My two cents, having now seen the team

[SoBeCuse]

I guess it’s how we define high-enders’. I meant more guys like bazely and Carey. Even Brissett feels like he could be a short-timer. I don’t think we’ll end up exclusively recruiting guys we think are going to be here for 3/4 years

If they want to go that route and play the reloading game then they have to get Bazely’s and Carey’s every year at minimum. Or just guys ready to step it and produce from day 1. Agree that Brissett looks like that type.

 

[Townie72]

I’m sure you’re aware that they recruit to and for a certain system just like Boeheim does. They aren’t worried about length. I think they care about gritty ball handlers with multiple skill sets. Guys who will excel in M2M. One cannot deny that during Villanova’s current run of excellent play on the court; they have had a better collection of guards who handle the ball better, who are quicker, and with better skill sets than our guys despite the overall recruiting rankings differences which seem to indicate that Syracuse generally recruits better in terms of incoming talent. They get their guys to stay longer and develop better while our raw guys with the NBA measurables bolt the first chance they get. I worry about our current collection of overall guard talent trying to emulate the Villanova style of offense. Sidibe has a chance to be a better Ochefu-type of C though. Frank doesn’t look like he could make it off the bench for a good Villanova team. Tyus can play anywhere.

Recruiting is an inexact science but I like how they have built continuity more than we have. Of course their system allows it more I think by not relying on the damn zone which caters to length and attractive NBA measurables. Oh, and we could’ve had Jalen Brunson .

I think the more deeper issue is how we can get our more talented players (who are often still raw/limited) to stay in school a little longer.

Yet another reason for SU to continue to play the Zone exclusively. We don't have to complete so frequently against teams recruiting for M2M exclusively. We are looking for a slightly different player.

That must be a rhetorical question about getting players to stay longer. How in the Hell are you going to do that with all the money out there? Or is your job to point out the issues and have someone else solve them?

 

[Townie72]

If they want to go that route and play the reloading game then they have to get Bazely’s and Carey’s every year at minimum. Or just guys ready to step it and produce from day 1. Agree that Brissett looks like that type.

Now just for the sake of argument, that it were near impossible to get players like Bazely and Carey every year because 1.) There ain't that many of them or 2.) There is so much competition for them or 3.) Some of these schools and their boosters appear to be doing things that SU is unwilling to do to procure their services?

What then is the recruiting strategy?

And how does that differ from what we are doing and have been doing?

 

[SoBeCuse]

Yet another reason for SU to continue to play the Zone exclusively. We don't have to complete so frequently against teams recruiting for M2M exclusively. We are looking for a slightly different player.

That must be a rhetorical question about getting players to stay longer. How in the Hell are you going to do that with all the money out there? Or is your job to point out the issues and have someone else solve them?

It is rhetorical, sure. But it happens at other power/elite programs.

 

[Funk Doc]

I'd get it if he left for the NBA but don't understand the trek back to Europe after a year or two here if he does have NBA talent.

Yeah, it's very strange. I believe he also said, one of the main reasons he chose Cuse, was because of the way they develop their wings. Unless he feels they are going to do it in a year or so? It just doesn't make sense.

There's a crap load of talent there, but very underdeveloped, and will take more than couple years...IMO.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Now just for the sake of argument, that it were near impossible to get players like Bazely and Carey every year because 1.) There ain't that many of them or 2.) There is so much competition for them or 3.) Some of these schools and their boosters appear to be doing things that SU is unwilling to do to procure their services?

What then is the recruiting strategy?

And how does that differ from what we are doing and have been doing?

I think it is a little different because we need to land some more of the McD guys to compete with the big boy/reloading game and stay competitive on the court...IF we’re going to go that route. I don’t know. Then again many of the McD types probably don’t want to play all zone. I just want to look competent on the court. Be competitive and don’t look overmatched for the most part. Aside from a miracle F4 run (let’s call it how it was), we’ve been blown out of tons of games and needed furious and unlikley rallies for some wins or more competitive scores for awhile now.

 

[Townie72]

It is rhetorical, sure. But it happens at other power/elite programs.

I'd love to hear that sales pitch to get the kid to stay.

I know it has happened but it depends a lot on the uncertainty as to whether the player will be drafted or that if he stays he'll make a lot more money in the long run.

Tyler Lydon signed a two year contract. The guesses I have seen is that if he plays four years that he'll earn up to $8 million dollars. Eight million bucks is serious, life changing money.

