NBA Thread 2021-22 Season

[MikeSU02]

1- Jordan
2- Kareem
3- LeBron
4- Magic
5- Bird

6- Russell
7- Wilt
8- Duncan
9- Shaq
10- Hakeem

11- Kobe
12- Durant
13- Oscar
14- Steph
15- K Malone

16- Dirk
17- M Malone
18- Barkley
19- Dr. J
20- Giannis


Damn there has been some elite talent come through the league! I could come up with another list tomorrow lol... I am pretty fixed on that top 10 though.

Duncan is over Russ/Wilt for me. Won’t argue that too much, tho.

Then:

9. Steph
10. KD

Shaq / Hakeem after that.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Duncan is over Russ/Wilt for me. Won’t argue that too much, tho.

Then:

9. Steph
10. KD

Shaq / Hakeem after that.

How about 13-20? Stuff is damn hard, lol.

 

[Cusefan0307]

How about 13-20? Stuff is damn hard, lol.

IMO Malone is too high. Too many playoff failures. Dirk should be in front of him. He carried a finals team against an all time great team and made another finals where the officiating was questionable at best.

Theres no way Curry is behind Kobe. I will die on that hill. Friendly reminder he had to get carried by Ron Artest in game 7.

 

[Knicks411]

Curry is at the top all time in terms of hockey assists. Has to be. So many passes that lead to 4 on 3 because he gets enormous hedges or doubles so far from the hoop.

And not just hockey assists, but what about the baskets the other guys get because Marcus Smart is faceguarding Curry when he's 25-30 feet from the basket?

I've always said Steph's impact is almost impossible to overstate. The guy is defended in a way no one else ever has been in the history of the game. He's unbelievable.

 

[NineOneSeven]

IMO Malone is too high. Too many playoff failures. Dirk should be in front of him. He carried a finals team against an all time great team and made another finals where the officiating was questionable at best.

Theres no way Curry is behind Kobe. I will die on that hill. Friendly reminder he had to get carried by Ron Artest in game 7.

Yeah Malone and Dirk I went back and forth. For me with Malone... obviously two finals losses against Jordan, but longevity and durability does it for me. Not just that, but the high level of play all those years. Playing until 40 while still having career averages of 25/10 is ridiculous.

But like I said, I might have to think about the list a bit more. Did not give it too much thought. It is tough. I want to get Steph closer to 10 because I love the player, but not sure who to remove. I find Oscar tough to rank, too. And I'd love to have him over Durant, but reality is he's an all time great player despite some of the silliness over the years.

 

[Newhouser]

IMO Malone is too high. Too many playoff failures. Dirk should be in front of him. He carried a finals team against an all time great team and made another finals where the officiating was questionable at best.

Theres no way Curry is behind Kobe. I will die on that hill. Friendly reminder he had to get carried by Ron Artest in game 7.

I agree - added value for changing the game - Dirk is the best foreign player ever and the original stretch 4 (2 things that have altered the game forever) and Steph's shooting has also been a permanent game changer.

Kobe's untimely death will add to his ranking forever ignoring that he tanked teams to go on a personal stat chase near the end of his career.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yeah Malone and Dirk I went back and forth. For me with Malone... obviously two finals losses against Jordan, but longevity and durability does it for me. Not just that, but the high level of play all those years. Playing until 40 while still having career averages of 25/10 is ridiculous.

But like I said, I might have to think about the list a bit more. Did not give it too much thought. It is tough. I want to get Steph closer to 10 because I love the player, but not sure who to remove. I find Oscar tough to rank, too. And I'd love to have him over Durant, but reality is he's an all time great player despite some of the silliness over the years.

My hot take is John Stockton was the best player on those Utah Jazz teams, but he played in an era where everything went through the big man. If he played today he would average 25 a game and be elite both ways. He did not shoot enough for how elite of a shooter he was.

 

[NineOneSeven]

My hot take is John Stockton was the best player on those Utah Jazz teams, but he played in an era where everything went through the big man. If he played today he woula average 25 a game and be elite both ways. He did not shoot enough for how elite of a shooter he was.

Very reasonable. He was a player for sure. Unfortunately they ran up against some other elite squads. Malone averaging 13/9 at 40 is insane though.

