NBA Draft Tonight

[Alsacs]

The SA Spurs just ensured their post-Duncan era won't be as a lottery team. Which is amazing if LaMarcus Aldridge is simply just an all-star top 25 level player with K. Leonard, D.Green, P. Mills they are a top 4 team in the West.

 

[Orangezoo]

The SA Spurs just ensured their post-Duncan era won't be as a lottery team. Which is amazing if LaMarcus Aldridge is simply just an all-star top 25 level player with K. Leonard, D.Green, P. Mills they are a top 4 team in the West.

Now they may not have as much jewelry as the celts and lakers but in regard to dynasty gotta be one of the best in nba history with plenty of chapters left to go.

 

[Knicks411]

Monroe isn't even that good, if the Knicks were my team I'd rather have them not sign him at the max or near the max and wait until there is somebody worthy of a max contract, even if it is next year.

If you say $15 million a year it sounds a lot less than if you say "max deal", but it's the same thing. I have a hard time believing Monroe won't be worth that contract. He's def not a great player, but great players will be going for $25-30 million very soon.

BTW Knicks where would you rank LaMarcus Aldridge in your NBA players. I see him as Chris Bosh in Toronto guy. He is a legit all-star, but I don't see him as the best player on a championship team. I would put LA barely in the top 25.

I can see Bosh as a comp; I think Bosh at his best was def a top 20 type guy. All NBA stuff isn't foolproof, but he was second team this year, third team in 2014. All Star team 4 years in a row. Agreed you probably aren't winning a title if he is your best guy, but I'd say he's probably one of the 20 best players in the league.

Derrick Williams is definitely the most underwhelming of the 3 Knicks signings.

 

[Madbiker]

The SA Spurs just ensured their post-Duncan era won't be as a lottery team. Which is amazing if LaMarcus Aldridge is simply just an all-star top 25 level player with K. Leonard, D.Green, P. Mills they are a top 4 team in the West.

SA is one of the best run and smartest organizations in professional sports.

 

[Alsacs]

Now they may not have as much jewelry as the celts and lakers but in regard to dynasty gotta be one of the best in nba history with plenty of chapters left to go.

The Lakers and Celtics owned the 80's the Golden Era of the NBA.(CBS had the NBA rights)
Michael Jordan owned the 90's the Renaissance era. (NBC had the NBA rights)
The Spurs and Lebron own the post-MJ Era. I think the Spurs are more impressive than the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls because the cap and the fact they aren't flashy. I gotta give Lebron equal billing on this era because of his dominance. I hope the Spurs catch the Bulls with 6 titles in their Era. They really let 2013 slip away as I think they were better than Miami that year, but Lebron willed his team to the title. (ESPN/ABC have the NBA rights).

 

[bpo57]

Now I just did a quick internet search and found a few articles judging all schools and numbers of players in the league and success in the league (all star, etc. w a point system). One list was for 25 years and stopped in 2012. SU was 10th. If you added in the last 3 years SU would clearly be in the top 10. Another was just this century, and we were 8th. So I guess compared to KU, Duke, Kansas and a few others we wouldn't look that good, but we didn't have 30 Mcd's either. But other than the very few top producers, we are doing damn good as far as the NBA is concerned.

I would like to see that article. Who wrote it?

I guess my view is colored from the 20 year period from the early 1990s up until very recently where the only SU players drafted and in the NBA were Melo, Warrick, Etan Thomas and Jason Hart. Wallace and a few others had a cup of coffee. That's a pretty big drought for a program of SU's stature. Definitely more action for SU players as of late but even here the results are mixed as evidenced by Fab, Joseph, Greene and Flynn.

 

[Orangezoo]

I would like to see that article. Who wrote it?

I guess my view is colored from the 20 year period from the early 1990s up until very recently where the only SU players drafted and in the NBA were Melo, Warrick, Etan Thomas and Jason Hart. Wallace and a few others had a cup of coffee. That's a pretty big drought for a program of SU's stature. Definitely more action for SU players as of late but even here the results are mixed as evidenced by Fab, Joseph, Greene and Flynn.

There have been a few. Espn did one a ways back as well that has a thread on here. On there one of the biggest findings was the percentage of duds kansas has had. Before wiggins its been a long run of guys who have underwhelmed since pierce.. Collison and hinrich did pretty well. Chalmers gooden robinson meh. Then a long list of guys who have fallen off the radar. Morris twins decent. Mclemore not bad but story to be told. Big thing is they have had triple the number of blue chippers than SU with a far higher rate of falling out of the league or to the end of the bench.

 

[bpo57]

There have been a few. Espn did one a ways back as well that has a thread on here. On there one of the biggest findings was the percentage of duds kansas has had. Before wiggins its been a long run of guys who have underwhelmed. Collison and hinrich did pretty well. Chalmers gooden robinson meh. Then a long list of guys who have fallen off the radar.

What about Wilt and Jo Jo White?

 

[Orangezoo]

What about Wilt and Jo Jo White?