It would have been nice if he had stayed another year, but c'mon. We are tlaking millions of dollars, here.

 

[Townie72]

I think it is a little different because we need to land some more of the McD guys to compete with the big boy/reloading game and stay competitive on the court...IF we’re going to go that route. I don’t know. Then again many of the McD types probably don’t want to play all zone. I just want to look competent on the court. Be competitive and don’t look overmatched for the most part. Aside from a miracle F4 run (let’s call it how it was), we’ve been blown out of tons of games and needed furious and unlikley rallies for some wins or more competitive scores for awhile now.

You wrote, "Then again many of the McD types probably don’t want to play all zone."

The ONLY place I have ever heard of that as a concept is on this board and even then it's a select few that seem to want it to be true.

 

[TinyManInside]

You wrote, "Then again many of the McD types probably don’t want to play all zone."

The ONLY place I have ever heard of that as a concept is on this board and even then it's a select few that seem to want it to be true.

Over the past few years, we have lost out on recruiting targets that have actively mentioned on twitter or in interviews that they don't want to play zone. That is a fact. Off the top of my head I know both Nick Richards and Jahvon Quinerly publicly stated that they didn't want to play zone as a primary defense.

I also know from talking to a member of the SU coaching staff that an early vetting point in determining how hard they are going to go after a kid is to get a feel for whether the kid is OK with playing zone. After the Harris/Flynn situation where neither wanted to play zone as the primary defense, the staff needs to know that the kids they bring in are committed to the SU system. It's not a good locker room if there is active dissent with respect to the system JB implements.

So YES, we recruit for the zone and YES there are kids out there that don't want to play it.

 

[SoBeCuse]

You wrote, "Then again many of the McD types probably don’t want to play all zone."

The ONLY place I have ever heard of that as a concept is on this board and even then it's a select few that seem to want it to be true.

It’s a theory. You believe what you want. I’ll believe what I want. We can both be in our potential fantasy lands. Deal? All I want is to look competitive against good teams. To look like we know what the hell we’re doing on offense. Have players who can dribble enough and pass. The basics. The zone itself will give us some wins because of some opposing teams’ ineptitude and poor shooting. I haven’t gotten into PG woes/mishaps/misses and that position not being solidified post-Ennis which could have changed things significantly since it is paramount in college basketball.

 

[OttoMets]

Over the past few years, we have lost out on recruiting targets that have actively mentioned on twitter or in interviews that they don't want to play zone. That is a fact. Off the top of my head I know both Nick Richards and Jahvon Quinerly publicly stated that they didn't want to play zone as a primary defense.

I also know from talking to a member of the SU coaching staff that an early vetting point in determining how hard they are going to go after a kid is to get a feel for whether the kid is OK with playing zone. After the Harris/Flynn situation where neither wanted to play zone as the primary defense, the staff needs to know that the kids they bring in are committed to the SU system. It's not a good locker room if there is active dissent with respect to the system JB implements.

So YES, we recruit for the zone and YES there are kids out there that don't want to play it.

 

[SoBeCuse]

True enough, except their big man has to sit thanks to the NCAA.

Good news. Didn’t know that. Thx.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Or is your job to point out the issues and have someone else solve them?

I'll take that job if it's still open.

Of course we want to talk about how the players look.
But did we learn anything from last season?
There were some raves and even the coach said some uncharacteristically positive things last year.
Then - until sometime in January - the team was awful...the worst stretch of basketball in the Boeheim era.
That poor start cost the Orange an NCAA bid.

Now we have a similar situation...with only 3 guys who have played together in a regular season Orange game.
It takes time to jell (even if the coach doesn't like that term).
Is there really any basis for drawing any conclusion except a big question mark?

 

[Townie72]

I'll take that job if it's still open.

Of course we want to talk about how the players look.
But did we learn anything from last season?
There were some raves and even the coach said some uncharacteristically positive things last year.
Then - until sometime in January - the team was awful...the worst stretch of basketball in the Boeheim era.
That poor start cost the Orange an NCAA bid.

Now we have a similar situation...with only 3 guys who have played together in a regular season Orange game.
It takes time to jell (even if the coach doesn't like that term).
Is there really any basis for drawing any conclusion except a big question mark?

Your point about what happened last year --- some players that looked very good in practice but it was a team that wasn't so good at least defensively --- is just what I'm talking about.

