NBA Thread 2021-22 Season

[STEVEHOLT]

Jokic is ridiculous… the way he passes dudes open like he’s an NFL Qb… hits them in stride for wide open shots .. I don’t watch a ton of their games but it seems like whenever I do , the second he comes out of the game , they instantly go in the tank to the point they basically need him back in there

 

[NashvilleOrange]

Jokic is ridiculous… the way he passes dudes open like he’s an NFL Qb… hits them in stride for wide open shots .. I don’t watch a ton of their games but it seems like whenever I do , the second he comes out of the game , they instantly go in the tank to the point they basically need him back in there

Jalen Green looks like he's hitting his stride a bit. Have you changed your opinion on him at all?

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Jalen Green looks like he's hitting his stride a bit. Have you changed your opinion on him at all?

Even if he turns out to be Donovan Mitchell , still better off with Mobley

Until the get rid of kp junior ….they’ll never be even decent.. but may be that’s the plan …

 

[MikeSU02]

Jokic is ridiculous… the way he passes dudes open like he’s an NFL Qb… hits them in stride for wide open shots .. I don’t watch a ton of their games but it seems like whenever I do , the second he comes out of the game , they instantly go in the tank to the point they basically need him back in there

His on/off net rating is absurd, or at least was last month. It was like a 20 point swing. Just something insane.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Yeah Jokic and Doncic are both at the level of LeBron in his prime when it comes to making passes that don't seem possible.

 

[MikeSU02]

Yeah Jokic and Doncic are both at the level of LeBron in his prime when it comes to making passes that don't seem possible.

If they play each other first round, there is going to be some magic/bird type passing.

They just throw to spots versus to teammates. It's like they are playing 2 seconds ahead of everyone else on the floor.

 

[OrangeDW]

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I'm not suggesting that the only thing to change is to swap Barrett and Mitchell. My assumption is that there are other moves to make to change the roster.

I don't think the Jazz fall to the lottery without Mitchell, unless they get zero back.

Mitchell is an elite talent. The Jazz historically have not had that go to guard that the rest of the league is in love with. I won't be happy unless they trade for another 25 ppg scorer and we are not getting Devin Booker or Ja Morant back in trade. And I wouldn't risk it with lottery picks. It's such a risky proposition. Keep in mind that the Jazz keep raising their ticket prices every year. The new owner needs to fill the seats with exciting winning basketball and is he willing to risk losing season ticket holders if he trades the face of the franchise and one of the faces of the NBA. Do you think the fans were happy when Ty Corbin was the coach. If I remember, and if I am wrong I apologize, you took time off from following the team and so did a lot of others. And Mitchell saved the franchise when Hayward stabbed Gail Miller in the back. He has done everything the franchise has asked and more.

However, if the state of Utah goes through and upholds the law banning transgenders from playing sports and the Jazz lose the All-Star game next season, then I can see Mitchell leaving as he is very much social minded and will not put up with something that he doesn't theoretically need to.

All that said, there is still four games left to right the ship and the Jazz had a private team meeting today. Let's hope that some of the issues can be worked out and they play above their abilities in the playoffs.

Jazz Met Monday To Clear Air After Recent Struggles

The Utah Jazz met Monday before practice and discussed the issues that have led to the team losing six of their last seven games.

kslsports.com

 

[OrangeDW]

I almost threw my phone out the window.

 

[NineOneSeven]

If they play each other first round, there is going to be some magic/bird type passing.

They just throw to spots versus to teammates. It's like they are playing 2 seconds ahead of everyone else on the floor.

And yet they both move slowly, which is really wild. I know they have not done it long, but these guys are clearly top 75 all time players today (and higher).

 

[MikeSU02]

And yet they both move slowly, which is really wild. I know they have not done it long, but these guys are clearly top 75 all time players today (and higher).

Agreed.

 

[Melancer46]

I almost threw my phone out the window.

Guarantee we get stories that Lebron wasn’t in support of the Westbrook trade this off-season.

Also, DeRozan + other pieces obviously would have been better than Westbrook, but I also think the fit with DeRozan would have been really awkward. Better for sure but still awkward.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Guarantee we get stories that Lebron wasn’t in support of the Westbrook trade this off-season.

