.
The emphasis on the negative is...interesting, & a decidedly "typical" Syracuse trait.
It's like we shy away from the good stuff, cause we're always expecting that inevitable snow storm around the corner.
A generalization? Perhaps, but it's something I've witnessed as a fan & alum for over 35 years.
JMHO