NCAA Tourney/Bracket thoughts

[upperdeck]

they really need to work with all the leagues so that all the teams start and end the season the same way. just the Su/cornell example.. Cornell gets penalized for starting 3 weeks later and playing a Colgate team with 1-2 games under their belt and losing and syracuse gets rewarded by playing that same team after the Conf Tourneys are over knowing they need to win and Colgate with nothing to play for.

 

[CreaseRat]

they really need to work with all the leagues so that all the teams start and end the season the same way. just the Su/cornell example.. Cornell gets penalized for starting 3 weeks later and playing a Colgate team with 1-2 games under their belt and losing and syracuse gets rewarded by playing that same team after the Conf Tourneys are over knowing they need to win and Colgate with nothing to play for.

the Ivy league isn't going to change their start date. They value education over athletics. Only chance is if the NCAA steps in and moves the start date back to Feb 1. Delaware notoriously starts their Spring practice early and people don't complain about that b/c they haven't been successful lately

 

[upperdeck]

Still no reason to have some schools playing out the string after conf tourneys against others will no reason to play.. same for fball.. schools playing tough games late and others like Ala playing patsy's before the conf finals.

 

[CreaseRat]

Still no reason to have some schools playing out the string after conf tourneys against others will no reason to play.. same for fball.. schools playing tough games late and others like Ala playing patsy's before the conf finals.

If the Cuse/Colgate game was flip flopped on the schedule with the ACC tournament, would you have a different opinion? Patriot league plays their conference tournament at the same time as the ACC.

 

[JeremyCuse]

If the Cuse/Colgate game was flip flopped on the schedule with the ACC tournament, would you have a different opinion? Patriot league plays their conference tournament at the same time as the ACC.

I believe the ACC tourney moves to a 2 week monstrosity next year so there wont be any more post tourney games as everyone including the Patriot who is moving theres back a week as well will end on the same weekend. Personally I like the way the ACC does it and wish they hadn't moved it.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I believe the ACC tourney moves to a 2 week monstrosity next year so there wont be any more post tourney games as everyone including the Patriot who is moving theres back a week as well will end on the same weekend. Personally I like the way the ACC does it and wish they hadn't moved it.

ACC Tournament expanding to two weeks in 2019

This idea is so strange, I had completely blocked it from memory.

 

[JeremyCuse]

ACC Tournament expanding to two weeks in 2019

This idea is so strange, I had completely blocked it from memory.

Strange, complex, and totally unnecessary. First off if your in the 4/5 game and you lose your basically screwed from playing any games the rests of the season as you have to leave that weekend and the following weekend open. The only way around this would be to schedule a mid week game say on Tues or Wed the following week if you can find another program interested but even that is unlikely as most will be playing conf tourney games. I hope they re-consider this or its so bad the first year they scrap it.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Strange, complex, and totally unnecessary. First off if your in the 4/5 game and you lose your basically screwed from playing any games the rests of the season as you have to leave that weekend and the following weekend open. The only way around this would be to schedule a mid week game say on Tues or Wed the following week if you can find another program interested but even that is unlikely as most will be playing conf tourney games. I hope they re-consider this or its so bad the first year they scrap it.

We're playing in a fake tournament where the winner doesn't get an AQ, and everyone is prevented from scheduling one more win that last week of the season.

 

[JeremyCuse]

We're playing in a fake tournament where the winner doesn't get an AQ, and everyone is prevented from scheduling one more win that last week of the season.

Sounds like something we came up with after a 5 hour tailgate. Idiotic.

 

[orange79]

We're playing in a fake tournament where the winner doesn't get an AQ, and everyone is prevented from scheduling one more win that last week of the season.

It's probably too complex and make too much sense for it to happen, but a logical solution is to have the ACC negotiate with a team outside the conference to play whoever loses the 4/5 game. It wouldn't be easy finding that team (wouldn't want a regular season rematch which would narrow down the pool considerably), but it could be done, I think.

 

[HtownOrange]

It's probably too complex and make too much sense for it to happen, but a logical solution is to have the ACC negotiate with a team outside the conference to play whoever loses the 4/5 game. It wouldn't be easy finding that team (wouldn't want a regular season rematch which would narrow down the pool considerably), but it could be done, I think.

