NBA Draft Tonight

[ssbriefcase]

I would like to see that article. Who wrote it?

I guess my view is colored from the 20 year period from the early 1990s up until very recently where the only SU players drafted and in the NBA were Melo, Warrick, Etan Thomas and Jason Hart. Wallace and a few others had a cup of coffee. That's a pretty big drought for a program of SU's stature. Definitely more action for SU players as of late but even here the results are mixed as evidenced by Fab, Joseph, Greene and Flynn.

There are plenty of articles on this with a simple search

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-basket...ge-basketball-most-picked-lottery-first-round

http://collegespun.com/acc/syracuse...he-most-nba-draft-picks-in-the-21st-century/2

And of course cherry picking Uconn was a wise decision. But it's a way bigger picture than that. We're talking comparing all the other schools. And SU stacks up nicely no matter how much you think we're lacking. It's a lot harder to make the league than it seems you're giving credit for. Something else to keep in mind; the average NBA career is 5 years.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Sacramento continues to amaze. Word is they just inked Koufas to a four year deal.

When they already have Cousins.

And after they also drafted WCS.

 

[two3zone]

Sacramento continues to amaze. Word is they just inked Koufas to a four year deal.

When they already have Cousins.

And after they also drafted WCS.

Have a feeling Cousins won't be there for much longer.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Have a feeling Cousins won't be there for much longer.

You know, I bet there are people in Sactown that miss the Maloofs.

 

[bpo57]

There are plenty of articles on this with a simple search

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-basket...ge-basketball-most-picked-lottery-first-round

http://collegespun.com/acc/syracuse...he-most-nba-draft-picks-in-the-21st-century/2

And of course cherry picking Uconn was a wise decision. But it's a way bigger picture than that. We're talking comparing all the other schools. And SU stacks up nicely no matter how much you think we're lacking. It's a lot harder to make the league than it seems you're giving credit for. Something else to keep in mind; the average NBA career is 5 years.

Your last two sentences make the point I've been trying to make this entire thread so I thank you for that. Alpharetta thinks its rather routine for second rounders to have double digit year careers.

My point regarding former SU players in the NBA is that there was a 20 year period from the early 1990s draft where SU basically had two guys do anything in the NBA (Melo and Warrick). That's pretty much undeniable, right? Hard to call that anything other than a drought. Unless all of the NBA players during that timeframe came from Europe I would say that is clearly relative underperformance, no? And I don't think that's cherrypicking cuz 20 years is a long time.

More recently we've had several guys get drafted pretty high so the trends are definitely improving to where we are no longer an underperformer although the performance of these recent guys has been mixed at best. Is this a fair summation of the situation?

 

[longislandcuse]

Sacramento continues to amaze. Word is they just inked Koufas to a four year deal.

When they already have Cousins.

And after they also drafted WCS.

Sacramento and Philly are trying to recreate the Monstars.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Your last two sentences make the point I've been trying to make this entire thread so I thank you for that. Alpharetta thinks its rather routine for second rounders to have double digit year careers.

My point regarding former SU players in the NBA is that there was a 20 year period from the early 1990s draft where SU basically had two guys do anything in the NBA (Melo and Warrick). That's pretty much undeniable, right? Hard to call that anything other than a drought. Unless all of the NBA players during that timeframe came from Europe I would say that is clearly relative underperformance, no? And I don't think that's cherrypicking cuz 20 years is a long time.

More recently we've had several guys get drafted pretty high so the trends are definitely improving to where we are no longer an underperformer although the performance of these recent guys has been mixed at best. Is this a fair summation of the situation?

I guess so, if you're not counting Hart, Etan, Wallace, Greene, Flynn. Again, compared to who? Which single schools were putting in more players? You know not only Euro's but every school is eligible for the draft right? You cherry picked Uconn, because they are in the top 5 or 6, depending on what 20 year period you want at the given moment. The links I gave and a whole lot more, put in a lot of data to come up with their lists, and they disagree with your opinion, unless top 10 isn't good enough.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

He was a guy I was thinking the Jazz should have pursued to compliment their young core.

Looks like they are going the foreign route for back up.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Look I hate UConn with the best of em' but the #s are not very close between the two schools. UConn has had a lot more players drafted and a lot more players with lengthy careers. That has been the case for nearly 25 years now. Btw Gay averaged 21 ppg this year. Sure there are busts. When you have that many guys drafted that will happen. Dion, Flynn, Fab didn't exactly justify their draft status either.

