Nate Oats vs. Coach Hop Thread

[RF2044]

Sorry but I respectfully disagree. There is no one more qualified than JAB to pick the next coach. And if you honestly think it goes down any other way then I don’t know what to tell you

Happy to disagree over this. JB is not an athletic director. He had a chance to have a say in who his successor was, but that candidate left - and is subsequently flaming out, so we're probably lucky to have not hired him. And when he attempted to set up a second succession arrangement, it was politely declined.

If the objective is to have continuity with the current status quo, which would include double digit loss seasons every year, flawed systems on both sides of the ball, and a far less qualified coach than JB at the helm, then by all means -- limit the pool only to internal candidates.

But if the objective is to get back to being a perennial top 25 program where we belong, then due diligence is what's needed, and what will happen.

 

[supp]

Bama has more money than God but I think they would spend it on some trivial thing for football before basketball. However for the right reason they would throw it at Oats to keep him. Especially if he is more successful than Auburn.

Yeah. Not sure if the fans and admin there will ever care about bball in the same way as fball. That's a reason to leave in and of itself. But maybe to Kentucky or Kansas rather than the Cuse.

 

[Briancuse]

What makes anyone think that Oats would even be interested in leaving Bama?

Football school.with zero bball history. Where no one cares about bball.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

Start with academics. Much easier to get a prospect into Bama than SU--and keep him eligible after he arrives. Now, with NIL and the misuse of it by some colleges, the monetary advantages available at SEC schools will be tough to overcome.

If Dion, Paul Harris and Kadary made it into cuse, ANYONE can make it.

That excuse is really only at the tier 1 schools ala ND, Vandy, Standford etc (non Ivy I mean)

 

[OrangeinDC]

At this point in time, and up until JB gives up the throne, who is the better fit for Syracuse moving on from the JB era?

We do not need speculation into other HC’s in this thread. This is purely a constructive conversation surrounding the two mentioned HC’s.

Red... Oats may consider this stepping stone job and with success would be looking for a bag somewhere else I fear. I don't see Red coming here and looking to leave IMO.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Happy to disagree over this. JB is not an athletic director. He had a chance to have a say in who his successor was, but that candidate left - and is subsequently flaming out, so we're probably lucky to have not hired him. And when he attempted to set up a second succession arrangement, it was politely declined.

If the objective is to have continuity with the current status quo, which would include double digit loss seasons every year, flawed systems on both sides of the ball, and a far less qualified coach than JB at the helm, then by all means -- limit the pool only to internal candidates.

But if the objective is to get back to being a perennial top 25 program where we belong, then due diligence is what's needed, and what will happen.

I think you sort of need to go outside the program anyways. JB isn't moving and will still be seen around town and likely at the Melo Center. Hes too old to be the AD but hes not going to exactly go on house arrest because hes not still coaching. If his replacement is his hire people are going to act like JB is still coaching the team.

I'm sure the local media will do whatever they can to stick a mic in front of him on a daily basis and get him to say something that will generate clicks.

How many seasons in a row is it since we have played an ACC game as a ranked team 7? The new hire might be happy to keep Gerry or Red on the staff and add 2 of his guys. Move to Syracuse to coach for the guy who replaces Boeheim isn't something you leave a good assistant gig for.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Sorry but I respectfully disagree. There is no one more qualified than JAB to pick the next coach. And if you honestly think it goes down any other way then I don’t know what to tell you

Given that he hand picked Hopkins, and Hopkins has shown that he can’t coach at this level, I would say that the evidence shows that JB can’t pick head coaches very well.

 

[OrangeinDC]

Happy to disagree over this. JB is not an athletic director. He had a chance to have a say in who his successor was, but that candidate left - and is subsequently flaming out, so we're probably lucky to have not hired him. And when he attempted to set up a second succession arrangement, it was politely declined.

If the objective is to have continuity with the current status quo, which would include double digit loss seasons every year, flawed systems on both sides of the ball, and a far less qualified coach than JB at the helm, then by all means -- limit the pool only to internal candidates.

But if the objective is to get back to being a perennial top 25 program where we belong, then due diligence is what's needed, and what will happen.

Good post! I'm torn on this a lil bit.. It's almost like we need a "updated" version of JB . Someone who brings the historical components of the program, but introduces some updated soft skills and adjusted wrinkles/options on what we do. Man and there's layers to it, including type of recruits, playing style and other intangibles... I guess there are pros and cons to either situation...

 

[PauliePeppas]

If Dion, Paul Harris and Kadary made it into cuse, ANYONE can make it.

That excuse is really only at the tier 1 schools ala ND, Vandy, Standford etc (non Ivy I mean)

Fab (Rip) as well

 

[IthacaMatt]

what kinda job you thinking for him after (if) he gets let go from UW?

mid-major head coach? or what?

Well, he's certainly going to be a head coach wherever he goes. If he has to go down to G5, if it's a name program, it wouldn't be a bad move.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Red... Oats may consider this stepping stone job and with success would be looking for a bag somewhere else I fear. I don't see Red coming here and looking to leave IMO.