 

[Knicks411]

My hot take is John Stockton was the best player on those Utah Jazz teams, but he played in an era where everything went through the big man. If he played today he woula average 25 a game and be elite both ways. He did not shoot enough for how elite of a shooter he was.

Not sure Stockton was better than Malone (but I take the point and in this era you could very well be right) but i remember being struck by the bolded.

I know it's a different era and all that, but take the 98 Jazz. Stockton shot 42.9% from 3. Hornacek shot 44.1% from 3. They combined to attempt 3 3 pointers a game! They still lead the league in offense, but 3 threes a game! Steph can get 3 off in a minute when he's on a heater

 

[Eric15]

1- Jordan
2- Kareem
3- LeBron
4- Magic
5- Bird

6- Russell
7- Wilt
8- Duncan
9- Shaq
10- Hakeem

11- Kobe
12- Durant
13- Oscar
14- Steph
15- K Malone

16- Dirk
17- M Malone
18- Barkley
19- Dr. J
20- Giannis


Damn there has been some elite talent come through the league! I could come up with another list tomorrow lol... I am pretty fixed on that top 10 though.

Overall this is a good list. A few miscellaneous thoughts:

-I personally would flip-flop Lebron and Kareem as 2 and 3.
-I'm not sure who I would take off but I feel like Jerry West has to be Top 20 all-time.
-I think David Robinson is chronically underrated historically and misses out on a couple of years of stats and awards due to his Navy commitment. He's 6th all-time in PER and 10th in VORP.
-I know he's the greatest winner in league history, but I think we overrate Russell slightly as an individual player. I would have him behind Wilt and Shaq.
-The Karl Malone vs. Barkley debate is interesting. I think Malone had the better long-term career, but Barkley in his 3-5 year prime was the superior player.

 

[Knicks411]

Something I struggle with in thinking about all time rankings is I think it's almost a certainty the overall lvel of play has been steadily increasing (a huge amount, I doubt it, but I think the average player in 1990 was better than the average player in 1980 who better than 1970 etc for whatever reason) but then most people's top 5 or 10 list is heavily populated by guys from the 60's and the 80's.

Not to pick on any list (i havent made one), but I kind of struggle with my belief in the above paragraph and then a top 5 that has say, Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Bird, and Magic. Not sure I can reconcile my belief that the level of play has gotten better over time with the idea that 4 of the 5 best players of all time were all active in 1985. But maybe my belief is wrong

 

[Eric15]

Not to pick on any list (i havent made one), but I kind of struggle with my belief in the above paragraph and then a top 5 that has say, Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Bird, and Magic. Not sure I can reconcile my belief that the level of play has gotten better over time with the idea that 4 of the 5 best players of all time were all active in 1985. But maybe my belief is wrong

I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive (if I'm understanding you correctly). If someone is a legend, it is in proportion to the era in which they played.

Bob Cousy and George Mikan will always be two of the greatest players of all-time forever. Neither would make the G-League today.

 

[Knicks411]

I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive (if I'm understanding you correctly). If someone is a legend, it is in proportion to the era in which they played.

Bob Cousy and George Mikan will always be two of the greatest players of all-time forever. Neither would make the G-League today.

yeah I get that, and that is a way to think about it.

It's less "if all these guys were playing right now how would they stack up" and more "how do they stack up relative to their time". And look at mens tennis, the three best players of all time had very overlapping careers. So it does happen.

I still just can't totally reconcile that fact, I don't know if it's just the 80s is a heavy romanticized period in NBA history or what, but i do wonder if something is being missed. (nearly) All of the best players just happened to play in the era where the game really broke through on a national basis? Possible! For sure. And if I was putting together a list, my top 3 is almost certainly MJ/Lebron/Kareem, so i am somewhat guilty of it myself.

This is probably a long way of me saying I think Tim Duncan is historically underrated and I would probably have him over Magic and Bird.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Overall this is a good list. A few miscellaneous thoughts:

-I personally would flip-flop Lebron and Kareem as 2 and 3.
-I'm not sure who I would take off but I feel like Jerry West has to be Top 20 all-time.
-I think David Robinson is chronically underrated historically and misses out on a couple of years of stats and awards due to his Navy commitment. He's 6th all-time in PER and 10th in VORP.
-I know he's the greatest winner in league history, but I think we overrate Russell slightly as an individual player. I would have him behind Wilt and Shaq.
-The Karl Malone vs. Barkley debate is interesting. I think Malone had the better long-term career, but Barkley in his 3-5 year prime was the superior player.