I think the lack of NBA success shows us just how great a coach JB is. He wins with lesser pure basketball talent. He puts his guys in positions to succeed, and we get over inflated ideas of their talents. When the true talent evaluators (not fans) come out, our guys don't do so well.

 

[Orangezoo]

Your last two sentences make the point I've been trying to make this entire thread so I thank you for that. Alpharetta thinks its rather routine for second rounders to have double digit year careers.

My point regarding former SU players in the NBA is that there was a 20 year period from the early 1990s draft where SU basically had two guys do anything in the NBA (Melo and Warrick). That's pretty much undeniable, right? Hard to call that anything other than a drought. Unless all of the NBA players during that timeframe came from Europe I would say that is clearly relative underperformance, no? And I don't think that's cherrypicking cuz 20 years is a long time.

More recently we've had several guys get drafted pretty high so the trends are definitely improving to where we are no longer an underperformer although the performance of these recent guys has been mixed at best. Is this a fair summation of the situation?

No matter how you spin it you are not proving anything continuously changing how you contextualize your argument. It is completely a relative matter and even with cherry picking Uconn you have to look at a certain segment of time which doing so dilutes the argument from inception. Not being an arse here but quite honestly you have been arguing with yourself as much as others in here. Half the time it was about 2nd rounder success which its fairly obvious that euros and early entries skew the data and for numbers to support your point you need to look at 4 yr all american 2nd rounders to even begin to compare to rak.

The other element you raised has been SUs poor track record in the draft which again is very much competitive as a top 15 program and several articles make that case. Periods of time have shown dry spells but overall it is still a solid resume. As noted the cherry picking does not really support your cause either. When challenged by my Kansas reference or the mich st and indiana reference you move the 25 yr goalposts citing earvin johnson wilt and jojo. Fact is when you bend the rules to help your argument there really isnt one. Hope you had a great 4th and go Cuse!!!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Looks like they are going the foreign route for back up.

Yeah, Pleiss I guess?

Disappointed that they've pretty much sat things out so far. They haven't even been rumored to be reaching out to any players. So either they're really handling their business quietly, or they are standing pat for the most part. They've got a good core developing, but they really need some better depth. I wonder of they are in the mix for a Gerald Green type.

 

[Orangezoo]

At this point if you are in the west and GS and SA are healthy... save your $ for good courtside seats.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

1- You're twisting yourself into a pretzel with that definition.
2- The zone wasn't even my point there but rather the flame-outs of many SU players.
3- Nothing wrong with voicing an opinion. I voiced an opposite opinion and you've had your wears in a bunch ever since.

1. If something happens 2-3 times every year, it's commonplace. Accept it.

2. Name a school that doesn't have flameouts.

3. When you root for Cuse players to fail, and look to call others out for being optimistic, that's how real fans will react.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

That's kinda like ridiculing the SEC in football cuz Trent Richardson and Tim Tebow didn't pan out. You have that many guys get drafted you're gonna have a bust or two.

Same with any school, including Syracuse.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I scanned the list of MSU players in the NBA. Just as good as SU if not better covering the last few decades. They had one pretty good PG as I recall. Izzo doesn't recruit tons of McD's he just coaches the hell out of what he has.

Louisville had a lot of pros back in the 1980s but not much lately. Another program where the coach maxes out the talent from his players.

IU? Who cares? they haven't been relevant for a couple of decades.

So I just gave you 3 elite programs and none has done a better job of putting their kids in the NBA? I guess we aren't so bad after all.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I did that because I stated that SU had an NBA drought starting in the early 1990s. UConn wasn't very relevant back then. You have to admit that since UConn became relevant there isn't much of a comparison.

You cherry picked Uconn but ignored Louisville, Michigan State and Indiana. You didn't list a single NBA player or All Star for any of those programs, which is very telling.

 

[bpo57]

No matter how you spin it you are not proving anything continuously changing how you contextualize your argument. It is completely a relative matter and even with cherry picking Uconn you have to look at a certain segment of time which doing so dilutes the argument from inception. Not being an arse here but quite honestly you have been arguing with yourself as much as others in here. Half the time it was about 2nd rounder success which its fairly obvious that euros and early entries skew the data and for numbers to support your point you need to look at 4 yr all american 2nd rounders to even begin to compare to rak.