How do we know that Red is any good as a head coach?
No disrespect intended, but anybody on the current staff is unqualified to replace JB, in my opinion. None of them have run a program before.
Just look what happened on the football side when we replaced a head coach with one of his assistants.

 

[hoopsupstate]

How do we know that Red is any good as a head coach?
No disrespect intended, but anybody on the current staff is unqualified to replace JB, in my opinion. None of them have run a program before.
Just look what happened on the football side when we replaced a head coach with one of his assistants.

Duke and Carolina disagree. Neither of their next in line coaches have head coaching experience.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Duke and Carolina disagree. Neither of their next in line coaches have head coaching experience.

And we don't know anything about either one, yet. I have a few names for you: Matt Doherty. Brian Mahoney, and Kevin Ollie. What do they have in common?

 

[OrangeinDC]

True possibility... We don't know.

The things I mentioned as intangibles included familiarity with recruiting area, relationship with coaches, players having an idea of how you plan on using them with what they know about "Syracuse" hoops. One thing JB and "in family" coaches can do is show them that role in real life. Like I said, there are pros and cons whichever way you go... There's a difference in establishing a relationship as a head coach vice an assistant coach, and I think those relationships mean something especially in todays youth hoops.

Every situation is different. I don't think our brand etc. is garbage so I wouldn't throw it away, JB has built some good Sh**. To be honest, if a player is told that SU is recruiting them, they can immediately picture how they would fit in. What's the best way to build on that without re-creating the wheel with the program?

A 5'8 guard would drive me looney!!!

 

[Bayside44]

And we don't know anything about either one, yet. I have a few names for you: Matt Doherty. Brian Mahoney, and Kevin Ollie. What do they have in common?

Doherty was a good coach at ND, never should've left.

Ollie won a title.

Mahoney had soooo much good will with the Johnnie crowd, Felipe Lopez at the time...but a potential model. The assistant flops then they went out and got a guy in Fran.

Izzo was an assistant to Jud Heathcote.

 

[BillSU]

I like Mike and wished I’d been able to see him coach at Syracuse.
However, if his record keeps dropping I would look at someone else.

Why would Oats want to come north and coach us? His second year at Alabama they are 26-7 and into the sweet sixteen and bet he just keeps on getting better. If we tried to hire him Alabama if they are smart would sign him to a new contract raising his current $3.225 M one through 2007 to something we couldn’t afford.

So, it's been a football school, and now they are beginning to make in-roads in BB, why not keep on going. Promote the hell out of it, Coleman Colesium holds almost 16,000 probably 20,000 SRO with two additional courts for practice and weight and locker rooms and keep on going?

I say we hire our new HC off our bench.

Mike's record at UW so far:

Washington Huskies (Pac-12 Conference) (2017–present)​
2017–18	Washington	21–13	10–8	T–6th	NIT Second Round
2018–19	Washington	27–9	15–3	1st	NCAA Division I Second Round
2019–20	Washington	15–17	5–13	12th
2020–21	Washington	5–21	4–16	11th
2021–22	Washington	4–4
Washington:​	72–62 (.537)	34–39 (.466)
Total:​	76–67 (.531)

But what the hell do I really know like everyone else about who is going to end up as our new HC.

If Jim is going out to play golf at 80, three years from now perhaps there may be someone else whose interest may be piqued by the thought of being the coach under the newly crowned Dome because his position with another team is ending. Someone, though he played here briefly, who doesn't need much of an introduction, has made and lived a tremendous sports career so far and is familiar with Syracuse but might be looking for another basketball position?

 

[IthacaMatt]

True possibility... We don't know.

The things I mentioned as intangibles included familiarity with recruiting area, relationship with coaches, players having an idea of how you plan on using them with what they know about "Syracuse" hoops. One thing JB and "in family" coaches can do is show them that role in real life. Like I said, there are pros and cons whichever way you go... There's a difference in establishing a relationship as a head coach vice an assistant coach, and I think those relationships mean something especially in todays youth hoops.

Every situation is different. I don't think our brand etc. is garbage so I wouldn't throw it away, JB has built some good Sh**. To be honest, if a player is told that SU is recruiting them, they can immediately picture how they would fit in. What's the best way to build on that without re-creating the wheel with the program?

A 5'8 guard would drive me looney!!!

Nice post! Good arguments.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Doherty was a good coach at ND, never should've left.

Ollie won a title.

Mahoney had soooo much good will with the Johnnie crowd, Felipe Lopez at the time...but a potential model. The assistant flops then they went out and got a guy in Fran.

Izzo was an assistant to Jud Heathcote.

But Doherty did bomb, without question, at UNC. And Guthridge wasn't that great, and what did he have, two years?

Ollie left a program in burning cinders, but yes, he got them another title with Calhoun's kids.

Some assistants work out. Izzo is a nice example. So is Paul Pasqualoni.

 

[Bayside44]

But Doherty did bomb, without question, at UNC. And Guthridge wasn't that great, and what did he have, two years?

