NBA 2018-2019

[IthacaMatt]

Melo's time in NY is the most successful the franchise has been in a long time. Fact.

They had a single first round series win in six seasons. Fact.

If you're going to spend $100M on a player, you need to do better than that.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Someone in the east needs to be aggressive outside of Philly. Nobody had Toronto winning the title after they got Kawhi and look what happened. All you need is a little luck.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

They had a single first round series win in six seasons. Fact.

If you're going to spend $100M on a player, you need to do better than that.

Yeah, that's made up and completely arbitrary.

 

[Trueblue25]

They had a single first round series win in six seasons. Fact.

If you're going to spend $100M on a player, you need to do better than that.

They went to the playoffs three straight years, twice against the celtics big three and once against the Heat. Melo nearly singlehandedly won the last series with the celtics that’d pretty much break that team up. The 2011 and 2012 series were borderline over before even played.

 

[Alsacs]

They went to the playoffs three straight years, twice against the celtics big three and once against the Heat. Melo nearly singlehandedly won the last series with the celtics that’d pretty much break that team up. The 2011 and 2012 series were borderline over before even played.

A’mare Stoudmaire around fire extinguishers contributed to that.

Melo would have been with LeBron and Wade if his agent didn’t screwup his 2007 extension. LeBron/Wade/Bosh all did extensions with player options after year 3. Melo didn’t do that and took the full 5 year max.
Thus he couldn’t become a FA till 2012.
Melo then because of the upcoming lockout in 2011 forced his way out of Denver earlier than he needed too because he wanted more money.
That forced the Knicks to give up more assets than it should have if Melo was disgruntled and leaving Denver. Melo wanting that extra money killed his chance to win.

He got his money which is honestly is a nice consolation prize.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

A’mare Stoudmaire around fire extinguishers contributed to that.

Melo would have been with LeBron and Wade if his agent didn’t screwup his 2007 extension. LeBron/Wade/Bosh all did extensions with player options after year 3. Melo didn’t do that and took the full 5 year max.
Thus he couldn’t become a FA till 2012.
Melo then because of the upcoming lockout in 2011 forced his way out of Denver earlier than he needed too because he wanted more money.
That forced the Knicks to give up more assets than it should have if Melo was disgruntled and leaving Denver. Melo wanting that extra money killed his chance to win.

He got his money which is honestly is a nice consolation prize.

Melo's money wasn't a problem, and what the Knicks traded to Denver wasn't a problem.

D'Antonio shredding Amare's knees and the Knicks brutal management of the cap (Bargnani? etc.) is what limited them. Paying Melo was the best investment they made. Especially since they also raised ticket prices significantly year after year.

 

[Alsacs]

Melo's money wasn't a problem, and what the Knicks traded to Denver wasn't a problem.

D'Antonio shredding Amare's knees and the Knicks brutal management of the cap (Bargnani? etc.) is what limited them. Paying Melo was the best investment they made. Especially since they also raised ticket prices significantly year after year.

Insurance wouldn’t cover Amare’s knees.
That told everyone the Knicks were stupid with contract.
D’Antoni did him no favors either after 2010 he was cooked that was pre-Melo.

The Knicks trade to Nuggets netted them Jamal Murray in 2016, the 2014 pick was traded to Philadelphia and became Dario Saric, the Knicks also sent Timofy Mizgov to Denver and Denver flipped him to Cleveland for 2 first round draft picks, and they got Chandler and Galinari.

The Nuggets absolutely turned a terrible no leverage situation of Melo into leaving into a great haul.

 

[Cusefan0307]

A Better Way To Evaluate NBA Defense

538 out with a new defensive formula called Draymond. Some pretty interesting metrics. Not surprised at the guys who rate the highest since 2013. Some guys at the bottom include Westbrook, Kyrie, and apparently Rondo is the worst defender in the NBA.

 

[chugg21]

Melo's money wasn't a problem, and what the Knicks traded to Denver wasn't a problem.

D'Antonio shredding Amare's knees and the Knicks brutal management of the cap (Bargnani? etc.) is what limited them. Paying Melo was the best investment they made. Especially since they also raised ticket prices significantly year after year.

What they dealt for him was absolutely a problem. Don't see how that point can even be argued. It was half their rotation.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yeah, that's made up and completely arbitrary.

???

His contract with the Knicks was actually for $124M, not just the $100M I mentioned casually in my comment.

Did they win a couple more playoff series that I'm not aware of?

Sources: Anthony took less than max deal

 

[chugg21]

A Better Way To Evaluate NBA Defense

538 out with a new defensive formula called Draymond. Some pretty interesting metrics. Not surprised at the guys who rate the highest since 2013. Some guys at the bottom include Westbrook, Kyrie, and apparently Rondo is the worst defender in the NBA.

I remember reading through a Reddit thread a year or 2 ago about defense and there was a stat that blew my mind about FG% allowed by Westbrook. He was last in the league by a sizable margin and that was obviously because he was chasing stats and wasn't closing out on shooters because he was too busy trying to retreat for rebounds. Pretty sure he has to be the least enjoyable player in the league to play with and other stars bailing on him sure seems to confirm it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

???

His contract with the Knicks was actually for $124M, not just the $100M I mentioned casually in my comment.

Did they win a couple more playoff series that I'm not aware of?

Sources: Anthony took less than max deal

No your arbitrary line was about if you spend $100M on a player you need to get more.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What they dealt for him was absolutely a problem. Don't see how that point can even be argued. It was half their rotation.

