NBA 2018-2019

[Alsacs]

I said the league has a tampering issue.
Everyone does it and only Magic did it in a way that got the attention of the league office.
They need to either fix the rules or just say you can tamper.
Kemba and Kyrie both had contracts done before July 1st.
Pretty much every contract announced on July 1st was done before it was legal.

 

[jncuse]

Exactly. As far as the Clippers are concerned, this is exactly what you use draft capital for. The choice between a bunch of future picks and a duo of Kawhi Leonard and Paul George is an easy one.

Why would people assume that any of these picks would amount to Leonard, George, or Westbrook? And why would people assume that the Clippers and Rockets are going to suck in three years?

Uncle Dennis is going to these Clipper dreamers so bad. AFter 2 years HE GONE.

The Raptors won a title, and lost a late first. (And Derozan who they were trying to dump his contract for a non lotto first). They got a title and came out disappointed, a little angry but largely unscathed as they knew this was a real possibility.

 

[Day2]

I said the league has a tampering issue.
Everyone does it and only Magic did it in a way that got the attention of the league office.
They need to either fix the rules or just say you can tamper.
Kemba and Kyrie both had contracts done before July 1st.
Pretty much every contract announced on July 1st was done before it was legal.

Seems to me the league will look the other way when only players are involved. Doc Rivers compared Leonard to Jordan and was hit with a fine (worth it). Players have been “tampering” for a long time, though. That’s how LBJ and Bosh wound up in Miami, right?

 

[jncuse]

Raptors fan, right? Just enjoy the ‘ship. Your GM is trying to save face.

Yep, it will be one more ship than the Clippers ever get.

No problems with Kawhi. Good guy, absolute professional, will always hope he does well. He is not the guy that will F you over. It will be Uncle Dennis.

Just remember that MLSE are owned by two of the largest public companies in Canada. As a public company they could not risk meeting Uncle Dennis "demands".

 

[chugg21]

Who really cares about tampering honestly? I don't give a single crap about it. It's like the cheating in college basketball. When we were doing it and winning, no one was complaining. Now we aren't and are no longer elite and the use of the word "bag" is now thrown around constantly.

 

[jncuse]

The biggest challenge for anybody loading up in the West, will be the West itself. Stacked. It will be interesting viewing.

 

[jncuse]

Pretty risky trade if you ask me. I know CP3 is aging and he and Harden hate each other, but a lot of projections had them with the most wins in the west next year. I'd see what they could get for Capela if they can. He was completely exposed at the end of the Warrior series.

It's a risky trade but I think it's the best they could have done with Paul's contract. It might work.

I just hate throwing out unprotected picks for a Houston team for 2024 and 2026.

 

[Day2]

Uncle Dennis is going to these Clipper dreamers so bad. AFter 2 years HE GONE.

The Raptors won a title, and lost a late first. (And Derozan who they were trying to dump his contract for a non lotto first). They got a title and came out disappointed, a little angry but largely unscathed as they knew this was a real possibility.

Where are Leonard and George going to go? They want to be in LA. Apparently George was a Clips fan growing up. I’ll admit, there’s a chance one or both could flip to the Lakers if LBJ retires. Other than that, they stand to make the most money staying put. Ballmer won’t hesitate to max them out.

Ujiri’s story doesn’t add up. Look, if he prefers Siakam and the forthcoming cap space over Leonard and George (and/or Westbrook), that’s his choice. He should just own it. If any fans have a problem with that, he can point to the O’Brien trophy.

 

[Day2]

Yep, it will be one more ship than the Clippers ever get.

No problems with Kawhi. Good guy, absolute professional, will always hope he does well. He is not the guy that will F you over. It will be Uncle Dennis.

Just remember that MLSE are owned by two of the largest public companies in Canada. As a public company they could not risk meeting Uncle Dennis "demands".

Keep underestimating the Clippers.

 

[jncuse]

Apologies to any fans here. My mix of happiness, disappointment, and lack of sleep have come out with some bitter posts.

I sincerely wish Kawhi well.

 

[jncuse]

Where are Leonard and George going to go? They want to be in LA. Apparently George was a Clips fan growing up. I’ll admit, there’s a chance one or both could flip to the Lakers if LBJ retires. Other than that, they stand to make the most money staying put. Ballmer won’t hesitate to max them out.

Ujiri’s story doesn’t add up. Look, if he prefers Siakam and the forthcoming cap space over Leonard and George (and/or Westbrook), that’s his choice. He should just own it. If any fans have a problem with that, he can point to the O’Brien trophy.

Ujiri never had the choice. That's BS.