Ollie left a program in burning cinders, but yes, he got them another title with Calhoun's kids.

Some assistants work out. Izzo is a nice example. So is Paul Pasqualoni.

Three years and two FF for Guthridge. He seemed 30 years older than he was and they all wanted Roy.

Unless the bottom falls out I'd be surprised if Cuse goes outside the family.

 

[ar inj]

The last time SU hired a bball coach it was an assistant with no bball head coaching experience. Does SU still have a golf team?

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I like Mike and wished I’d been able to see him coach at Syracuse.
However, if his record keeps dropping I would look at someone else.

Why would Oats want to come north and coach us? His second year at Alabama they are 26-7 and into the sweet sixteen and bet he just keeps on getting better. If we tried to hire him Alabama if they are smart would sign him to a new contract raising his current $3.225 M one through 2007 to something we couldn’t afford.

So, it's been a football school, and now they are beginning to make in-roads in BB, why not keep on going. Promote the hell out of it, Coleman Colesium holds almost 16,000 probably 20,000 SRO with two additional courts for practice and weight and locker rooms and keep on going?

I say we hire our new HC off our bench.

Mike's record at UW so far:

Washington Huskies (Pac-12 Conference) (2017–present)​
2017–18	Washington	21–13	10–8	T–6th	NIT Second Round
2018–19	Washington	27–9	15–3	1st	NCAA Division I Second Round
2019–20	Washington	15–17	5–13	12th
2020–21	Washington	5–21	4–16	11th
2021–22	Washington	4–4
Washington:​	72–62 (.537)	34–39 (.466)
Total:​	76–67 (.531)

But what the hell do I really know like everyone else about who is going to end up as our new HC.

If Jim is going out to play golf at 80, three years from now perhaps there may be someone else whose interest may be piqued by the thought of being the coach under the newly crowned Dome because his position with another team is ending. Someone, though he played here briefly, who doesn't need much of an introduction, has made and lived a tremendous sports career so far and is familiar with Syracuse but might be looking for another basketball position?

Hes having success at probably the worst place to have it. Noone at that school cares about basketball. They don't have a new arena theirs is ancient. I'd take a lateral move if I was him to leave while the stock is high and not have a decline like Hopkins has at UW.

Its like coaching Duke or Kentucky football. No matter what he does he isn't elevating Bama above the peer SEC schools who are pretty good atm (Tennesse/Auburn/LSU/Florida.) They won't ever be a Kentucky long term. That league looks a little better right now than the ACC in hoops for this year and thats with UK not being great. He just beat Gonzaga in Seattle this could be his high water mark how much better is recruiting gonna get there?

Look how quickly Hurley turned Uconn around Oats would do the same thing here just on a bigger scale IMO. He coached at Buffalo hes a perfect fit. I also don't think JB leaving with his 2 kids would be the worst ending for him either. Make the tournament win a game (s) Buddy sneaks into the draft JB goes out on top.

 

[Bulldog04]

No matter what coach SU looks at, does the more and more they stay around bubble team status, does it make the job less attractive ? I go back and forth on this quite a bit. Obv this isn’t cuse from big East days, but maybe it gives a coach an opportunity to realize potential ?

 

[Cusefan69]

Yeah I think our fan base is going to have potentially a wake up call post JB. Sustaining winning record as long as he has. People are tired of how he does things, which is totally fair but winning is not automatic post JB. There could be some ebbs and flows before the right coach materializes. For those who think things are tough right now, wait and see what it’s like for the guy following the HOF coach. I am hoping for good things but its no guarantee. Enjoy the winning seasons while they are still happening, tho less sexy than 80s and 90s and early 2000s.

 

[Ragman2000]

Yeah I think our fan base is going to have potentially a wake up call post JB. Sustaining winning record as long as he has. People are tired of how he does things, which is totally fair but winning is not automatic post JB. There could be some ebbs and flows before the right coach materializes. For those who think things are tough right now, wait and see what it’s like for the guy following the HOF coach. I am hoping for good things but its no guarantee. Enjoy the winning seasons while they are still happening, tho less s e xy than 80s and 90s and early 2000s.

Look no further than Indiana as Exhibit A. They made the FF with a Knight Assistant in 2002 (Mike Davis) and have been through numerous coaches and basically irrelevance since. Living and working with the fans suffering through that experience, I can say it scares the crap out of me but seems inevitable.

 

[RF2044]

Yeah I think our fan base is going to have potentially a wake up call post JB. Sustaining winning record as long as he has. People are tired of how he does things, which is totally fair but winning is not automatic post JB. There could be some ebbs and flows before the right coach materializes. For those who think things are tough right now, wait and see what it’s like for the guy following the HOF coach. I am hoping for good things but its no guarantee. Enjoy the winning seasons while they are still happening, tho less s e xy than 80s and 90s and early 2000s.

Dumb post.

It's amazing to me how people are afraid of change. Just because there's risk doesn't mean you shouldn't move forward.

Want to know the "best" way to have negative outcomes replacing JB? Limiting your candidate pool to a group of unqualified candidates.