my two cents

[kcsu]

Let's hope that yesterday's game was a combination of SU being way off and LM being a much better team than anyone imagined.

I thought that Red coached a horrible game. His substitutions made little to no sense to me. Not using the big guy in a zone for part of the game, Choppa getting 2 minutes after lighting it up last game especially with our 3-point shooting issues. Taylor getting 12 minutes when he looked like a rec player. Cuffe getting less than a minute and so on and so on. No rhythm to anything last night. In addition, Red needs to realize that he is their Head Coach. Not a cheerleader, Not the healer for JB, and not a Den Mother. The ing head coach of SU and as such he needs to light a fire under their arses when they play light a bunch of zombies. If not for Davis and JJ showing some hustle we lose this game.
I don't want to get into individual players as I have very little good to say. I will say that I believe this team's best D might be the zone. Because if JJ and Carlos play D like this against real teams we will get destroyed. It was Rec league horrible. I've been watching since Roy's Runts and last night was one of the worst performances i can remember from both Coach and team. God awful. I'm a huge Red fan but if he doesn't wake up and coach these guys hard, make them play with a passion I would be for a change.

 

[dasher]

Let's hope that yesterday's game was a combination of SU being way off and LM being a much better team than anyone imagined.

I thought that Red coached a horrible game. His substitutions made little to no sense to me. Not using the big guy in a zone for part of the game, Choppa getting 2 minutes after lighting it up last game especially with our 3-point shooting issues. Taylor getting 12 minutes when he looked like a rec player. Cuffe getting less than a minute and so on and so on. No rhythm to anything last night. In addition, Red needs to realize that he is their Head Coach. Not a cheerleader, Not the healer for JB, and not a Den Mother. The ing head coach of SU and as such he needs to light a fire under their arses when they play light a bunch of zombies. If not for Davis and JJ showing some hustle we lose this game.
I don't want to get into individual players as I have very little good to say. I will say that I believe this team's best D might be the zone. Because if JJ and Carlos play D like this against real teams we will get destroyed. It was Rec league horrible. I've been watching since Roy's Runts and last night was one of the worst performances i can remember from both Coach and team. God awful. I'm a huge Red fan but if he doesn't wake up and coach these guys hard, make them play with a passion I would be for a change.

Boy, do I wish I could disagree with any of this. But I can't. I will add that this is my first time I have watched this team this year. And I felt lied to watching yesterday. I can't imagine that we could have looked worse.

 

[kcsu]

Boy, do I wish I could disagree with any of this. But I can't. I will add that this is my first time I have watched this team this year. And I felt lied to watching yesterday. I can't imagine that we could have looked worse.

Dasher, I'm stunned. I don't have the contacts that you do but I do stay close to both programs and i was completely blown away last night. Hopefully it's a one off. My biggest disappointment is with Red. He coached a horrible game. Not sure where his head was at, but he was terrible. It's almost like he was treating this like another scrimmage. Talent wise we are middle of the ACC at best. I just don't see us competing against the top of the league unless something and or someone really steps up.

 

[dasher]

Dasher, I'm stunned. I don't have the contacts that you do but I do stay close to both programs and i was completely blown away last night. Hopefully it's a one off. My biggest disappointment is with Red. He coached a horrible game. Not sure where his head was at, but he was terrible. It's almost like he was treating this like another scrimmage. Talent wise we are middle of the ACC at best. I just don't see us competing against the top of the league unless something and or someone really steps up.

We had three guys out there at a min that couldn't stay in front of their man. And this was against LeMoyne.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Last night is part of why I roll my eyes when media or coaches complain about schools scheduling cupcakes to game the NET. It’s hard to consistently beat bad teams by a lot!

 

[DCUNITED13]

Dasher, this game was like our 2nd scrimmage. It was the worst defense since I started watching SU. 44 Years. We defended the 3 point shot but allowed the easy drive to the rim and we could not hit our 3 point shot. We are projected 11th in the ACC and after this game that may be a stretch. Could be a bad result, however, our Offense underperformed. Not sure if our Defense is fixable. Maybe Mobile Shooting Centers are our Kryptonite. (just like scrambling QB's against our FB team)

 

[capeorange]

Boy, do I wish I could disagree with any of this. But I can't. I will add that this is my first time I have watched this team this year. And I felt lied to watching yesterday. I can't imagine that we could have looked worse.

Maybe you weren't misled. Seems possible that they just can't evaluate talent and they believe what they told you. In either case it's a problem.

 

[billsin01]

Let's hope that yesterday's game was a combination of SU being way off and LM being a much better team than anyone imagined.