- Tom Presti used Toronto for leverage.
- Kawhi's camp said sure you can discuss with them, but they were non-committal if a trade got worked out. They said get back to us.
- OKC asked for Siakam and four first rounders for George. That is a ridiculous ask.
- Leonard's camp would have never signed off on the deal if the Raptors had agreed to a contingent deal. So Ujiri cut it off.
- They just wanted to put all the pressure on the Clippers to get him.


In the end Toronto never got hurt**, which is why I know I should not be angry. But I am.

** Based on the initial assumption that he would not stay past a year. Of course it hurt the team when he left, but no other damage was done long term.

 

[jncuse]

Keep underestimating the Clippers.

Keep underestimating Uncle Dennis.

This could go on and on in circles.

All we can agree on is that the Clippers will have a damn good team for 2 years -- possibly a title as well. Long term is always unknown - but with Kawhi it is always a bigger unknown.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The biggest challenge for anybody loading up in the West, will be the West itself. Stacked. It will be interesting viewing.

It's weird to me that the West teams predominantly attempt to compete, and so many East teams seem ok with just being mediocre to bad for so long.

Which is why I give particular kudos to Toronto for shooting their shot.

 

[chugg21]

It's a risky trade but I think it's the best they could have done with Paul's contract. It might work.

I just hate throwing out unprotected picks for a Houston team for 2024 and 2026.

0 unprotected picks involved. The pick swaps are basically nothing either.

 

[rrlbees]

I said the league has a tampering issue.
Everyone does it and only Magic did it in a way that got the attention of the league office.
They need to either fix the rules or just say you can tamper.
Kemba and Kyrie both had contracts done before July 1st.
Pretty much every contract announced on July 1st was done before it was legal.

Were they free agents?

 

[Day2]

Ujiri never had the choice. That's BS.

- Tom Presti used Toronto for leverage.
- Kawhi's camp said sure you can discuss with them, but they were non-committal if a trade got worked out. They said get back to us.
- OKC asked for Siakam and four first rounders for George. That is a ridiculous ask.
- Leonard's camp would have never signed off on the deal if the Raptors had agreed to a contingent deal. So Ujiri cut it off.
- They just wanted to put all the pressure on the Clippers to get him.


In the end Toronto never got hurt**, which is why I know I should not be angry. But I am.

** Based on the initial assumption that he would not stay past a year. Of course it hurt the team when he left, but no other damage was done long term.

Clippers gave up even more picks, SGA, and Gallinari. To them it was worth it.

Ujiri has to make up his mind if the offer was legitimate or not. And if Leonard wasn’t going to re-sign with Toronto after they acquired George, where was he going to go? He didn’t want to play for the Lakers. Danny Green just said there was no way that would happen. And Leonard didn’t want the Clips without a second star. That leaves the Raptors.

And do you really think Leonard was going to do George dirty like that? After lobbying him to push for a trade so they could play together, he was going to leave George at the altar in Toronto? Doesn’t make sense.

 

[jncuse]

And do you really think Leonard was going to do George dirty like that? After lobbying him to push for a trade so they could play together, he was going to leave George at the altar in Toronto? Doesn’t make sense.

I don't think Leonard was going to do George dirty. I think the deal would have been contingent if Leonard was willing to sign with Toronto, and only completed then. The story goes that Ujiri realized that Leonard was not going to stay anyway and at this point it was all leverage from two sides.

It was a case of a lot of people using leverage
- Kawhi on the Clippers, his preferred choice, to make the big move, while he spent most of his time hanging out in Toronto the past few weeks/
- Presti trying to maximize his return, using Toronto against LA.

At the end of the day Kawhi ended up where he wanted.
The person, so far, that screwed up the Clippers the most may have been Presti. I think he shrewdly got Toronto involved to up the price.

 

[jncuse]

Clippers gave up even more picks, SGA, and Gallinari. To them it was worth it.

Siakam is worth a little bit more than SGA + Gallinari and a first. He scored 19 PPG in the playoffs.

That being said the trade makes more sense for LA, because the flight risk after 2 years is is much less for the Clippers vs Raptors. I would trust that Kawhi is not lying if he told Ballmer his intention was to stay after the initial 2 .. Kawhi probably genuinely believes that -- I just wouldn't trust his uncle. An

For the Raptors it's best to try to build the Euro / African / Canadian route as a core for the top 3. And while there are good Canadians in the NBA the only that might fit the bill for a top 3 on a good team, is possibly Jamal Murray. Wiggins has been medicore.

It will be interesting to see the 2021 free agency period, because everythng will likely shift again with so many teams with cap space one more time.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Just a reminder...