Also, DeRozan + other pieces obviously would have been better than Westbrook, but I also think the fit with DeRozan would have been really awkward. Better for sure but still awkward.

Oh it’s already happened .. I think KOC reported on this weeks ago for the ringer … it was complete malpractice to choose Westbrook over him … straight up ..only made worse by the fact you had to give up actual assets to acquire westbrick

 

[cliftonparksufan]

RIP Gene Shue. Had a long career but never elected to the HOF. Best known for coaching those great Bullets team vs the Knicks in the late 60's/early 70's. As a young kid being introduced to the NBA, it left a great impression on what sports and rivalries were all about. Those teams with Wes Unseld, Earl the Pearl, Kevin Loughery, Gus Johnson, Jack Marin and then they made the big trade with the Knicks and also acquired Archie Clark, Phil Chenier and Elvin Hayes but just could never get over the top. That rivalry was fierce. RIP Gene. Thanks for the memories.

MSN

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Mitchell is an elite talent. The Jazz historically have not had that go to guard that the rest of the league is in love with. I won't be happy unless they trade for another 25 ppg scorer and we are not getting Devin Booker or Ja Morant back in trade. And I wouldn't risk it with lottery picks. It's such a risky proposition. Keep in mind that the Jazz keep raising their ticket prices every year. The new owner needs to fill the seats with exciting winning basketball and is he willing to risk losing season ticket holders if he trades the face of the franchise and one of the faces of the NBA. Do you think the fans were happy when Ty Corbin was the coach. If I remember, and if I am wrong I apologize, you took time off from following the team and so did a lot of others. And Mitchell saved the franchise when Hayward stabbed Gail Miller in the back. He has done everything the franchise has asked and more.

However, if the state of Utah goes through and upholds the law banning transgenders from playing sports and the Jazz lose the All-Star game next season, then I can see Mitchell leaving as he is very much social minded and will not put up with something that he doesn't theoretically need to.

All that said, there is still four games left to right the ship and the Jazz had a private team meeting today. Let's hope that some of the issues can be worked out and they play above their abilities in the playoffs.

Jazz Met Monday To Clear Air After Recent Struggles

The Utah Jazz met Monday before practice and discussed the issues that have led to the team losing six of their last seven games.

kslsports.com

It's very possible I'm now underrating Mitchell, but I think he's a notch below elite talent.

 

[MikeSU02]

Guarantee we get stories that Lebron wasn’t in support of the Westbrook trade this off-season.

Also, DeRozan + other pieces obviously would have been better than Westbrook, but I also think the fit with DeRozan would have been really awkward. Better for sure but still awkward.

Russillo on the BS Pod said that someone had already reached out about the story to push and he wouldn't do it. This was his quote from the pod:

"There are already rumblings of a major piece coming out saying that LeBron wasn't into to the Westbrook trade, someone already reached out to me and tried to test drive the narrative and I was like no, don't even ****ing try that with me, I don't work on the Jump"

 

[MikeSU02]

It's very possible I'm now underrating Mitchell, but I think he's a notch below elite talent.

He's not in the top grouping with Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, KD, Luka, Steph and Bron. The latter two I know have been a bit spotty but can still crank it to a level unlike most others.

Then you hit the Tatum and level.

Mitchell is the guy who might make third team All NBA, but will always be an all star, which is still very good (and HoF trajectory). IMO, Tatum is above that level. The initial guys I wrote are a level above that.

 

[Melancer46]

He's not in the top grouping with Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, KD, Luka, Steph and Bron. The latter two I know have been a bit spotty but can still crank it to a level unlike most others.

Then you hit the Tatum and level.

Mitchell is the guy who might make third team All NBA, but will always be an all star, which is still very good (and HoF trajectory). IMO, Tatum is above that level. The initial guys I wrote are a level above that.

Without thinking about it too hard, I'd probably say he falls somewhere in the top 15-30 players in the league, which is fine, especially considering he's still only 25 years old. But his flaws are particularly annoying flaws.