I thought that Red coached a horrible game. His substitutions made little to no sense to me. Not using the big guy in a zone for part of the game, Choppa getting 2 minutes after lighting it up last game especially with our 3-point shooting issues. Taylor getting 12 minutes when he looked like a rec player. Cuffe getting less than a minute and so on and so on. No rhythm to anything last night. In addition, Red needs to realize that he is their Head Coach. Not a cheerleader, Not the healer for JB, and not a Den Mother. The ing head coach of SU and as such he needs to light a fire under their arses when they play light a bunch of zombies. If not for Davis and JJ showing some hustle we lose this game.
I don't want to get into individual players as I have very little good to say. I will say that I believe this team's best D might be the zone. Because if JJ and Carlos play D like this against real teams we will get destroyed. It was Rec league horrible. I've been watching since Roy's Runts and last night was one of the worst performances i can remember from both Coach and team. God awful. I'm a huge Red fan but if he doesn't wake up and coach these guys hard, make them play with a passion I would be for a change.

The only point I'll quibble with here is that -- to my eyes -- Carlos and JJ were the least of our problems defensively.

What I mean by that is two things:

1) Freeman, Lampkin and even Davis really struggled in terms of knowing what to do when the guys they were guarding were setting screens (and LeMoyne had players moving all over, all night with multiple screens set on every single possession). Bell's guy was mostly coming around screens and Bell did a reasonable job of staying with him. Not great, not brutal. What's more, there were many times where Lampkin and Freeman effectively were an additional screen as they held up a teammate trying to navigate the traffic.

2) We have no guiding philosophy on defense behind 'pressure the guy with the ball'. Admittedly, if you have two outstanding defensive guards, that would really help. I'm not sure we do. But when your defense is so rudimentary, teams freely run their sets and it's going to lead to good shots. We disrupt nothing and you almost never see a syracuse player help a teammate by bumping a cutter, or moving a screener or anticipating a drive before it happens showing before the drive even starts. We just wait for the opponent to do whatever and then either react or, in far too many cases, not react at all.

The best example of this is the two brush screens, as Devo was referring to them, at the end of the game where LeMoyne got called for moving screens. The calls were correct and they hurt as it was at a crucial time in the game. But LeMoyne had been running those all night. So you are guarding your guy and you think he's cutting to the ball, so you are hustling to follow him ... only he ends up just basically getting in the way of the defender a bit -- not a true screen, just something that appears to almost be incidental contact. All it really does is give the offensive player a step and an angle. This isn't the end of the world normally, except in this case the closest help defender is chasing his man in the wrong direction to help and, of course, we have no help coming from anywhere else. The result is often a layup or a good look at the basket.

My point is -- that really isn't breakdown by either defender specifically -- it's something you need to practice and be prepared for and have a philosophy about as a head coach. Instead, we just generally continue to watch it happen.

 

[kcsu]

D is so much about effort. You need to be a dog to play good D. JJ and Carlos have the talent to do it but do they have the Want to? and is Red the coach to push guys or is he more of a coddler? What i see is a team that has enough talent to compete and hang against most teams but only if they play extremely hard and play smart. They do not have enough Talent to beat ACC teams on Talent alone. It has to be a combination of talent and grit, hustle, desire. Last night they looked like a bunch of kids mailing it in. No hustle no passion no desire and Red did nothing to change that. Basically, the kids put out the same energy they got from the staff which was pathetic. Listen to his post-game which about made me sick. Seriously he sounded like a counselor vs a coach. Not good.

 

[Newhouser]

Our entire starting 5 is horrible on the defensive end (or was last night). Sample size shows that JJ and Bell are never going to be good on that end. Freeman just looks lost. Carlos may have been all D in the CAA but he was toast last night.

That said I put most of this game on Red. We need quicker hooks (especially in these games). Anyone not being aggressive or giving max effort...sits. Moore should have gotten run.

we need a backup PG for when Carlos struggles as JJ is not it.

 

[Sbucketball]

If you took off the uniforms and Davis didn't play, you would have thought this was a tune-up game for Lemoyne.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Boy, do I wish I could disagree with any of this. But I can't. I will add that this is my first time I have watched this team this year. And I felt lied to watching yesterday. I can't imagine that we could have looked worse.

Same here. I didn't watch either exhibition game and last night was my first look. Not a good one, but I wasn't surprised honestly that it was close. I did think we eventually would have pulled away sooner but it just didn't happen.

 

[orangecuse]

Let's hope that yesterday's game was a combination of SU being way off and LM being a much better team than anyone imagined.

