NBA 2018-2019

[chugg21]

And yet, it was still the most successful the Knicks franchise had been in a long time and since.

I don't get the point you are trying to make with this. Everyone is aware that the most success they have had about 20 years was winning 1 playoff series in the East with Carmelo. Years of ineptitude by them doesn't change the fact that making the deal for Carmelo is a large part of why they have had no success.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't get the point you are trying to make with this. Everyone is aware that the most success they have had about 20 years was winning 1 playoff series in the East with Carmelo. Years of ineptitude by them doesn't change the fact that making the deal for Carmelo is a large part of why they have had no success.

It's your last sentence.

The only success they had was when they had Carmelo.

That happened.

Anything else about what could have or would have happened is a guess.

Pinning their other organization failures on Melo makes zero sense.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't get the point you are trying to make with this. Everyone is aware that the most success they have had about 20 years was winning 1 playoff series in the East with Carmelo. Years of ineptitude by them doesn't change the fact that making the deal for Carmelo is a large part of why they have had no success.

Dolan would have found a way to fluck it up some other way. I've been watching the Knicks since the early 90's. They did nothing from 2001 to 2010. It was even worse then. They had zero winning seasons. They had 3 with Melo. It wasn't like they were winning games with Gallinari and company anyway. They had a good half season with them. That was it. The Bargnani deal/Amare deal etc were all much much more devastating.

 

[chugg21]

I have huge debates with nba savvy friends about russ. He’s polarizing. Couple friends always defend him. Never been a huge fan of him but I appreciate his elite athleticism and the numbers. But this past year the shooting was so bad. I don’t think he ever wins and he’s has had elite teammates. One guy actually said he would take him over curry but I have to think he’s using emotion and not facts to make that statement. Might have to send that link to him about the defense!

Go take a look at his contested shot numbers too. He hangs out with Jamal Crawford at the very bottom.

 

[OrangeDW]

It's your last sentence.

The only success they had was when they had Carmelo.

That happened.

Anything else about what could have or would have happened is a guess.

Pinning their other organization failures on Melo makes zero sense.

Yeah, the made the move to get a superstar - and he produced. Regardless of the price they paid to get him, that part of it worked.

They did a poor job in building/managing the supporting cast, and suffered some misfortune with Amare/Chandler in the playoffs.

Let’s ignore the risk of signing Amare and Pringles running him into the ground for a second.

Amare hurt himself in the playoffs two years in a row by doing trick dunks in warmups and punching a fire extinguisher. You can’t make that stuff up.

And Chandler played really well for them...until the playoffs. Hibbert ate his lunch. Who expected that?

If Amare and Chandler would’ve played to their ability levels(even reduced Amare), they would’ve won more series’s.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yeah, the made the move to get a superstar - and he produced. Regardless of the price they paid to get him, that part of it worked.

They did a poor job in building/managing the supporting cast, and suffered some misfortune with Amare/Chandler in the playoffs.

Let’s ignore the risk of signing Amare and Pringles running him into the ground for a second.

Amare hurt himself in the playoffs two years in a row by doing trick dunks in warmups and punching a fire extinguisher. You can’t make that stuff up.

And Chandler played really well for them...until the playoffs. Hibbert ate his lunch. Who expected that?

If Amare and Chandler would’ve played to their ability levels(even reduced Amare), they would’ve won more series’s.

Yeah I don't understand how it's debatable. Melo lived up to his contract. He's the only one that did.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I’m not sure if there’s room for the Clippers to add another big. The roster is already at 13 and they could use a backup PG. George is probably going to start at PF with Zubac at C. Harrell, Green, and Kabengele will back them up.

Maybe they could get a guy like Joakim Noah, but he wouldn’t play much.

Leonard and George are both going to have to have their minutes managed again next season. George had 2 shoulder surgeries, and is uncertain for the start of the year. And Leonard was playing on one leg for the final couple rounds of the playoffs. He needs some R&R and time load management, too.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If you want to talk about bad Knick contracts the worst of Dolan’s tenure was giving poor mans Klay Thompson aka Allan Houston 100 million in 2001 when his knees were already falling apart.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If you spend $100M on one player AND he is mostly healthy and plays some of the best ball of his career (which was the case from 2011-14), and you only win one series...then you really botched everything else.

2014 for example...Melo averaged 27 and 8. How do you manage to miss the playoffs in the East with Melo doing 27 and 8? Terrible.

You're trying to act like signing a max player is somehow not connected to the rest of the roster composition. If one guy takes up 25-33% of your total cap space and you barely make the playoffs, that tells you a couple things - your superstar can't win for you all by himself, and the rest of your roster isn't as good as it needs to be.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You're trying to act like signing a max player is somehow not connected to the rest of the roster composition. If one guy takes up 25-33% of your total cap space and you barely make the playoffs, that tells you a couple things - your superstar can't win for you all by himself, and the rest of your roster isn't as good as it needs to be.

Melo's contract wasn't the problem, Stoudemire's was.

 

[Alsacs]

Knicks also stupidly used their amnesty clause on Chauncey Billups.

 

[Alsacs]

I have huge debates with nba savvy friends about russ. He’s polarizing. Couple friends always defend him. Never been a huge fan of him but I appreciate his elite athleticism and the numbers. But this past year the shooting was so bad. I don’t think he ever wins and he’s has had elite teammates. One guy actually said he would take him over curry but I have to think he’s using emotion and not facts to make that statement. Might have to send that link to him about the defense!

Westbrook = Allen Iverson of this generation.
Tough player, who plays ball on wall and always gives an effort, but have such high usage rates they need teams tailored to them with quality role players.
Iverson got to a Finals but wasn’t winning it all that way.
Same for Russ.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Knicks also stupidly used their amnesty clause on Chauncey Billups.