Edit: Okay, I went through a list of NBA players and without thinking about it too hard I'd say he's in the 20-25 range. I personally have him at #23.

 

[jncuse]

Oh it’s already happened .. I think KOC reported on this weeks ago for the ringer … it was complete malpractice to choose Westbrook over him … straight up ..only made worse by the fact you had to give up actual assets to acquire westbrick

They would have had to give up actual assets to get Derozan in a sign and trade as well. Magic sort of ignored that as well which is not accurate. The Lakers did not have free cap space to sign him.

From the Bulls, the Spurs got a protected first, two seconds, and a somewhat servicable player (Thad Young) who could be flipped for some assets.

And I suspect to work with the Lakers they would have wanted more than that -- perhaps a fair bit more. Some of the players that went to Washington would have needed to go to San Antonio plus the picks.

Not to say the Lakers would have not been far better off with Derozan (or no Derozan at all) rather than Westbrook.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

It's very possible I'm now underrating Mitchell, but I think he's a notch below elite talent.

He's not in the top grouping with Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, KD, Luka, Steph and Bron. The latter two I know have been a bit spotty but can still crank it to a level unlike most others.

Then you hit the Tatum and level.

Mitchell is the guy who might make third team All NBA, but will always be an all star, which is still very good (and HoF trajectory). IMO, Tatum is above that level. The initial guys I wrote are a level above that.

Without thinking about it too hard, I'd probably say he falls somewhere in the top 15-30 players in the league, which is fine, especially considering he's still only 25 years old. But his flaws are particularly annoying flaws.

He's close. Real close, but I think he is there. Plus, you add in his value to the Jazz and how he has embraced the Utah community ups his value. How many other NBA stars are showing up to complete stranger's pool parties or their biddy league games. Or giving away shoes randomly as he does. And one of the leaders of social change in the NBA.

If you take this season, he is currently 11th in the league in scoring at 26.1 ppg. Of the 10 guys ahead of him, only four guys are younger (Luka, Trae, Ja and Tatum). Booker is a month younger but that's very close so I didn't count it.

Of the 11 guys, he is 4th in 3-point shooting percentage, 4th in free throw percentage, 7th in assists per game (and really a combo guard), 1st in steals and 4th in least amount of turnovers per game. And, on top of that, he is 5th all-time in playoff scoring.

I think he needs to be talked about in the same breath when talking about the elite players in the NBA. I think he is there and not sure what else he needs to do to prove his worth. Unfortunately, the last few seasons the Jazz were snakebit with injuries come playoff time and really hurt themselves. This season, unless they really regroup, the issues are a lot more than just Mitchell strapping the team to his back to win a championship.

 

[MikeSU02]

He's close. Real close, but I think he is there. Plus, you add in his value to the Jazz and how he has embraced the Utah community ups his value. How many other NBA stars are showing up to complete stranger's pool parties or their biddy league games. Or giving away shoes randomly as he does. And one of the leaders of social change in the NBA.

If you take this season, he is currently 11th in the league in scoring at 26.1 ppg. Of the 10 guys ahead of him, only four guys are younger (Luka, Trae, Ja and Tatum). Booker is a month younger but that's very close so I didn't count it.

Of the 11 guys, he is 4th in 3-point shooting percentage, 4th in free throw percentage, 7th in assists per game (and really a combo guard), 1st in steals and 4th in least amount of turnovers per game. And, on top of that, he is 5th all-time in playoff scoring.

I think he needs to be talked about in the same breath when talking about the elite players in the NBA. I think he is there and not sure what else he needs to do to prove his worth. Unfortunately, the last few seasons the Jazz were snakebit with injuries come playoff time and really hurt themselves. This season, unless they really regroup, the issues are a lot more than just Mitchell strapping the team to his back to win a championship.

This is the way I think about these tiers, who is even considering a trade.

Milwaukee wouldn't trade Giannis for anyone in the league. No one. Brooklyn isn't doing KD for Mitchell. Etc. Cuban would hang up immediately for Luka.

Tatum? No. Booker? I don't think so.

Who is the best player that a team would trade Mitchell for?

 

[Melancer46]

This is the way I think about these tiers, who is even considering a trade.

