my two cents

[CuseOnly]

Actually, there have been similar developments when comparing Marrone and Shafer.

After year one Marrone got rid of Rob Spence.

And after a little bit more than one year, Shafer got rid of McDonald.

I don't believe that Scott Shafer sacrificed his HC career to take care of some friends.

I don't think that his intent was to sacrifice his HC career by getting the band back together but it appears that could be the case.

I love Shafer and think he should be retained at least through next year, not so much with a few of the assistants.

 

[BlackKnight76]

Actually, there have been similar developments when comparing Marrone and Shafer. After year one Marrone got rid of Rob Spence. And after a little bit more than one year, Shafer got rid of McDonald. I don't believe that Scott Shafer sacrificed his HC career to take care of some friends.

The fact that we were "supposed" to lose to a bottom half AAC team and one of the three worst ACC teams for like 5 years now is an issue.

 

[Scooch]

The Marrone staff and the Shafer staff are really quite different. Shafer was a holdover but his administration was a distinct change in many ways. Again four HCs in ten years is not the kind of stability that brings long term success.

The 4 coaches in 10 years thing is totally without context. Robinson got 4 years, which was more than enough time to realize he was generally incompetent. Marrone left after 4 years and was replaced by a coordinator for the express purpose of maintaining continuity.

Our problem has been hiring lousy-to-mediocre coaches in 2 of our last 3 attempts.

 

[Millhouse]

The fact that we were "supposed" to lose to a bottom half AAC team and one of the three worst ACC teams for like 5 years now is an issue.

we were supposed to be a team that fires its coach.

 

[OrangePA]

The 4 coaches in 10 years thing is totally without context. Robinson got 4 years, which was more than enough time to realize he was generally incompetent. Marrone left after 4 years and was replaced by a coordinator for the express purpose of maintaining continuity.

Our problem has been hiring lousy-to-mediocre coaches in 2 of our last 3 attempts.

I don't think that's correct.

The problem has been money and talent.

And both problems are now being addressed - finally.

 

[OrangePA]

we were supposed to be a team that fires its coach.

"Fire the coach" is the answer when the team loses.

That's the reality.

But I think in this case there is much more to the picture and I think a surprising number of fans recognize that.

 

[Crusty]

I don't think that's correct.

The problem has been money and talent.

And both problems are now being addressed - finally.

Agreed those were the top two issues because they relate to the talent coaches can recruit.

 

[Scooch]

I don't think that's correct.

The problem has been money and talent.

And both problems are now being addressed - finally.

I don't disagree that facilities and recruiting are vitally important.

Are you suggesting that Greg Robinson would have been an adequate coach had those each been improved?

 

[OrangePA]

I don't disagree that facilities and recruiting are vitally important.

Are you suggesting that Greg Robinson would have been an adequate coach had those each been improved?

I'm not sure.

I'm not in the camp that Greg Robinson was incompetent. He had too much success at UCLA, the Broncos and the Jets to be inept.

What happened when he was here involved a lot of factors that led to what we saw.

Those issues no longer exist. I'm confident that Shafer can win and that he can win sooner rather than latter.

 

[Millhouse]

"Fire the coach" is the answer when the team loses.

That's the reality.

But I think in this case there is much more to the picture and I think a surprising number of fans recognize that.

my point is that expecting something bad is different than accepting something bad

 

[leftytg]

I'm not sure.

I'm not in the camp that Greg Robinson was incompetent. He had too much success at UCLA, the Broncos and the Jets to be inept.

What happened when he was here there were a lot of factors that led to what we saw.

Those issues no longer exist. I'm confident that Shafer can win and that he can win sooner rather than latter.

whoa...that must be a very very very lonely camp, like one of those "find yourself " Australian walkabout journey camps.

 

[elimunelson]

I'm not sure.

I'm not in the camp that Greg Robinson was incompetent. He had too much success at UCLA, the Broncos and the Jets to be inept.

What happened when he was here involved a lot of factors that led to what we saw.

Those issues no longer exist. I'm confident that Shafer can win and that he can win sooner rather than latter.