I thought that Red coached a horrible game. His substitutions made little to no sense to me. Not using the big guy in a zone for part of the game, Choppa getting 2 minutes after lighting it up last game especially with our 3-point shooting issues. Taylor getting 12 minutes when he looked like a rec player. Cuffe getting less than a minute and so on and so on. No rhythm to anything last night. In addition, Red needs to realize that he is their Head Coach. Not a cheerleader, Not the healer for JB, and not a Den Mother. The ing head coach of SU and as such he needs to light a fire under their arses when they play light a bunch of zombies. If not for Davis and JJ showing some hustle we lose this game.
I don't want to get into individual players as I have very little good to say. I will say that I believe this team's best D might be the zone. Because if JJ and Carlos play D like this against real teams we will get destroyed. It was Rec league horrible. I've been watching since Roy's Runts and last night was one of the worst performances i can remember from both Coach and team. God awful. I'm a huge Red fan but if he doesn't wake up and coach these guys hard, make them play with a passion I would be for a change.

Well, at least Red can, according to Matt Park's remarks during an SU t/o in a one possession game about the 6 minute mark of the second half, "draw up a play with the best of the them." So, we got that going for us.

 

[phil77]

On offense, I thought they were OK. I would like to see a lot less of Carlos and Taylor but I think everyone else did a passable job. The biggest question on offense is whether we are a bad shooting team or will our percentages come up from deep.

Defense is an entirely different story. They all look lost on defense, and they all can't stay in front of their man. Nobody who played last night played good defense outside of a couple of random plays by individuals. They have no concept about team defense. They don't know how to help from the weakside. They don't know how to rotate. Help and recover isnt there at all. IMO, that is all coaching. Our kids looked like they had zero concept of team defense, which is frightening.

Whatever that was last night is unacceptable. Will we play better against the next cupcake I imagine so but this team has lost me until they prove it against someone with equal talent.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Who’s shooting threes is also important. Just because you’re open doesn’t mean you should shoot. Petar and Davis should not be shooting threes. I don’t care if they‘re open. Red keeps saying their three point shooting is getting better. That’s not good enough.There’s a reason they’re open. Our offense needs to work inside out and not east to west. This team can’t just go out and pressure the ball. They don‘t have the skills or desire to do it. Play the ball tough and everyone else should be in help position. We’re giving up too much space between the ball. Our gaps are bad. Eddie should not be playing defense outside of 15 feet. You’re just asking for him to get beat or pick up ticky tack fouls. We need Eddie on the offensive end. One of my pet peaves is watching a corner three point shot being attempted and our opposite corner guy just stands there. They don’t go to the offensive glass or get back on defense. Bell just runs to his corner and is oblivious to anything else happening on the court. When closing out on defense you need to have a system in place. Take away their strong hand and where do you want to force the ball with help waiting? I see no plan. Do we force baseline? Do we force middle? Do we go above screens, switch on the perimeter, hedge and recover, or trap? I see no plan. I’d love to see a practice to see what our plan is. Whatever it is it’s not working or do we not have a plan. That’s even scarier.

 

[JRHEETER]

Felt we were vastly out coached last night and a serious red flag has gone up

 

[Norman Dale]

The only point I'll quibble with here is that -- to my eyes -- Carlos and JJ were the least of our problems defensively.

What I mean by that is two things:

1) Freeman, Lampkin and even Davis really struggled in terms of knowing what to do when the guys they were guarding were setting screens (and LeMoyne had players moving all over, all night with multiple screens set on every single possession). Bell's guy was mostly coming around screens and Bell did a reasonable job of staying with him. Not great, not brutal. What's more, there were many times where Lampkin and Freeman effectively were an additional screen as they held up a teammate trying to navigate the traffic.

2) We have no guiding philosophy on defense behind 'pressure the guy with the ball'. Admittedly, if you have two outstanding defensive guards, that would really help. I'm not sure we do. But when your defense is so rudimentary, teams freely run their sets and it's going to lead to good shots. We disrupt nothing and you almost never see a syracuse player help a teammate by bumping a cutter, or moving a screener or anticipating a drive before it happens showing before the drive even starts. We just wait for the opponent to do whatever and then either react or, in far too many cases, not react at all.

The best example of this is the two brush screens, as Devo was referring to them, at the end of the game where LeMoyne got called for moving screens. The calls were correct and they hurt as it was at a crucial time in the game. But LeMoyne had been running those all night. So you are guarding your guy and you think he's cutting to the ball, so you are hustling to follow him ... only he ends up just basically getting in the way of the defender a bit -- not a true screen, just something that appears to almost be incidental contact. All it really does is give the offensive player a step and an angle. This isn't the end of the world normally, except in this case the closest help defender is chasing his man in the wrong direction to help and, of course, we have no help coming from anywhere else. The result is often a layup or a good look at the basket.

My point is -- that really isn't breakdown by either defender specifically -- it's something you need to practice and be prepared for and have a philosophy about as a head coach. Instead, we just generally continue to watch it happen.