Milwaukee wouldn't trade Giannis for anyone in the league. No one. Brooklyn isn't doing KD for Mitchell. Etc. Cuban would hang up immediately for Luka.

Tatum? No. Booker? I don't think so.

Who is the best player that a team would trade Mitchell for?

Some candidates for this IMO would be:

• Jimmy Butler
• Bradley Beal
• James Harden?
• Damian Lillard?

 

[MikeSU02]

Some candidates for this IMO would be:

• Jimmy Butler
• Bradley Beal
• James Harden?
• Damian Lillard?

I 100% think Miami would send Butler packing for Mitchell. Same with the Wizards and Beal.

Harden, no. But that may be more Morey than anything. But Morey would take a call about trading his family because he is so calloused to the humanity of these things.

Lillard is a good one. Peak Dame, no. Now... maybe. I think they at least take the call and discuss pieces.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He's close. Real close, but I think he is there. Plus, you add in his value to the Jazz and how he has embraced the Utah community ups his value. How many other NBA stars are showing up to complete stranger's pool parties or their biddy league games. Or giving away shoes randomly as he does. And one of the leaders of social change in the NBA.

If you take this season, he is currently 11th in the league in scoring at 26.1 ppg. Of the 10 guys ahead of him, only four guys are younger (Luka, Trae, Ja and Tatum). Booker is a month younger but that's very close so I didn't count it.

Of the 11 guys, he is 4th in 3-point shooting percentage, 4th in free throw percentage, 7th in assists per game (and really a combo guard), 1st in steals and 4th in least amount of turnovers per game. And, on top of that, he is 5th all-time in playoff scoring.

I think he needs to be talked about in the same breath when talking about the elite players in the NBA. I think he is there and not sure what else he needs to do to prove his worth. Unfortunately, the last few seasons the Jazz were snakebit with injuries come playoff time and really hurt themselves. This season, unless they really regroup, the issues are a lot more than just Mitchell strapping the team to his back to win a championship.

The community thing worries me a little. He was way more into that his rookie season. Now, not so much.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Some candidates for this IMO would be:

• Jimmy Butler
• Bradley Beal
• James Harden?
• Damian Lillard?

Let's see. Donovan Mitchell is 25.

Butler is 32
Beal is 28 and finishing his 10th season
Harden is 32
Lillard is 31 and finishing up his 10th season which he has only played 29 games due to season ending injuries.

The only guy on the list that the Jazz might want, with some great draft picks, is Lillard to due to his Utah roots but why would Portland trade for him unless it was a three way trade with the Knicks. Otherwise Mitchell would be out to NY as soon as his contract is up. Those other guys wouldn't want to come to Utah and Utah wouldn't want them. Believe it or not, I thought when Ben Simmons was available that he would fit in nicely with the Jazz along with Mitchell and Gobert.

Everyone thinks the problem is between Mitchell and Gobert. Both of them are co-existing somewhat fine. Snyder's substitution pattern has them playing as few minutes as possible together. Something like half the first quarter to start. half the third quarter to start the half and half the fourth quarter to finish. Both are averaging around 33 minutes per game and the remainder of the time only one of them is one the floor at a time.

The real problem this year was the injuries and the bench. For a little bit, both were out, and Mitchell has missed 13 total games and Gobert 16 total games. Plus others have missed games including Bogdanovic who has missed 12 and Conley has missed nine games and backup center Hassan Whiteside has missed 17 games.

So besides Mitchell and Gobert whose numbers are similar or better than last year, everyone else is down. Conley, Bogie, O'Neale, Clarkson. No Joe Ingels and the other pieces are struggling to fit together. Rudy Gay inconsistent. Same with Whiteside. Trent Forrest inconsistent and was getting big minutes due to injuries. Jared Butler not enough PT due to not picking up Snyder's system. The guys they got in the Ingels trade have been inconsistent, although Juancho Henangomez is starting to show a pulse. The team had a private meeting Monday night. If the team finds their stroke, they can beat anyone. However they lost fifteen games this year where they were up double digits so they are currently the six seed where they will face Golden State.