BRING BACK GREG ROBINSON. It can by marketed as "Time to Finish What He Started!"

W facilities in place i have no doubt he'd win 4-5 games this time around.

PA, i enjoy your posts but to say that we were supposed to lose all these games this year sets us up next year for the same stawman argument. If we finish 3-9, we will be expected to lose all those same games next year. If we stink, the excuses stink too. We kinda stink right now. How to fix it is the difficult question.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I'm not sure.

I'm not in the camp that Greg Robinson was incompetent. He had too much success at UCLA, the Broncos and the Jets to be inept.

What happened when he was here involved a lot of factors that led to what we saw.

Those issues no longer exist. I'm confident that Shafer can win and that he can win sooner rather than latter.

Using your logic no coach would ever be fired for reasons other than off field issues. You are just posting to be contradictory at this point which I understand

 

[kcsu]

I'm not sure.

I'm not in the camp that Greg Robinson was incompetent. He had too much success at UCLA, the Broncos and the Jets to be inept.

What happened when he was here involved a lot of factors that led to what we saw.

Those issues no longer exist. I'm confident that Shafer can win and that he can win sooner rather than latter.

Orange he didnt have success with KC that is for sure. I knew Dick

BRING BACK GREG ROBINSON. It can by marketed as "Time to Finish What He Started!"

W facilities in place i have no doubt he'd win 4-5 games this time around.

PA, i enjoy your posts but to say that we were supposed to lose all these games this year sets us up next year for the same stawman argument. If we finish 3-9, we will be expected to lose all those same games next year. If we stink, the excuses stink too. We kinda stink right now. How to fix it is the difficult question.

My point and i believe PA and others isnt so much that we are in love with HCSS or that we think he is the long term solution rather it is about the program and the timing of making a change. I believe that for the programs sake, not HCSS sake that we need to retain our current coach one more year. We have too many young players to pull the plug on a coach after only three years. If however HCSS and his staff do not make marked improvement next year. My take is 7-5 minimum win loss and as importantly show that they as a staff are improving in game planning, game management, and player development then Coyle should make a change.

 

[Millhouse]

 

[RF2044]

Deciding when to cut bait is always an agonizing decision. I think there are good arguments on both side of this coin.

At the end of the day, we all want the same thing - a successful program on and off the field. And I have lost all confidence in Shafer's ability to do that.

If it's a talent thing, quality of citizen thing, etc, you can show tangible improvement in those areas, i.e. Grades, recruiting rankings, community service performed, etc. These things aren't really our issue. Yes, recruiting could be improved, but I still think our current recruiting is good enough to get us in that 6-8 win range each season.

Our issue is game day performance of our HC and coach decision making. And 3 years in, you would expect those things to no longer be problems, because those things typically are improved with experience when it is just an experience issue. We haven't seen that, and if anything, we've seen a regression in quality of decision making from the 2013 season to now.

Which leads me to believe that the game day performance and decision making of Shafer is more a systemic problem. I have no confidence at this point in his ability to improve on this critical area. And this is an area that DECIDES games. I truly believe that even if this program is back humming, we will still encounter 2-4 games a year that will be close games, and will be games where decision making of the HC will have an enormous impact on the outcome of the game (think Pitt instead of URI, URI, we could have had a monkey on the sideline picking plays and still won.)

There has to be a guy out there that brings the qualities that Shafer brings to the program, and believe me, I appreciate those, while also having the ability to make good decisions in games. I truly value his commitment to good citizens, academics, the improvement in recruiting, and the conditioning and prep of our players. But we will never be successful on the field, where it really matters, where dollars are earned for the program, with decisions like we've seen over the past 3-4 weeks.

Great post, Tep. I feel the same way--across the board. Shafer is maybe best case scenario in just about every way OFF of the field. But on game day, he is a liability, and has been since day 1. It sucks, but it is what it is. Like you, I don't see the capability for improvement in that area.

