Natural Light

[MSOrange]

Did you read the part about what they had to do in Minneapolis to stage the Final Four games? Manufacture and install darkening panels to the tune of $4.6M. Just what they need--another on-going multimillion dollar expense.

Edit: Beat me to it by a minute Bayside.

Exactly. I was wondering if I was the only one who read that part.

 

[Toga]

Hoping the lighting system is whiz bang off the hook cool.

 

[RandomGuy]

nothing better than looking up into a clear roof and getting blinded on a punt return.

Yet, 130 other FBS teams do it every Saturday.

 

[supp]

A couple of things. The article makes clear that once it snows, they're leaving it up there unlike now. No need to crank the heat up to 90 to melt it. So if there was EFTE, you couldn't see anything for much of the winter anyway. Second, the roof isn't the only thing on their agenda. There are other improvements coming, including a/c. The opacity no doubt will help to keep cooling expenses down too. I can imagine those EFTE panels acting like magnifying glasses. Third, can we see what it all looks like after it's done before we start bitching about it?

 

[texascpa]

My takeway:

Pretty good job on the article, but it's lacking in specifics that would answer back-and-forths like what Wiseman and Tom are talking about, mostly because it relies on a lot of vague quotes from Sala and Wildspicer. "I think it will be as bright as it is today" doesn't offer anything in the way of objective explanation.

Someone mentioned SU's lack of public outreach about this project the other day. I can't disagree. They can't just put out a spec sheet on this job, comparing materials, what percentage of the roof covered with which materials, what percentage of the roof was covered with the old material, etc.?

The "power outage" quote was also weird. Sala won't sit at the scorer's table worrying about a power outage and delay in turning on the lights anymore? OK. But that's never happened at an SU basketball or football game, so it's probably not cause for concern.

Probably a silly question, but why does a private university need "public outreach" on a friggin roof/stadium renovation? All they gain from that is a bunch of suggestions from wannabe engineers.

 

[FrancoPizza]

go around and look at any gym that had windows letting light in and see how much of a failure it is.. playing indoors with windows not blocking most of the direct sunlight just doesnt work.

opaque to let light in is fine. clear enough to see out will not work.. nothing better than looking up into a clear roof and getting blinded on a punt return.

Why not use a 2-way mirror on the roof? Fans can see out, but the sun can't see in?

 

[Nick44]

You can't wait for who to leave? Wildhack?

Must be Wildhack since he's the only one quoted in the article. JB wasn't even interviewed.

JB. Wildhack has been excellent but IMO JB answers to nobody.

JB also doesn’t need to be interviewed. You would be crazy to think he hasn’t expressed his opinions on this to the decision makers. Why would he need to provide a quote to the PS?

 

[Orangello]

 

[wiseman3]

Probably a silly question, but why does a private university need "public outreach" on a friggin roof/stadium renovation? All they gain from that is a bunch of suggestions from wannabe engineers.

Well, when the public is buying your tickets and going to games...

 

[rrlbees]

JB. Wildhack has been excellent but IMO JB answers to nobody.

JB also doesn’t need to be interviewed. You would be crazy to think he hasn’t expressed his opinions on this to the decision makers. Why would he need to provide a quote to the PS?

What does JB have to do with the reno? Did you read that SU brought in people to do modeling of the roof and the light coming through and the resultant glares and shadows? Did you read what Minny had to do and pay for the games? You think JB had to tell them he didn't want any glare in players eyes for day games? Kudos to SU for seeing a potential issue and doing some testing to see what would and wouldn't work.

 

[Nick44]

Honestly...who cares?

Who the hell goes to a game and whines because they can’t see enough natural light?

Who goes to a game to “notice the roof”?

I don’t want to notice the roof. I just don’t want it to fall on me. I’m watching the game.

I’ll preface this by saying I am a season ticket holder and go to most games regardless.

However, the vast majority of attendees are “casual fans.” As such, the fan experience is vital. So in early September when it’s 75 and sunny out fans will weigh whether they want to be in the sun or be under a roof ala Carousel mall (probably a bad example as even the mall gets natural sunlight in.)

So I think it’s a wasted opportunity given the fan experience benefits it can add. If you do t believe me, just look at the positive feedback the Vikings stadium has received.

 

[rrlbees]

Probably a silly question, but why does a private university need "public outreach" on a friggin roof/stadium renovation? All they gain from that is a bunch of suggestions from wannabe engineers.

They don't.

 

[rrlbees]

If you do t believe me, just look at the positive feedback the Vikings stadium has received.