Dave Bing wasnt too bad either. But back to sincerity the rate of misses on draft picks has accelerated given how common early entries are vs 25 yrs ago. The schools who are after the surefire nba prospects in recruiting every year vs SU who targets them occassionally but is not hunting one and dones to makeup the entire rotation is naturally going to have a shorter list. It is all about perception but you have to look at sample size as much as anything.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

If you go back and read the thread from my first initial post on the topic you will find the answer to every one of your questions. Not confident that will satisfy you though as several have been repeated over and over.

I re-read the entire thread. I didn't find a single answer to any of my questions. The answers are, of course:

1. Nothing

2. Kansas, Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Uconn, Florida

3. Nobody

Look at schools like Louisville and Michigan State. How many kids are they putting in NBA?

 

[bpo57]

Dave Bing wasnt too bad either. But back to sincerity the rate of misses on draft picks has accelerated given how common early entries are vs 25 yrs ago. The schools who are after the surefire nba prospects in recruiting every year vs SU who targets them occassionally but is not hunting one and dones to makeup the entire rotation is naturally going to have a shorter list. It is all about perception but you have to look at sample size as much as anything.

Fair points, don't disagree.

One other way to look at it. In the last 25 years we have had one guy drafted that is an all star. That alone can contribute to the perception of NBA futility for former SU players.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Fair points, don't disagree.

One other way to look at it. In the last 25 years we have had one guy drafted that is an all star. That alone can contribute to the perception of NBA futility for former SU players.

Who cares if they are all-stars or not? Michael Carter Williams won ROY. Dion Waiters is pretty good. Jerami Grant is off to a good start. Ennis could have a decent career. Now McCullough gets drafted in the first round and Rak early in the second round. We are not Duke or Kansas or Kentucky but we put kids in the NBA.

 

[bpo57]

I re-read the entire thread. I didn't find a single answer to any of my questions. The answers are, of course:

1. Nothing

2. Kansas, Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Uconn, Florida

3. Nobody

Look at schools like Louisville and Michigan State. How many kids are they putting in NBA?

I'll help you out:

1- I don't consider 8% of second round draftees having 10+ year NBA careers as commonplace. You do. We disagree.

2- SU's track record has zero to do with Rak although some would say playing all zone in college can hurt you in the NBA. My point is that the flame-outs of many well regarded SU players should give one pause when predicting NBA success. Plenty here predicted long careers for those guys too.

3- RF is on record as predicting a ten year + career. I'm not saying he's crazy or that it can't happen- it certainly can. My very simple point is that the odds are heavily stacked against him.

 

[Orangezoo]

Fair points, don't disagree.

One other way to look at it. In the last 25 years we have had one guy drafted that is an all star. That alone can contribute to the perception of NBA futility for former SU players.

So all stars are your benchmark? In fairness you are moving the goalposts quite frequently here. Additionally i think you are setting unrealistic expectations as well. When you say a program of our stature and then don't reference other schools it does not really say much. We have one title and multiple final fours. We also are not duke unc or kentucky in that we can bring the number one draft pick with a single phone call. Its a private school in the rust belt thats a cold climate with the carrier dome, history (JB etc)and connection to nyc being highlights.

But considering nba players as a measure of success you would have to give ucla a huge bump yet they have been an enigma and a mess for a while now with flickers of brilliance. They have more all stars than SU.. Along with a prime location and a handful of coaches...

Btw.. I know you are into accuracy.. Dc was drafted in 90 and an allstar in 94.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The Lakers and Celtics owned the 80's the Golden Era of the NBA.(CBS had the NBA rights)
Michael Jordan owned the 90's the Renaissance era. (NBC had the NBA rights)
The Spurs and Lebron own the post-MJ Era. I think the Spurs are more impressive than the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls because the cap and the fact they aren't flashy. I gotta give Lebron equal billing on this era because of his dominance. I hope the Spurs catch the Bulls with 6 titles in their Era. They really let 2013 slip away as I think they were better than Miami that year, but Lebron willed his team to the title. (ESPN/ABC have the NBA rights).

San Antonio effectively replaced their old big three with a new big three(Leonard, Aldridge, Green) while the old big three was still on the roster. I think they should find a good rim protector, try to find some more athleticism/versatility at the point and they should be set to compete with Golden State for supremacy in the west the next four years.

San Antonio, Golden State, OKC, And Cleveland have ridiculous rosters next year. I still given Golden State the edge out of all these teams due to durability.

 

[bpo57]

So all stars are your benchmark? In fairness you are moving the goalposts quite frequently here. Additionally i think you are setting unrealistic expectations as well. When you say a program of our stature and then don't reference other schools it does not really say much. We have one title and multiple final fours. We also are not duke unc or kentucky in that we can bring the number one draft pick with a single phone call. Its a private school in the rust belt thats a cold climate with the carrier dome, history (JB etc)and connection to nyc being highlights.

But considering nba players as a measure of success you would have to give ucla a huge bump yet they have been an enigma and a mess for a while now with flickers of brilliance. They have more all stars than SU.. Along with a prime location and a handful of coaches...

It's one way to look at it. We are talking about success in the NBA, right? I don't view our program as the sisters of the poor. We're a big time program - easily one of the top 10-15 in the country with maybe the most consistent track record of winning of any of them.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I'll help you out:

1- I don't consider 8% of second round draftees having 10+ year NBA careers as commonplace. You do. We disagree.