After they picked up his option!

 

[Melancer46]

LeBron can't play 48 minutes. Hell, at his age, he shouldn't play more than about 35 minutes a game. I'm looking for them to manage his minutes much better this year. They had him playing huge minutes before he got hurt. In contrast, Kawhi only played 60 games last year as he recovered. Which worked out better?

That doesn't really have anything to do with Rondo starting or closing out games though. LeBron will be doing both of those things. If they want Rondo out there on LeBron's off days that's a completely different argument.

 

[MikeSU02]

Westbrook = Allen Iverson of this generation.
Tough player, who plays ball on wall and always gives an effort, but have such high usage rates they need teams tailored to them with quality role players.
Iverson got to a Finals but wasn’t winning it all that way.
Same for Russ.

Bad signs for Russ:

The one everyone knows, his 3PT% is going down (last three years): 34% > 30% > 29%

Here is what is even worse (again, last three years):
FTA/game: 10.4 > 7.4 > 6.2
FT%: 85% > 74% > 66%

Something ain't right with him. I'd even concede the three point percentage, but if he isn't doing it at the line, you are really in trouble.

 

[Melancer46]

Bad signs for Russ:

The one everyone knows, his 3PT% is going down (last three years): 34% > 30% > 29%

Here is what is even worse (again, last three years):
FTA/game: 10.4 > 7.4 > 6.2
FT%: 85% > 74% > 66%

Something ain't right with him. I'd even concede the three point percentage, but if he isn't doing it at the line, you are really in trouble.

The FT% thing is just so insanely bizarre. His free throw shooting was a huge part of what made him a superstar; he just attacked defenses ferociously and was pretty much a lock to make his free throws.

 

[Ghost]

After they picked up his option!

This was one of the most bizarrely fascinating moves in NBA history. It really doesn't get enough credit for how amazingly stupid it was. It was like zero people in the organization understood how it worked.

 

[chugg21]

Bad signs for Russ:

The one everyone knows, his 3PT% is going down (last three years): 34% > 30% > 29%

Here is what is even worse (again, last three years):
FTA/game: 10.4 > 7.4 > 6.2
FT%: 85% > 74% > 66%

Something ain't right with him. I'd even concede the three point percentage, but if he isn't doing it at the line, you are really in trouble.

If he loses even a half step then he is going to be a net negative player. The moment that he moves from a top 1% athlete in the league to somewhere in the 80-90% range is going to be a nightmare for whichever team is paying him $40m+.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This was one of the most bizarrely fascinating moves in NBA history. It really doesn't get enough credit for how amazingly stupid it was. It was like zero people in the organization understood how it worked.

I've long maintained that the Knicks could have become a force had they declined Billups option, amnestied Stoudemire, and built around Melo.

 

[Ghost]

I've long maintained that the Knicks could have become a force had they declined Billups option, amnestied Stoudemire, and built around Melo.

I know...all they had to do was understand what the amnesty rule was about. They really must have just not understood it. hahaha It made that little sense to do what they did. Even at the time everyone knew - except for the Knicks, and it's not even about looking back and judging it now...

 

[Day2]

Leonard and George are both going to have to have their minutes managed again next season. George had 2 shoulder surgeries, and is uncertain for the start of the year. And Leonard was playing on one leg for the final couple rounds of the playoffs. He needs some R&R and time load management, too.

Right, I’m already taking that into consideration. I expect Harrell to be the biggest beneficiary in terms of minutes at PF.

 

[NineOneSeven]

This was one of the most bizarrely fascinating moves in NBA history. It really doesn't get enough credit for how amazingly stupid it was. It was like zero people in the organization understood how it worked.

What happened?

 

[Ghost]

What happened?

Eh, the first time there was an amnesty the Knicks decided to keep Allan Houston.

Deciding that that move was so colossally stupid, and wanting people to forget about it, the Knicks decided to take a team option on Chauncey, and then amnesty him for attempt number two! They kept Stoudemaire. Which may be fine, not really, but they did it all for Tyson Chandler. Leaving them with no Chauncey, no free agents to get the next year, and three big men who didn't fit together on the court at the same time. And that was the beginning of the end.

I guess it worked in that most people forgot about the Allan Houston screw up!

 

[Knicks411]

I have huge debates with nba savvy friends about russ. He’s polarizing. Couple friends always defend him. Never been a huge fan of him but I appreciate his elite athleticism and the numbers. But this past year the shooting was so bad. I don’t think he ever wins and he’s has had elite teammates. One guy actually said he would take him over curry but I have to think he’s using emotion and not facts to make that statement. Might have to send that link to him about the defense!

The Knicks trading for Russ (which they can't do until 12/15 anyway, thank God) would be one of the dumbest things they could do. (so they might do it!)

Even at his best, I was never a huge fan of Russ, I really don't think he's a winning player (tip; this is a good thing to say about players you dont like cause it doesn't totally mean anything but also it kinda does) and he just shot so poorly last year. That contract is brutal. Zero interest in him. Zero I say!

 

[Knicks411]

I've long maintained that the Knicks could have become a force had they declined Billups option, amnestied Stoudemire, and built around Melo.

Certainly in hindsight, but the thing is, Amare was coming off an all star season the year prior. It went really bad for him, but I don't think there was anyone in the world seriously considering amnestying Amare coming off a 25-8 season.

I am still really surprised they couldn't find someone to trade for Billups. And things went south for Chandler really fast. Here is a great (terrible) stat. Since the 2000-01 season, the Knicks have had an above average defense in one season. just one! And it actually wasnt the year Chandle got DPOY; it was his first year, 11-12.

Also, the Allan Houston amnesty thing is a good LOL knicks deal, but I think they made the right call? Houston retired anyway, so I believe it was essentially the same outcome? Could be wrong