And yet despite that, the most successful seasons they had were the ones after the trade and the roster supposedly should have had depth gutted.

 

[Day2]

Cousins is a great low risk high reward signing. People remember him being immobile coming off the quad injury in the Finals but he still averaged 16 and 8 last year in the regular season coming off an Achilles. And he scored 20+ points in 8 of the 30 regular season games he played in, including 20+ in 3 of the 4 regular season April games. Giving him a full offseason to get his body right could go a really long way for him. He ate Jokic up in their big April match up as well going for 28 and 13 to Jokic's 10 and 5.

I think Lakers did a really good job filling out their roster when you look at what the realistic options were for them. Obviously there are going to be question marks, there are for every team in the league. Plenty of high level shooters, good stable of bigs, guys that can cover in the backcourt and two elite superstars to take over down the stretch. They do need to add a wing defender with size though.

Also, if Clippers weakness is on the interior if Cousins comes around he and AD could bludgeon them around the rim in a 7 game series. Clippers don’t really have an answer for AD as is so a Cousins emergence could amplify that. Lakers need to add a guy find an answer to defend Kawhi and George though.

Good analysis. I agree that the Clippers need another big.

I’m not sure if there’s room for the Clippers to add another big. The roster is already at 13 and they could use a backup PG. George is probably going to start at PF with Zubac at C. Harrell, Green, and Kabengele will back them up.

Maybe they could get a guy like Joakim Noah, but he wouldn’t play much.

 

[IthacaMatt]

No your arbitrary line was about if you spend $100M on a player you need to get more.

Yes. I believe that.

If you spend $100M on one player, you need to win more than 1 first-round playoff series in six years.

Do you think the John Wall max contract in Washington was a good one?

 

[Cusefan0307]

100 million in the NBA for a player is nothing these days.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yes. I believe that.

If you spend $100M on one player, you need to win more than 1 first-round playoff series in six years.

Do you think the John Wall max contract in Washington was a good one?

If you spend $100M on one player AND he is mostly healthy and plays some of the best ball of his career (which was the case from 2011-14), and you only win one series...then you really botched everything else.

2014 for example...Melo averaged 27 and 8. How do you manage to miss the playoffs in the East with Melo doing 27 and 8? Terrible.

 

[chugg21]

And yet despite that, the most successful seasons they had were the ones after the trade and the roster supposedly should have had depth gutted.

They had a pretty minimal level of success for a couple years and then the team went down the crapper. Add Gallinari, Felton and Chandler to those teams with Amare and they certainly end up with more than 1 series win.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yes. I believe that.

If you spend $100M on one player, you need to win more than 1 first-round playoff series in six years.

Do you think the John Wall max contract in Washington was a good one?

No, but that goes to show you that you can pay one player a lot and it's no guarantee.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I remember reading through a Reddit thread a year or 2 ago about defense and there was a stat that blew my mind about FG% allowed by Westbrook. He was last in the league by a sizable margin and that was obviously because he was chasing stats and wasn't closing out on shooters because he was too busy trying to retreat for rebounds. Pretty sure he has to be the least enjoyable player in the league to play with and other stars bailing on him sure seems to confirm it.

I have huge debates with nba savvy friends about russ. He’s polarizing. Couple friends always defend him. Never been a huge fan of him but I appreciate his elite athleticism and the numbers. But this past year the shooting was so bad. I don’t think he ever wins and he’s has had elite teammates. One guy actually said he would take him over curry but I have to think he’s using emotion and not facts to make that statement. Might have to send that link to him about the defense!

 

[Cusefan0307]

If you spend $100M on one player AND he is mostly healthy and plays some of the best ball of his career (which was the case from 2011-14), and you only win one series...then you really botched everything else.

2014 for example...Melo averaged 27 and 8. How do you manage to miss the playoffs in the East with Melo doing 27 and 8? Terrible.

JR Smith was their second best player, Tyson Chandler turned into a dinosaur and Raymond Felton weighed 600 pounds.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

They had a pretty minimal level of success for a couple years and then the team went down the crapper.

And yet, it was still the most successful the Knicks franchise had been in a long time and since.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I have huge debates with nba savvy friends about russ. He’s polarizing. Couple friends always defend him. Never been a huge fan of him but I appreciate his elite athleticism and the numbers. But this past year the shooting was so bad. I don’t think he ever wins and he’s has had elite teammates. One guy actually said he would take him over curry but I have to think he’s using emotion and not facts to make that statement. Might have to send that link to him about the defense!

Lol your friend that would take Russ over Curry doesn't know basketball apparently. Tell him to go watch game 7 of the 2016 WCF.

 

[chugg21]

100 million in the NBA for a player is nothing these days.

It was 8 years ago when the Cap was about half of what it is now.

 

[OrangeDW]

I have huge debates with nba savvy friends about russ. He’s polarizing. Couple friends always defend him. Never been a huge fan of him but I appreciate his elite athleticism and the numbers. But this past year the shooting was so bad. I don’t think he ever wins and he’s has had elite teammates. One guy actually said he would take him over curry but I have to think he’s using emotion and not facts to make that statement. Might have to send that link to him about the defense!

You could’ve won a lot with Russ in 1999 - if you put Eric Snow, Aaron McKie, George Lynch, and Theo Ratliff with him.

Game has changed. OKC won a lot when they had overwhelming talent(which Russ was a huge part of), but with him as your best guy? Tough to build around a guy like that in today’s game IMO.