Damian Lillard killed the Thunder as we know them.

 

[jncuse]

0 unprotected picks involved. The pick swaps are basically nothing either.

Why would the 2021 and 2025 swaps mean nothing? Are they non Houston picks?

If Houston is really bad in 2025, and OKC has managed to re-tool with young players and picks is quite good, couldn't that swap be worth alot.

The other thing with these swaps is that a team that is 7th to 14 th in the league now has a much better chance of getting in the lotto making swaps even more attractive.

 

[Day2]

Siakam is worth a little bit more than SGA + Gallinari and a first. He scored 19 PPG in the playoffs.

That being said the trade makes more sense for LA, because the flight risk after 2 years is is much less for the Clippers vs Raptors. I would trust that Kawhi is not lying if he told Ballmer his intention was to stay after the initial 2 .. Kawhi probably genuinely believes that -- I just wouldn't trust his uncle. An

For the Raptors it's best to try to build the Euro / African / Canadian route as a core for the top 3. And while there are good Canadians in the NBA the only that might fit the bill for a top 3 on a good team, is possibly Jamal Murray. Wiggins has been medicore.

It will be interesting to see the 2021 free agency period, because everythng will likely shift again with so many teams with cap space one more time.

For the record, Gallo also scored 20 PPG and SGA scored 13 PPG. Siakam’s a good player and all, but he’s not better than the two of them combined.

 

[Day2]

I don't think Leonard was going to do George dirty. I think the deal would have been contingent if Leonard was willing to sign with Toronto, and only completed then. The story goes that Ujiri realized that Leonard was not going to stay anyway and at this point it was all leverage from two sides.

It was a case of a lot of people using leverage
- Kawhi on the Clippers, his preferred choice, to make the big move, while he spent most of his time hanging out in Toronto the past few weeks/
- Presti trying to maximize his return, using Toronto against LA.

At the end of the day Kawhi ended up where he wanted.
The person, so far, that screwed up the Clippers the most may have been Presti. I think he shrewdly got Toronto involved to up the price.

Back and forth negotiating between the different parties is how trading works.

Again, Ujiri’s story is trying to have too many scenarios exist at once. For example:

1. We didn’t trade for PG because we weren’t sure if Leonard would re-sign.
2. Once we knew Leonard wouldn’t re-sign, we backed out of the deal.

Both cannot be true.

 

[jncuse]

For the record, Gallo also scored 20 PPG and SGA scored 13 PPG. Siakam’s a good player and all, but he’s not better than the two of them combined.

We will have to disagree on that.
Gallinari is also 30 years old

Back and forth negotiating between the different parties is how trading works.

Again, Ujiri’s story is trying to have too many scenarios exist at once. For example:

1. We didn’t trade for PG because we weren’t sure if Leonard would re-sign.
2. Once we knew Leonard wouldn’t re-sign, we backed out of the deal.

Both cannot be true.

Yes they can both be true. He could have allowed the negotiations to "continue" to increase the Cost for Ballmer who had been tampering all year.

Obviously the go ahead came from Kawhi's camp to discuss George with Presti, But they were still only semi-committing ... (i.e. more things were needed)

Ujiri did not get played by the Clippers. The Clippers got what they wanted, and had to pay a hell of a lot more then they wanted because of Presti and Ujiri. It sort of worked out for all parties.

 

[Day2]

We will have to disagree on that.
Gallinari is also 30 years old


Yes they can both be true. He could have allowed the negotiations to "continue" to increase the Cost for Ballmer who had been tampering all year.

Obviously the go ahead came from Kawhi's camp to discuss George with Presti, But they were still only semi-committing ... (i.e. more things were needed)

Ujiri did not get played by the Clippers. The Clippers got what they wanted, and had to pay a hell of a lot more then they wanted because of Presti and Ujiri. It sort of worked out for all parties.

So let me get this straight: Ujiri is complaining about bad faith negotiating while he was negotiating in bad faith?

And this is the same guy who would be with the Wizards right now if the Raptors don’t win it all, right?

 

[chugg21]

Why would the 2021 and 2025 swaps mean nothing? Are they non Houston picks?

If Houston is really bad in 2025, and OKC has managed to re-tool with young players and picks is quite good, couldn't that swap be worth alot.

The other thing with these swaps is that a team that is 7th to 14 th in the league now has a much better chance of getting in the lotto making swaps even more attractive.

The '21 swap is too soon that its nearly impossible OKC won't be still early in the rebuild and the '25 swap is top 20 protected. Just like the 2 1sts are both top 4 protected. The picks can hurt but can't be catastrophic.