NBA Thread 2021-22 Season | Page 73 | Syracusefan.com

NBA Thread 2021-22 Season

Package and move up for Holmgren.

Holmgren and JJJ would be hilarious. No shots in the paint for the other team.

Memphis will have the (presumable) max extension for Ja kicking in after next year. There are really no good FA though, so I'm not sure that matters as much, if Memphis is making a play for another star player, its probably via the trade
 
Luka should be no worse than third in MVP voting this year. That’s not a hot take. That’s legit.

He should be a first team NBA lock.
 
Luka should be no worse than third in MVP voting this year. That’s not a hot take. That’s legit.

He should be a first team NBA lock.
I don’t think he has much of an argument to be ahead of Jokic, Giannis, or Embiid personally. He’s been amazing down the stretch but unfortunately the start to his season really messed him up. Even after his incredible play to end the season, Dallas has statistically been better when he’s on the bench. He’s also taken a step back this season in his scoring efficiency and he’s obviously nowhere near Giannis and Embiid defensively (though like Jokic, he’s made significant strides here).

He’s obviously poised to win one in the future but this just isn’t the year for it.

Edit: to me, there’s the obvious top 3 and then there’s Luka vs, Tatum for 4 and 5.
 
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I don’t think he has much of an argument to be ahead of Jokic, Giannis, or Embiid personally. He’s been amazing down the stretch but unfortunately the start to his season really messed him up. Even after his incredible play to end the season, Dallas has statistically been better when he’s on the bench. He’s also taken a step back this season in his scoring efficiency and he’s obviously nowhere near Giannis and Embiid defensively (though like Jokic, he’s made significant strides here).

He’s obviously poised to win one in the future but this just isn’t the year for it.
Once he figures out that he should start the season in shape there will be no looking back.
 
I don’t think he has much of an argument to be ahead of Jokic, Giannis, or Embiid personally. He’s been amazing down the stretch but unfortunately the start to his season really messed him up. Even after his incredible play to end the season, Dallas has statistically been better when he’s on the bench. He’s also taken a step back this season in his scoring efficiency and he’s obviously nowhere near Giannis and Embiid defensively (though like Jokic, he’s made significant strides here).

He’s obviously poised to win one in the future but this just isn’t the year for it.

Edit: to me, there’s the obvious top 3 and then there’s Luka vs, Tatum for 4 and 5.

I think he’s ahead of Embiid.
 
Once he figures out that he should start the season in shape there will be no looking back.

Definitely that. But also shipping KP and getting Dinwiddie made the team a better fit.
 
Knicks411 MikeSU02 I'm ready to move on from Donovan Mitchell, what will you give the Jazz for him?
He's the only chip worth keeping. He needs the ball in his hands but they need to find a #2 guy next to him. Butler should have been that guy. Maybe keep Paschall, Forrest and Butler and entertain offers for everyone else. After Saturday night, which would have given them good positioning for the playoffs, they choked it away and lost any momentum. Ainge was a fricken curse. I can't stand that guy.

You know Snyder won't be back. Conley, Gay gone. Get rid of O'Neale. He disappears a lot. Healthy Bojan is great but aging.

That leaves Gobert. Great stats but too many times he gets in these five minute stretches where he gets outplayed by some guy people have barely have heard of. He is the anchor but defensively he can't do it all and especially anything outside the paint. Too bad he and Spida can't figure it out together, especially in the PnR like Conley/Gobert or like Ingles/Gobert chemistry used to have.

Fifteen times they have let teams win after being down double digits. Their bench has not been good. NAW has been terrible. Juancho has been ok. But everyone has been inconsistent. Even Clarkson. All the injuries took a huge toll but now they are healthy and they have four games left to figure it out. Snyder doesn't know what lineup to use but he needs to figure it out.
 
Knicks411 MikeSU02 I'm ready to move on from Donovan Mitchell, what will you give the Jazz for him?

You want to keep Rudy over Mitchell?

A Mitchell package probably looks something like what, IQ/Burks (for salary)/Obi and 2 1's?

or is Rj going the other way?
 
I'm sure Utah would want RJ but I highly doubt the Knicks will trade him.

Really curious to see what Utah ultimately does. I would tend to think they'd prefer to build around Mitchell but I wouldn't really say Mitchell or Rudy are guys I'd want to build around as my centerpiece.
 