Yeah Jerry West is one I left out. Like I said, the task is impossible. Especially for eras I can only rely on film (if it exists), accolades, and how they are viewed by others. Russell is becoming a more polarizing player by the year it seems considering how limited offensively he truly was. But when you talk about defense and winning, his bread and butter. There are so many criteria you could use, and at the end of the day it’s just personal opinion for sure, based on the facts prioritized.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don’t watch First Take much, but decided to today just to hear what the media narrative is and yep Stephen A all in calling out KD for leaving Steph for Kyrie.

 

[OrangeDW]

Overall this is a good list. A few miscellaneous thoughts:

-I personally would flip-flop Lebron and Kareem as 2 and 3.
-I'm not sure who I would take off but I feel like Jerry West has to be Top 20 all-time.
-I think David Robinson is chronically underrated historically and misses out on a couple of years of stats and awards due to his Navy commitment. He's 6th all-time in PER and 10th in VORP.
-I know he's the greatest winner in league history, but I think we overrate Russell slightly as an individual player. I would have him behind Wilt and Shaq.
-The Karl Malone vs. Barkley debate is interesting. I think Malone had the better long-term career, but Barkley in his 3-5 year prime was the superior player.

West and Isiah Thomas are two that stood out to me as having a good case, but yeah….also hard to take anyone off. Was also thinking about Garnett.

 

[NineOneSeven]

West and Isiah Thomas are two that stood out to me as having a good case, but yeah….also hard to take anyone off. Was also thinking about Garnett.

I think Garnett is underrated all time. Obviously no playoff success is the big factor but what Timberwolf player has ever had success? In his prime he was the best defensive player and best offensive PF in the game. I’ll take that to the deathbed.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think Garnett is underrated all time. Obviously no playoff success is the big factor but what Timberwolf player has ever had success? In his prime he was the best defensive player and best offensive PF in the game. I’ll take that to the deathbed.

And his Celtics run proved what he could do team success wise, with some help.

KG vs. Dirk is a tough one.

 

[Eric15]

West and Isiah Thomas are two that stood out to me as having a good case, but yeah….also hard to take anyone off. Was also thinking about Garnett.

I know advanced metrics aren't always the end-all, be-all, but they don't really like Isiah. He was incredible from about 1984-1987, but I don't think he was elite for long enough to be that high up in my personal opinion.

153th all-time PER, 55th VORP, 158th win shares, 217th offensive win shares, 106th defensive win shares.

 

[Knicks411]

I know advanced metrics aren't always the end-all, be-all, but they don't really like Isiah. He was incredible from about 1984-1987, but I don't think he was elite for long enough to be that high up in my personal opinion.

153th all-time PER, 55th VORP, 158th win shares, 217th offensive win shares, 106th defensive win shares.

Disclosure: I hate Isiah

But I do think his case is pretty weak. His best finish in the MVP voting was 5th. His second best finish was 8th. Interesting that he did make 3 all NBA first teams, but I can't see him in any kind of list like this. You gotta at least have a bunch of top 3 MVP seasons. Joakim Noah finished 4th in the MVP voting one year!

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

IMO Malone is too high. Too many playoff failures. Dirk should be in front of him. He carried a finals team against an all time great team and made another finals where the officiating was questionable at best.

Theres no way Curry is behind Kobe. I will die on that hill. Friendly reminder he had to get carried by Ron Artest in game 7.

Would love to see prime Kobe guard Steph

 

[Eric15]

I think the Lakers at 20/1 are an incredible value bet here. I know I've said this before but I can't remember a time in my adult life where the NBA had better parity than right now. It's almost like college basketball in terms of how wide open it is.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Milan, Jabbar, Jordan, Steph. Guys who changed the game.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Watched the post game last night. Wiggins seems like a really good guy.
Culture, coaching, and teammates are so important to success in the NBA.

 

[OrangeDW]

Milan, Jabbar, Jordan, Steph. Guys who changed the game.

Magic.

Dr. J.