Nate Oats vs. Coach Hop Thread

[nyucuse]

Look no further than Indiana as Exhibit A. They made the FF with a Knight Assistant in 2002 (Mike Davis) and have been through numerous coaches and basically irrelevance since. Living and working with the fans suffering through that experience, I can say it scares the crap out of me but seems inevitable.

Disagree. Is the Indiana effect possible, sure, but it is hardly inevitable. Plenty of programs have maintained success following a transition. For SU (and about 15-20 other top tier programs) it all comes down to the right coaching hire. If they hit that right, there is no reason in the world SU cannot return to regular top 20 (and better status). Aside from the usual 4-5 programs, SU is a destination job. The key is finding the right coach. And not limiting it to a pool of unproven assistants who have frankly been involved in this prolonged stretch of mediocrity.

 

[Cusefan69]

Dumb post.

It's amazing to me how people are afraid of change. Just because there's risk doesn't mean you shouldn't move forward.

Want to know the "best" way to have negative outcomes replacing JB? Limiting your candidate pool to a group of unqualified candidates.

Whose afraid of change? I am a poster who keeps endorsing going through a process of identifying the best candidates should be identified and pursued. Replicating JBs success is not a given no matter who you get though and some of our fans get bent over some pretty stupid stuff. If that's not you then great . Fyi responding to someone's post as stupid is actually the stupid post. Just say you disagree and why.

 

[JustPherU]

It won't be Oats or Hopkins...If they were to go out of the program they would look for an A10 coach...However, with all the talk about Dino's buyout being too expensive...We aren't paying Oats and Few the 5-7 M a year that they are worth...More likely it will be Gerry or Red because we could probably pay Red 1.5M a year, and we could pay Gerry an entry level contract at 1.25M...Oats will probably get a 7-10M dollar a year life time deal especially if Bama gets to the Final Four, which they are capable of...Arkansas's Mussellman really intrigues me as a guy, but are we going to outbid Arkansas for their guy...SEC with football money coming in will match anything...SEC basketball with Mussleman, Pearl, Oats, and Porter Mosher and Chris Beard coming in in the near future is on a definitive upswing.

7-10 million?
That’s Saban money!

 

[CousCuse]

Hop shouldn't have gone to the west coast, had he stayed east he would have been fine.

 

[RF2044]

Whose afraid of change? I am a poster who keeps endorsing going through a process of identifying the best candidates should be identified and pursued. Replicating JBs success is not a given no matter who you get though and some of our fans get bent over some pretty stupid stuff. If that's not you then great . Fyi responding to someone's post as stupid is actually the stupid post. Just say you disagree and why.

Fair enough -- apologies for that.

I agree that nothing is a guarantee. But the way to virtually "guarantee" that the successor won't succeed is to limit the candidate pool based upon artificial constraints.

Change is always a risk. Risk doesn't necessarily mean "bad outcomes" -- that's what many fans don't seem to grasp. Risk can also work out favorably.

 

[Cusefan69]

Fair enough -- apologies for that.

I agree that nothing is a guarantee. But the way to virtually "guarantee" that the successor won't succeed is to limit the candidate pool based upon artificial constraints.

Change is always a risk. Risk doesn't necessarily mean "bad outcomes" -- that's what many fans don't seem to grasp. Risk can also work out favorably.

Agreed

 

[cuseinseattle]

Fair enough -- apologies for that.

I agree that nothing is a guarantee. But the way to virtually "guarantee" that the successor won't succeed is to limit the candidate pool based upon artificial constraints.

Change is always a risk. Risk doesn't necessarily mean "bad outcomes" -- that's what many fans don't seem to grasp. Risk can also work out favorably.

I think a lot of people are just operating from their belief on what will take place. When I say Red will get the job that is just my belief on what will happen and my opinion on how much power JB has. It's not who I think the best candidate is or anything like that.

 

[orangecuse]

I think a lot of people are just operating from their belief on what will take place. When I say Red will get the job that is just my belief on what will happen and my opinion on how much power JB has. It's not who I think the best candidate is or anything like that.

Possibly. I presume if some of those folks whom operate that way wanted to avoid such an honest misinterpretation, they could simply preface their remark as; in my opinion, I think, I believe, etc.

 

[Cuse Action]

Football school.with zero bball history. Where no one cares about bball.

Oats is making BB popular down there. Is the SU job following JB really that attractive?

 

[Cuse Action]

I think a lot of people are just operating from their belief on what will take place. When I say Red will get the job that is just my belief on what will happen and my opinion on how much power JB has. It's not who I think the best candidate is or anything like that.

I hope Red does get the job, he deserves a shot.

 

[Trueblue25]

This is not football.

Syracuse is a name school that’s important in the CBB hierarchy, whether we consider the past 10 years of our 50+ year winning season streak a downturn or not.

Fact is, Alabama would need to pay Oats to convince him to stay. Why? Because we are a better program than Alabama and because our facilities are improving by the year that may not pace us with Bama football, but will have us ahead of basketball.

If Kansas and Duke don’t scoop him, we certainly get a chance. He grew up a Cuse fan and has ties to upstate NY.

 

[RF2044]

I hope Red does get the job, he deserves a shot.

He has zero offers to be a head coach at any school, at age 50+. despite being an assistant coach for nearly 30 years. That should be informative about what he "deserves."

This isn't a lifetime achievement award, it is a top 10 caliber job in college basketball.

 

[Briancuse]

Oats is making BB popular down there. Is the SU job following JB really that attractive?