Very good analysis. Devo has been the canary in the coal mine warning us of how bad they are on defense right from the first exhibition game.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The only point I'll quibble with here is that -- to my eyes -- Carlos and JJ were the least of our problems defensively.

What I mean by that is two things:

1) Freeman, Lampkin and even Davis really struggled in terms of knowing what to do when the guys they were guarding were setting screens (and LeMoyne had players moving all over, all night with multiple screens set on every single possession). Bell's guy was mostly coming around screens and Bell did a reasonable job of staying with him. Not great, not brutal. What's more, there were many times where Lampkin and Freeman effectively were an additional screen as they held up a teammate trying to navigate the traffic.

2) We have no guiding philosophy on defense behind 'pressure the guy with the ball'. Admittedly, if you have two outstanding defensive guards, that would really help. I'm not sure we do. But when your defense is so rudimentary, teams freely run their sets and it's going to lead to good shots. We disrupt nothing and you almost never see a syracuse player help a teammate by bumping a cutter, or moving a screener or anticipating a drive before it happens showing before the drive even starts. We just wait for the opponent to do whatever and then either react or, in far too many cases, not react at all.

The best example of this is the two brush screens, as Devo was referring to them, at the end of the game where LeMoyne got called for moving screens. The calls were correct and they hurt as it was at a crucial time in the game. But LeMoyne had been running those all night. So you are guarding your guy and you think he's cutting to the ball, so you are hustling to follow him ... only he ends up just basically getting in the way of the defender a bit -- not a true screen, just something that appears to almost be incidental contact. All it really does is give the offensive player a step and an angle. This isn't the end of the world normally, except in this case the closest help defender is chasing his man in the wrong direction to help and, of course, we have no help coming from anywhere else. The result is often a layup or a good look at the basket.

My point is -- that really isn't breakdown by either defender specifically -- it's something you need to practice and be prepared for and have a philosophy about as a head coach. Instead, we just generally continue to watch it happen.

Yeah, our defensive system or concept or whatever you want to call it doesn't seem to include help defense at the rim, which is... a choice, I guess.

 

[Owens guy]

Didn't we hire an assistant to teach better defense?

I don't want to watch another Syracuse team forced to play zone defense because they can't play man.

 

[SWC75]

Yeah, our defensive system or concept or whatever you want to call it doesn't seem to include help defense at the rim, which is... a choice, I guess.

Is it easier to get help in a zone than in man? If you have to follow your guy wherever he goes, I would think that would make it harder.

 

[007]

Yeah, our defensive system or concept or whatever you want to call it doesn't seem to include help defense at the rim, which is... a choice, I guess.

You can take this much to the bank, there is no M2M defense that does not teach help rotations on dribble penetration and, most especially, dribble penetration that gets to the rim. In fact, there should be more than 1 guy rotating to attack dribble penetration at the rim. Help defenders should be rotating to cover the man the first helper left to stop dribble penetration in the lane.

It is an entire team concept, all 5 guys should be moving to provide help or to help the helper. Just about every coach from JVs on up teaches it this way. It's drilled, or should be, until it becomes instinctual for players. I'm positive that Red and staff are teaching this way. Which means that you have to look at coaching accountability, court awareness (you have to see or anticipate this stuff coming), execution, individual player reaction times, conditioning, and/or effort.

This is not a "concept" issue.

 

[kcsu]

You can take this much to the bank, there is no M2M defense that does not teach help rotations on dribble penetration and, most especially, dribble penetration that gets to the rim. In fact, there should be more than 1 guy rotating to attack dribble penetration at the rim. Help defenders should be rotating to cover the man the first helper left to stop dribble penetration in the lane.

It is an entire team concept, all 5 guys should be moving to provide help or to help the helper. Just about every coach from JVs on up teaches it this way. It's drilled, or should be, until it becomes instinctual for players. I'm positive that Red and staff are teaching this way. Which means that you have to look at coaching accountability, court awareness (you have to see or anticipate this stuff coming), execution, individual player reaction times, conditioning, and/or effort.

This is not a "concept" issue.

Agreed. Its a coaching issue. Guys dont do what they are coached need to sit.

 

[007]

Agreed. Its a coaching issue. Guys dont do what they are coached need to sit.

Yeah, I hear you. I'm a little reluctant to pin this unilaterally on coaching at this point. I suspect there are a few players that lack court awareness and reaction time. There are clearly lapses in concentration from others. I would guess that Red is trading offense for defense in some rotation decisions as the best chance at winning kind of thing. But...

I hope we get progressively better at team defense. The former coach in me wonders why, with this kind of depth, Red is not pressing or at least trapping more in half court. We have to do more to disrupt half court sets. Otherwise, well coached teams will consistently execute their offense. The hard hedging is a precursor to doubling on ball screens. That would be a start. But, playing that way will put a lot more emphasis of help rotations.