Where they don't also play bball games and when they did it cost $4M for the weekend.

 

[longtimefan]

JB. Wildhack has been excellent but IMO JB answers to nobody.

JB also doesn’t need to be interviewed. You would be crazy to think he hasn’t expressed his opinions on this to the decision makers. Why would he need to provide a quote to the PS?

You haven't replied to the negative experience of the Minneapolis dome.

 

[hoopsupstate]

There’s other ways to let in natural light. If they widen the concourses, the exterior walls can all be clear glass.

 

[Nick44]

What does JB have to do with the reno? Did you read that SU brought in people to do modeling of the roof and the light coming through and the resultant glares and shadows? Did you read what Minny had to do and pay for the games? You think JB had to tell them he didn't want any glare in players eyes for day games? Kudos to SU for seeing a potential issue and doing some testing to see what would and wouldn't work.

Yes, kudos for the due diligence that was done.

Nothing would make me believe that JB didn’t have a say in this decision. I get it, he’s been the face of a program for 40 years and if his opinion isn’t shared he’s likely going to say something about it. Regardless, it’s a missed opportunity to add a significant benefit to multiple other sports programs one of which had exponentially more revenue potential than basketball.

 

[721Comstock]

There’s other ways to let in natural light. If they widen the concourses, the exterior walls can all be clear glass.

You mean, those structural walls? The ones holding up all the weight of the roof?

Widen them where?? Have you seen what's all around the Dome on the outside?
Hint: It's not open fields.
This isn't Harry Potter - things can't be bigger on the inside, than they are on the outside.

 

[rrlbees]

Yes, kudos for the due diligence that was done.

Nothing would make me believe that JB didn’t have a say in this decision.

what decision? not to move bball out of the dome?

 

[Nick44]

Not sure where you got that this was JB's fault.

The games are all televised. Television wants games where you can see what is happening. A game at 2 pm on a sunny day would have tremendous glare. It would be hard for spectators and players as well. Do you remember day games at the old stadium the Cowboys used to play at and what a challenge they were for television?

That is what is gained using PTFE. We lose looking up and sometimes seeing a blue sky, and maybe some clouds. I think the case for using ETFE is a lot stronger on exterior walls, especially those overlooking Onondaga Valley.

I would happily settle for the exterior walls to use ETFE. But I think that idea has already been nixed. Probably for the same reason.

I always thought the end zone exterior walls was a poor design concept. Waste of space that could’ve been used for end zone boxes or additional seating.

 

[Nick44]

what decision? not to move bball out of the dome?

No. The use of ETFE on the inner section of the roof. That was the initial concept and part of the initial proposal. Along the way it was switched. Expense was part of it but I believe now more than ever that it was concern over lighting during the 2-3 day basketball games they have a year there

 

[Sudano]

Hoping the lighting system is whiz bang off the hook cool.

Here's hoping with the new LED system they can turn them on and off and do some kind of cool pregame projections hype videos for both basketball and football like this:

 

[texascpa]

Well, when the public is buying your tickets and going to games...

Public buys stuff from tens of thousands of companies/entities, most of which don't have public outreaches on products, facilities or much of anything else.

 

[GoCuse14]

Not sure where you got that this was JB's fault.

The games are all televised. Television wants games where you can see what is happening. A game at 2 pm on a sunny day would have tremendous glare. It would be hard for spectators and players as well. Do you remember day games at the old stadium the Cowboys used to play at and what a challenge they were for television?

That is what is gained using PTFE. We lose looking up and sometimes seeing a blue sky, and maybe some clouds. I think the case for using ETFE is a lot stronger on exterior walls, especially those overlooking Onondaga Valley.

This...working in the lighting business...most things we do and the standards we have to meet (ft candles etc..)...are driven through broadcast. There is a standard for safe play for ft candles...but it is lower than what we are required to meet for broadcast.

 

[GoCuse14]

Here's hoping with the new LED system they can turn them on and off and do some kind of cool pregame projections hype videos for both basketball and football like this:

Depending on who wins the bid there will be capabilities for some of this. I know bids needed to be revised to add fixtures that would be capable of putting orange light on the dome ceiling, where our guys come out of the tunnel, the bball court...and I believe a few more areas.

 

[rrlbees]

No. The use of ETFE on the inner section of the roof. That was the initial concept and part of the initial proposal. Along the way it was switched. Expense was part of it but I believe now more than ever that it was concern over lighting during the 2-3 day basketball games they have a year there

Well the article does say there was a concern about glare and shadows. That’s why they did the modeling.