Define popular? There is an old saying down south. Bball is a nice distraction until spring football. Not right after he retires but eventually. Still have the dome Melo center acc rabid fan base. A city where cuse hoops is the it team in town.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I will admit I don't like Nate Oats and I'm not great at being impartial. Having said that he is a good recruiter but until he makes a deep tournament run or at a minimum makes the tournament and out performs his seed once or twice I don't think he is someone that should get a top 10 job.

 

[Carlsberg]

This is not football.

Syracuse is a name school that’s important in the CBB hierarchy, whether we consider the past 10 years of our 50+ year winning season streak a downturn or not.

Fact is, Alabama would need to pay Oats to convince him to stay. Why? Because we are a better program than Alabama and because our facilities are improving by the year that may not pace us with Bama football, but will have us ahead of basketball.

If Kansas and Duke don’t scoop him, we certainly get a chance. He grew up a Cuse fan and has ties to upstate NY.

We won't pay Oats enough money to leave...A coach of that caliber would need 5 M plus, and the fact is we've been getting a hometown discount with Coach Boeheim...With the talk of Dino's buyout do you think Wildhack is prepared to offer Mussleman, Oats Few 5-6 M a year that it would take to get them to leave...Bama doesn't have a Basketball tradition, but they like winning, and the fans will come out and support a good product...More likely it's Red or Gerry because we can pay them 1.25-1.5M on a entry level contract as a HC.

 

[Trueblue25]

We won't pay Oats enough money to leave...A coach of that caliber would need 5 M plus, and the fact is we've been getting a hometown discount with Coach Boeheim...With the talk of Dino's buyout do you think Wildhack is prepared to offer Mussleman, Oats Few 5-6 M a year that it would take to get them to leave...Bama doesn't have a Basketball tradition, but they like winning, and the fans will come out and support a good product...More likely it's Red or Gerry because we can pay them 1.25-1.5M on a entry level contract as a HC.

I doubt it would take 5 mil a year to pry him from Tuscaloosa. ADJW has also displayed a willingness to open up the check book for our flagship programs. Not 5 mil open, but competitive offerings

 

[Carlsberg]

I doubt it would take 5 mil a year to pry him from Tuscaloosa. ADJW has also displayed a willingness to open up the check book for our flagship programs. Not 5 mil open, but competitive offerings

I think it depends on Oats willingness to actually leave...He's probably making 3.5M rn. Alabama fans love that he's winning. He beat Gonzaga, and he took his team pretty deep last year...It's a football school, but have you seen Weekend Series in College Baseball...SEC fans don't care much for basketball when it compares to football, but if you win, they will come out.

Syracuse pocketbooks < Alabama Sports pocketbooks...He may like the fact that he's built up Alabama, and enjoy living there...What indication do you have that Wildhack will spend 4.5-5.5 M to get a premiere basketball coach? When he can go to Gerry and Red for 1.5M, and he can say just don't screw it up guys. Let's think about it:

20 Home Games a Year...We draw an Average of 24,500. Let's say average price (Prices are dynamic obviously) are 45/ticket...We are grossing on average a game (1.1M in Gate Revenue)...x20 is 22M in Revenue from Basketball...With a gate like that we should be willing to spend 5M-6M for a real knockout hire like a Mussleman or Oats...I'm just afraid they will not go that route, and go cheap with Gerry or Red.

I feel like if you go outside the program to the SEC, you go with Eric Musselman from Arkansas. He's grew up Minnesota. His dad is a legend there...he might be more adept at coming up North than Oats.

 

[longtimefan]

I think it depends on Oats willingness to actually leave...He's probably making 3.5M rn. Alabama fans love that he's winning. He beat Gonzaga, and he took his team pretty deep last year...It's a football school, but have you seen Weekend Series in College Baseball...SEC fans don't care much for basketball when it compares to football, but if you win, they will come out.

Syracuse pocketbooks < Alabama Sports pocketbooks...He may like the fact that he's built up Alabama, and enjoy living there...What indication do you have that Wildhack will spend 4.5-5.5 M to get a premiere basketball coach? When he can go to Gerry and Red for 1.5M, and he can say just don't screw it up guys. Let's think about it:

20 Home Games a Year...We draw an Average of 24,500. Let's say average price (Prices are dynamic obviously) are 45/ticket...We are grossing on average a game (1.1M in Gate Revenue)...x20 is 22M in Revenue from Basketball...With a gate like that we should be willing to spend 5M-6M for a real knockout hire like a Mussleman or Oats...I'm just afraid they will not go that route, and go cheap with Gerry or Red.

I feel like if you go outside the program to the SEC, you go with Eric Musselman from Arkansas. He's grew up Minnesota. His dad is a legend there...he might be more adept at coming up North than Oats.

Assuming you decide to do a national search--you still have to find a good candidate who is interested in the job. Maybe Oats, Musselman, etc. are happy in their current positions. It takes 2 to tango.

 

[Carlsberg]

Assuming you decide to do a national search--you still have to find a good candidate who is interested in the job. Maybe Oats, Musselman, etc. are happy in their current positions. It takes 2 to tango.

This is very true...Mussleman at Arkansas has the legacy of Coach Nolan Richardson getting to the Final Four, and Bama just has money so yeah.

 

[grepal]

Disagree. Is the Indiana effect possible, sure, but it is hardly inevitable. Plenty of programs have maintained success following a transition. For SU (and about 15-20 other top tier programs) it all comes down to the right coaching hire. If they hit that right, there is no reason in the world SU cannot return to regular top 20 (and better status). Aside from the usual 4-5 programs, SU is a destination job. The key is finding the right coach. And not limiting it to a pool of unproven assistants who have frankly been involved in this prolonged stretch of mediocrity.

Look what UCONN has had to go through once Calhoun retired. Never easy replacing a legend. Even North Carolina had to go through it.