In two exhibition games we have seen some very good moves and guys that look like they are very good players. But how that translates into a team playing an ACC team on the road is yet to be determined.

And, unfortunately, that job where you think great thoughts and strategies and let others try to implement them is already taken in many, many US Corporations. I have seen in many, many times.

 

[Townie72]

Over the past few years, we have lost out on recruiting targets that have actively mentioned on twitter or in interviews that they don't want to play zone. That is a fact. Off the top of my head I know both Nick Richards and Jahvon Quinerly publicly stated that they didn't want to play zone as a primary defense.

I also know from talking to a member of the SU coaching staff that an early vetting point in determining how hard they are going to go after a kid is to get a feel for whether the kid is OK with playing zone. After the Harris/Flynn situation where neither wanted to play zone as the primary defense, the staff needs to know that the kids they bring in are committed to the SU system. It's not a good locker room if there is active dissent with respect to the system JB implements.

So YES, we recruit for the zone and YES there are kids out there that don't want to play it.

Dissatisfaction with the zone is also a poisonous thing in the fan base. These are people rooting for the wrong team.

 

[Oráiste]

You're making it sound like some of those things weren't of Frank's own doing. Not his fault that he got hurt, but the behavioral issues are entirely his own. Is he suddenly a team leader? Extremely skeptical on that.

And let's not have short memories. Frank played pretty well against non-conference cupcakes last year, and wilted quickly against tougher opposition. I'm not ready to celebrate his stronger second half against Division 2 Southern Connecticut.

I know it was of his own doing, but that is immaterial to my point, which is that he's rounding back into form from a period of inactivity and we need to wait a few games to pass judgements on him.

Of course, it is clear that many posters are harboring a grudge against Frank because of last season and are not going to let it go even if he has a decent season.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Dissatisfaction with the zone is also a poisonous thing in the fan base. These are people rooting for the wrong team.

Wow. Reading comprehension was never your strong suit, I presume.

 

[Townie72]

Wow. Reading comprehension was never your strong suit, I presume.

Do you know which post this was in response to?

It wasn't yours.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Do you know which post this was in response to?

It wasn't yours.

You remind me of RutgersAl for some reason.

 

[cuseguy]

This team may very well become a tough out midway through the season. But if we have any postseason hopes, there can’t be many missteps before conference play. That’s the tricky part.

 

[Townie72]

You remind me of RutgersAl for some reason.

j
Do you know what Ad Hominem means?

 

[MSOrange]

This team may very well become a tough out midway through the season. But if we have any postseason hopes, there can’t be many missteps before conference play. That’s the tricky part.

Agree and the thing is I don't expect to beat Kansas or Maryland so it would be nice if we could get it done against both Georgetown and UConn this season. In my iggy's prediction, I had those as a split.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Using Quinerly as an example of a guy we missed cause he didn’t want to play zone is dumb.


$$$$$$$$

Kid might never set forth on an NCAA court.

 

[SoBristol]

Your point about what happened last year --- some players that looked very good in practice but it was a team that wasn't so good at least defensively --- is just what I'm talking about.

In two exhibition games we have seen some very good moves and guys that look like they are very good players. But how that translates into a team playing an ACC team on the road is yet to be determined.

...

I am puzzled about last year's bullish projections -- did the players actually look that good in practice in the line-up and roles that we tried early in the season? Were Chukwu's limitations not apparent? Did Lydon show SF moves in practice, or guard the wing well? Was it not clear that White was merely adequate on defense, and rather slow if playing the top of the zone? Did Howard not commit turnovers in practice, or pick up his dribble 30 ft out? Did Thompson defend well in practices?

 

[SoBeCuse]

I am puzzled about last year's bullish projections -- did the players actually look that good in practice in the line-up and roles that we tried early in the season? Were Chukwu's limitations not apparent? Did Lydon show SF moves in practice, or guard the wing well? Was it not clear that White was merely adequate on defense, and rather slow if playing the top of the zone? Did Howard not commit turnovers in practice, or pick up his dribble 30 ft out? Did Thompson defend well in practices?

I’ve wondered that also. I think Boeheim in an interview in the offseason (maybe in Albany or the immediate botched post-Hopkins presser with Wildhack) said that he regretfully made that comment but that through practices early on before some real games started he knew quickly that his comment would be void. Something like that. Not positive but pretty sure.