 

[elimunelson]

In 2012, Athlon Sports named Robinson as the sixth worst college football head coach of the last 50 years.[6]

 

[TheCusian]

Deciding when to cut bait is always an agonizing decision. I think there are good arguments on both side of this coin. At the end of the day, we all want the same thing - a successful program on and off the field. And I have lost all confidence in Shafer's ability to do that. If it's a talent thing, quality of citizen thing, etc, you can show tangible improvement in those areas, i.e. Grades, recruiting rankings, community service performed, etc. These things aren't really our issue. Yes, recruiting could be improved, but I still think our current recruiting is good enough to get us in that 6-8 win range each season. Our issue is game day performance of our HC and coach decision making. And 3 years in, you would expect those things to no longer be problems, because those things typically are improved with experience when it is just an experience issue. We haven't seen that, and if anything, we've seen a regression in quality of decision making from the 2013 season to now. Which leads me to believe that the game day performance and decision making of Shafer is more a systemic problem. I have no confidence at this point in his ability to improve on this critical area. And this is an area that DECIDES games. I truly believe that even if this program is back humming, we will still encounter 2-4 games a year that will be close games, and will be games where decision making of the HC will have an enormous impact on the outcome of the game (think Pitt instead of URI, URI, we could have had a monkey on the sideline picking plays and still won.) There has to be a guy out there that brings the qualities that Shafer brings to the program, and believe me, I appreciate those, while also having the ability to make good decisions in games. I truly value his commitment to good citizens, academics, the improvement in recruiting, and the conditioning and prep of our players. But we will never be successful on the field, where it really matters, where dollars are earned for the program, with decisions like we've seen over the past 3-4 weeks.

This is where I'm heading.

Great take.

 

[TheCusian]

Shafer has been here since 2009. That's 6.5 seasons as either the DC or HC. One of the reasons given for making him the HC was to ensure continuity. So, I guess it would depend on how one defines "very little stability."

As I've said repeatedly - he has brought stability in our decent/good defense and our poor/mediocre offense. It's been about the same for 7 years (2012 was a breakout offensive year and this year appears to be a rare slip defensively).

What is trending down is in-game decisions.

But I don't think stability is getting it done. We need new.

Side note: where I don't want to go back is in the type of kid we recruit, grades, off-field stuff, etc. Marrone did a decent job and Shafer has done a nice job in that area.

 

[LAOrange]

Shafer's a smart guy. His crisis management is a not where it needs to be, but he'll get there. I see a young team with great upside. I see great recruiting (getting kids to come to Syracuse is a major endeavor). I'm nothing but impressed by the public personalities on this team. Dungey, Franklin, Ishmael, Trudo, Fredericks - smart kids who present as solid citizens. I can't help but feel unlucky though. The penalties, the bad kicks, the injuries all seem to plague us. FSU was a better team by twice but who can negate the fact that they got away with favorable rulings from blind refs. I'm not discounting that the end of the half was horrible but we had two obvious, momentum killing, pass interference calls ignored.

 

[SWC75]

Shafer's a smart guy. His crisis management is a not where it needs to be, but he'll get there. I see a young team with great upside. I see great recruiting (getting kids to come to Syracuse is a major endeavor). I'm nothing but impressed by the public personalities on this team. Dungey, Franklin, Ishmael, Trudo, Fredericks - smart kids who present as solid citizens. I can't help but feel unlucky though. The penalties, the bad kicks, the injuries all seem to plague us. FSU was a better team by twice but who can negate the fact that they got away with favorable rulings from blind refs. I'm not discounting that the end of the half was horrible but we had two obvious, momentum killing, pass interference calls ignored.

What people don't get is that criticizing a coach and wanting him fired are two separate things. The next guy will have things we'll complain about, too and the same people will want him fired. This is a tremendously young team. That means 1) the recruiting had fallen off before this group; 2) it's picked up considerably, since we are seeing talents we haven't seen in a while and 3) we have a chance to be really good in a year or two. And if we are, we won't want to fire the coach. I'd like to see if that happens before deciding to fire the entire staff, (which is what you'd be doing) because we don't like pooch kicks.