The other element you raised has been SUs poor track record in the draft which again is very much competitive as a top 15 program and several articles make that case. Periods of time have shown dry spells but overall it is still a solid resume. As noted the cherry picking does not really support your cause either. When challenged by my Kansas reference or the mich st and indiana reference you move the 25 yr goalposts citing earvin johnson wilt and jojo. Fact is when you bend the rules to help your argument there really isnt one. Hope you had a great 4th and go Cuse!!!

OZ- fair points. The reference to Wilt and Jo Jo White was a joke. I even attached a smiley face to indicate that. When you made the reference to Dave Bing I feared you took me seriously.

Honestly, I can't believe I have to argue the case that SU players have struggled to get into the NBA and then perform well when there. In the context of a top 15 program. That to me is really obvious but getting SU fans to agree to that was never going to be easy. We disagree. Let's just leave it there. Best to you as well.

 

[OrangeDW]

At this point if you are in the west and GS and SA are healthy... save your $ for good courtside seats.

I think OKC will get themselves back into that mix this year too. But yeah, all of the parity that there appeared to be last season is gone. There's Cleveland in the east, and the Warriors, Spurs, and maybe OKC in the West that will have a shot.

 

[Briancuse]

I think OKC will get themselves back into that mix this year too.

If they stay healthy, they are a 60 win team next year.

 

[bpo57]

I guess so, if you're not counting Hart, Etan, Wallace, Greene, Flynn. Again, compared to who? Which single schools were putting in more players? You know not only Euro's but every school is eligible for the draft right? You cherry picked Uconn, because they are in the top 5 or 6, depending on what 20 year period you want at the given moment. The links I gave and a whole lot more, put in a lot of data to come up with their lists, and they disagree with your opinion, unless top 10 isn't good enough.

My miss on Etan Thomas. Remember I said "did anything". Hart lasted the equivalent of about 4 seasons in terms of games played in the NBA and was primarily a bench player. I give him credit but there are a lot of schools that have guys do that. The other three were all first round busts. Greene and Flynn were in and out of the league pretty quickly.

 

[OrangeDW]

My miss on Etan Thomas. Remember I said "did anything". Hart lasted the equivalent of about 4 seasons in terms of games played in the NBA and was primarily a bench player. I give him credit but there are a lot of schools that have guys do that. The other three were all first round busts. Greene and Flynn were in and out of the league pretty quickly.

I'd say John Wallace's NBA career stacks up with what the average #18 pick does. Some thought he would prove to be a "steal", and he didn't do that. But he wasn't a bust either.

 

[bpo57]

1. If something happens 2-3 times every year, it's commonplace. Accept it.

2. Name a school that doesn't have flameouts.

3. When you root for Cuse players to fail, and look to call others out for being optimistic, that's how real fans will react.

1- You being right about 2-3 times a year would be common place.

2- All schools have flameouts. Never said otherwise.

3- Not rooting for Cuse players to fail. Said Rak was very unlikely to play 10+ years in the NBA. You took that "slight" as your mission to go on a jihad. Nuts.

 

[bpo57]

So I just gave you 3 elite programs and none has done a better job of putting their kids in the NBA? I guess we aren't so bad after all.

IU is an elite program? You might want to update the fellas on the recruiting board. They were dumbfounded (as was I ) when we lost a key recruit to them this spring. IU hasn't been relevant for a very long time.

 

[bpo57]

I'd say John Wallace's NBA career stacks up with what the average #18 pick does. Some thought he would prove to be a "steal", and he didn't do that. But he wasn't a bust either.

Fair enough. Bust is probably too harsh. Disappointment might be a little better.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

OZ- fair points. The reference to Wilt and Jo Jo White was a joke. I even attached a smiley face to indicate that. When you made the reference to Dave Bing I feared you took me seriously.

Honestly, I can't believe I have to argue the case that SU players have struggled to get into the NBA and then perform well when there. In the context of a top 15 program. That to me is really obvious but getting SU fans to agree to that was never going to be easy. We disagree. Let's just leave it there. Best to you as well.

That's he thing - in the context of a top 15 program, we haven't. Compared to Kentucky and Duke, sure. But as a top 15 program, we're right there.