2- SU's track record has zero to do with Rak although some would say playing all zone in college can hurt you in the NBA. My point is that the flame-outs of many well regarded SU players should give one pause when predicting NBA success. Plenty here predicted long careers for those guys too.

3- RF is on record as predicting a ten year + career. I'm not saying he's crazy or that it can't happen- it certainly can. My very simple point is that the odds are heavily stacked against him.

Let me help you out.

1. It happens 2-3 times every single draft. That's pretty commonplace.

2. The zone has nothing to do with anything. Kids play man to man their entire lives. They don't forget how to play man defense because they play zone in college for a few years. Every school, including Duke, and Kansas has flameouts. Should we give pause when Kansas or Duke has a kid drafted? I didn't see people predicting long term careers for Rautins, Kris Joseph or James Southerland or CJ fair? Did you? Who flamed out?

3. Did RF post that? If he did, that's one person's opinion that it could happen. What's wrong with that?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

It's one way to look at it. We are talking about success in the NBA, right? I don't view our program as the sisters of the poor. We're a big time program - easily one of the top 10-15 in the country with maybe the most consistent track record of winning of any of them.

Tell me about Louisville, Indiana and Michigan State's recent NBA track record.

 

[Orangezoo]

It's one way to look at it. We are talking about success in the NBA, right? I don't view our program as the sisters of the poor. We're a big time program - easily one of the top 10-15 in the country with maybe the most consistent track record of winning of any of them.

I think you have to look at things from a where are we going. No program can rest on laurels or history. We continue to recruit well, have a good nba presence and are well marketed on tv. That is a successful program doing its job. We havent hadnt a losing season in longer than any major program discussed in the same breath. New AD, hopkins era announced things are good. Sometimes the details are played with too heavy a bet. I dont see how anything we debated are going to diminish our program. Something to debate sure but until tyus battle says SU isnt big enough in the nba for him to be an orangeman.. We are doing ok. The jaded fans are on the pigskin side

 

[bpo57]

I think you have to look at things from a where are we going. No program can rest on laurels or history. We continue to recruit well, have a good nba presence and are well marketed on tv. That is a successful program doing its job. We havent hadnt a losing season in longer than any major program discussed in the same breath. New AD, hopkins era announced things are good. Sometimes the details are played with too heavy a bet. I dont see how anything we debated are going to diminish our program. Something to debate sure but until tyus battle says SU isnt big enough in the nba for him to be an orangeman.. We are doing ok. The jaded fans are on the pigskin side

I agree with everything you said. I'm not knocking SU in the slightest.

 

[bpo57]

Tell me about Louisville, Indiana and Michigan State's recent NBA track record.

Let's take a peek at UConn. ISince the 1990s UConn has had the following guys play 8 years or more- Ray Allen, Villaneuva, Okafor, Burrell, Butler, Gay, Gordon, Hamilton, Ollie, Knight, Voskuhl and Donyell Marshall. Meanwhile guys like Thabeet, aj price, napier, Walker, Drummond are well on their way.

 

[Orangezoo]

I agree with everything you said. I'm not knocking SU in the slightest.

Something to make note of -since the fine scandal and an obvious bigger role for hopkins the guys we have sent up look like they are progressing better. I wouldnt discount that one bit given his involvement with team USA and it should add confidence to raks chances.

 

[MCC]

He's still a really good player, no doubt. But I just don't think a guy that averages 14 and 9 for a season is a cream of the crop player in the NBA right now, regardless of his per 48 minute stats, impressive as they may be.

Stating the obvious here: they rest Tim during the regular season.

Duncan put up 18 / 11 / 3.3ast / 1.4blk / 1.3stl while shooting 59% from the field in 7 games against the Clippers - this across 36 mins per and up against the PF / C combo of Griffin / Jordan. I'll still take Duncan over Melo, and I don't think it's close.

 

[Orangezoo]

Let's take a peek at UConn. ISince the 1990s UConn has had the following guys play 8 years or more- Ray Allen, Villaneuva, Okafor, Burrell, Butler, Gay, Gordon, Hamilton, Ollie, Knight, Voskuhl and Donyell Marshall. Meanwhile guys like Thabeet, aj price, napier, Walker, Drummond are well on their way.

Burrell marshall villanueva voskuhl and knight floated a large part of that time. Price and thabeet are not on their way. Price is a journeyman and thabeet is tall but hasnt done anything. Napier didnt do anything his first year. Drummond and walker are legit.

Uconn in the 90s are similar to the rush of talent for SU in the 80s... Before uconn was anything.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Let's take a peek at UConn. ISince the 1990s UConn has had the following guys play 8 years or more- Ray Allen, Villaneuva, Okafor, Burrell, Butler, Gay, Gordon, Hamilton, Ollie, Knight, Voskuhl and Donyell Marshall. Meanwhile guys like Thabeet, aj price, napier, Walker, Drummond are well on their way.

But I listed UCONN as one of the schools putting more kids in the NBA.

LOUISVILLE, INDIANA & MICHIGAN STATE please.