I'm sure Utah would want RJ but I highly doubt the Knicks will trade him.

Really curious to see what Utah ultimately does. I would tend to think they'd prefer to build around Mitchell but I wouldn't really say Mitchell or Rudy are guys I'd want to build around as my centerpiece.


It may take RJ but I think it all depends they way Mitchell plays it, does he just want out or is he willing to stay if Gobert is traded? They may move on from Snyder just to get some new blood in there and Snyder would probably have a new job in Sacramento or somewhere else in about 10 minutes. I could see Doc getting run out of Philly if they lose in the first round of the playoffs. Morey will be looking for somebody to blame and it wont be Harden
 
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He's the only chip worth keeping. He needs the ball in his hands but they need to find a #2 guy next to him. Butler should have been that guy. Maybe keep Paschall, Forrest and Butler and entertain offers for everyone else. After Saturday night, which would have given them good positioning for the playoffs, they choked it away and lost any momentum. Ainge was a fricken curse. I can't stand that guy.

You know Snyder won't be back. Conley, Gay gone. Get rid of O'Neale. He disappears a lot. Healthy Bojan is great but aging.

That leaves Gobert. Great stats but too many times he gets in these five minute stretches where he gets outplayed by some guy people have barely have heard of. He is the anchor but defensively he can't do it all and especially anything outside the paint. Too bad he and Spida can't figure it out together, especially in the PnR like Conley/Gobert or like Ingles/Gobert chemistry used to have.

Fifteen times they have let teams win after being down double digits. Their bench has not been good. NAW has been terrible. Juancho has been ok. But everyone has been inconsistent. Even Clarkson. All the injuries took a huge toll but now they are healthy and they have four games left to figure it out. Snyder doesn't know what lineup to use but he needs to figure it out.
I back Gobert over Mitchell for 2 reasons.

1, they fall apart without Gobert. When Rudy is out and Mitchell plays they lose, but when Rudy plays and Mitchell is out they win. The on/off court stats support that they play better with Rudy than Mitchell too.

2, I don't think in trades that they get anywhere near full value dealing Gobert, but I think teams may overpay for Mitchell, especially if the move is made while Mitchell is still under contract for a little bit.

I think if you look at 4 parties - Gobert, Mitchell, the front office, and Snyder, Mitchell's becoming a drama queen, the front office has never adequately addressed perimeter defense through the draft, free agency, or trades, Snyder can't make an adjustment to avoid elimination in the playoffs... Gobert is the only one that really shows up.
 
You want to keep Rudy over Mitchell?

A Mitchell package probably looks something like what, IQ/Burks (for salary)/Obi and 2 1's?

or is Rj going the other way?
I do.

And I think Barrett has to be in the deal.
 
I back Gobert over Mitchell for 2 reasons.

1, they fall apart without Gobert. When Rudy is out and Mitchell plays they lose, but when Rudy plays and Mitchell is out they win. The on/off court stats support that they play better with Rudy than Mitchell too.

2, I don't think in trades that they get anywhere near full value dealing Gobert, but I think teams may overpay for Mitchell, especially if the move is made while Mitchell is still under contract for a little bit.

I think if you look at 4 parties - Gobert, Mitchell, the front office, and Snyder, Mitchell's becoming a drama queen, the front office has never adequately addressed perimeter defense through the draft, free agency, or trades, Snyder can't make an adjustment to avoid elimination in the playoffs... Gobert is the only one that really shows up.
I think this is all basically correct. If I'm choosing one of them to build around, I think I'd rather build around Rudy. Rudy at least knows he's not the guy that you're going to run your offense through (though you can obviously involve him better than Utah has). I tend to think Mitchell just isn't good enough to be your offensive centerpiece while Rudy is clearly good enough to be your defensive centerpiece.

And I do think someone will overpay for Mitchell's shot creation ability; I just don't think that overpay will include RJ Barrett.
 
I think this is all basically correct. If I'm choosing one of them to build around, I think I'd rather build around Rudy. Rudy at least knows he's not the guy that you're going to run your offense through (though you can obviously involve him better than Utah has). I tend to think Mitchell just isn't good enough to be your offensive centerpiece while Rudy is clearly good enough to be your defensive centerpiece.

And I do think someone will overpay for Mitchell's shot creation ability; I just don't think that overpay will include RJ Barrett.

It's tough, because I generally hear that (and def the Mitchell point) but like, I dunno, maybe you can't win a title with Gobert as your anchor? I see clips like the one from this weekend where the Warriors made 5 threes in a row because Gobert dropped every time and I wonder.

I would be fine with the Knicks trading RJ, if anyone cares
 
It's tough, because I generally hear that (and def the Mitchell point) but like, I dunno, maybe you can't win a title with Gobert as your anchor? I see clips like the one from this weekend where the Warriors made 5 threes in a row because Gobert dropped every time and I wonder.

I would be fine with the Knicks trading RJ, if anyone cares
Nobody on the Jazz defends. It's all Rudy.

I'm way more curious to see what would happen if they built around Rudy more than Donovan. They use Rudy to cover a whole lot of ills. Somehow he's the only guy that makes any impact on defense for the Jazz, yet whenever something goes wrong and they lose because the defense isn't quite there, it's on him and not on the rest of the roster or front office for sucking at defense.

It don't make no sense.
 
It's tough, because I generally hear that (and def the Mitchell point) but like, I dunno, maybe you can't win a title with Gobert as your anchor? I see clips like the one from this weekend where the Warriors made 5 threes in a row because Gobert dropped every time and I wonder.

I would be fine with the Knicks trading RJ, if anyone cares
I think Rudy has proven to be pretty scheme diverse at this point. You don’t have to play drop defense with him and you also don’t have to play it in such a way that you just give up a million open 3’s to elite shooters. Utah is pretty much hopeless defensively outside of Rudy. They just can’t stay in front of people anymore.
 
I think Rudy has proven to be pretty scheme diverse at this point. You don’t have to play drop defense with him and you also don’t have to play it in such a way that you just give up a million open 3’s to elite shooters. Utah is pretty much hopeless defensively outside of Rudy. They just can’t stay in front of people anymore.

Yeah thats what I'm unsure on, maybe the rest of the roster is just that bad defensively. Basically, Rudy's excellence comes back to haunt him.
 
Yeah thats what I'm unsure on, maybe the rest of the roster is just that bad defensively. Basically, Rudy's excellence comes back to haunt him.
The only guy who supposedly better than average defensively is Royce O'Neale who occasionally can also shoot the three but is the 4th option or 5th option on offense. Klay Thompson torched O'Neale and it wasn't close.
 
I back Gobert over Mitchell for 2 reasons.

1, they fall apart without Gobert. When Rudy is out and Mitchell plays they lose, but when Rudy plays and Mitchell is out they win. The on/off court stats support that they play better with Rudy than Mitchell too.

2, I don't think in trades that they get anywhere near full value dealing Gobert, but I think teams may overpay for Mitchell, especially if the move is made while Mitchell is still under contract for a little bit.

I think if you look at 4 parties - Gobert, Mitchell, the front office, and Snyder, Mitchell's becoming a drama queen, the front office has never adequately addressed perimeter defense through the draft, free agency, or trades, Snyder can't make an adjustment to avoid elimination in the playoffs... Gobert is the only one that really shows up.
Valid points but RJ Barrett isn't the answer. Jazz will fall to the lottery without Mitchell. So many teams in the NBA are younger and getting better and will pass them by. I love Gobert and he almost helped carry France to a gold medal, but I see too many pedestrian centers play him almost even and too many guys shoot over him when he exits the paint. He has a huge impact on the game but except for a perfect pass for a dunk he has nothing on the offensive end. How about a little jump hook. I saw more the last couple games of him trying things on the offensive end then in the last six seasons. Plus many Jazz fans are sick of him getting the ball down low and then get stripped of the ball.
 
Valid points but RJ Barrett isn't the answer. Jazz will fall to the lottery without Mitchell. So many teams in the NBA are younger and getting better and will pass them by. I love Gobert and he almost helped carry France to a gold medal, but I see too many pedestrian centers play him almost even and too many guys shoot over him when he exits the paint. He has a huge impact on the game but except for a perfect pass for a dunk he has nothing on the offensive end. How about a little jump hook. I saw more the last couple games of him trying things on the offensive end then in the last six seasons. Plus many Jazz fans are sick of him getting the ball down low and then get stripped of the ball.
I'm not suggesting that the only thing to change is to swap Barrett and Mitchell. My assumption is that there are other moves to make to change the roster.

I don't think the Jazz fall to the lottery without Mitchell, unless they get zero back.
 

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