Utah, for now. Just an idea, but they likely will not be going g to the tourney for a while and could use the east coast exposure.

 

[HtownOrange]

Still no reason to have some schools playing out the string after conf tourneys against others will no reason to play.. same for fball.. schools playing tough games late and others like Ala playing patsy's before the conf finals.

If I recall, Desko didn't like the ideal of being g off for two weeks between the ACC tourney an the NCAA tourney so he scheduled a game to keep players on par.

 

[wvlax]

ACC Tournament expanding to two weeks in 2019

This idea is so strange, I had completely blocked it from memory.

I would be surprised if this new format lasts longer than one year.

 

[PhatOrange]

ACC Tournament expanding to two weeks in 2019

This idea is so strange, I had completely blocked it from memory.

for 4 teams ? you're going to send everyone home to travel again the following weekend yet everyone is worried about travel expenses? smh

 

[OrangeXtreme]

for 4 teams ? you're going to send everyone home to travel again the following weekend yet everyone is worried about travel expenses? smh

Only the lower seeded team would have to travel for the Finals. The game will be hosted by the higher seed.

The other 3 teams get to sit home.

 

[MSOrange]

First off good to see SU come out and dominate Colgate on Saturday. Still had some issues with gb's and overall sloppy play it was nice to see us dominate on the scoreboard for a change and not have to sweat through another "Cardiac Cuse" type of game. Buttermore and Phoup each played great late in the game and you wonder if they should have seen more time this year especially Buttermore. I will have a post about about the Colgate and Cornell games later in the week and we can get more in depth then.

As for the tourney itself, no real surprises other Nova getting in which I didn't understand but there is usually one of those odd decisions every year so its par for the course. The matchups again are usually regionally influenced which why you have so may re-matches - Cornell/SU, Denver/ND, Loyola/UVA, Yale/Umass etc. My biggest fault with the NCAA lax tourney is the regional and travel nonsense. NCAA makes untold millions a year, lets at least set up a bracket that goes strictly by where a team should be seeded not because there closer to another school that made the tourney as well. That to me is small time and needs to be corrected.

Most intriguing first round match ups are probably SU/Cornell, Loyola/UVA, Hop/Gtown and Albany/Richmond. Duke probably got the easiest first round matchup, ahrd to see how Nova has any chance of winning that game. Maryland vs ROMO could be an interesting game thats closer then the normal 1 seed game but I still expect them to win going away by 4-5+ goals. Umass has had a nice year but playing Yale coming off a loss with a Sr laden team is a horrible matchup. Denver should have the edge at the X but its hard to see where else they can outplay ND right now. ND is better defensively and a month ago you would have been crazy saying this but their offense is definitely better right now. Denver is a mess offensively right now and hasn't been able to replace Cannizaro or the other Seniors they lost to graduation last year. This is a game ND should win.

I am interested to see how Albany looks with and without Fields. He didn't play against Vermont in the AE champ game so you wonder if he will sit in the 1st round as well. Albany ambushed Vermont and go tup 8-0 but then Vermont switched to a zone and befuddled Albany for a good 20+ min before Albany got it cranked again. If I am Richmond I am playing zone from the word go whether Fields is playing or not. Even if Fields can play with that knee is almost no threat to dodge which forces guys like Reh, McClancy, Patterson and Nanticoke to initiate. I still think Albany should win with Ierlan being so dame dominant but a potential 2nd round matchup with their #1 nemesis ND looms very large. Maryland being on the other side of the bracket is huge for the Danes actaully make a final four + run but ND and Yale will be tough match-ups for Albany if they meet up.

Hopkins vs Gtown will be interesting. Gtown's goalie and faceoff guy were playing out of their minds in the BE tourney and will need a repeat if they want a shot at the upset. Hopkins has been up and down a bit this year and can struggle when there not winning draws. Turnbaugh has exceeded everyone's expectations but you worry about him in a big spot as he has been a disaster in the NCAA tourney. If Gtown still had Buccaro I think they would have had a legit shot here but I don't know if they can generate enough offense to win the game. Still this is one of the games I am most looking forward to seeing.

As for us, we will get more in depth later in the week but clearly its two teams who know each other pretty well and will see each other for the second time this season. Clearly the key for SU will be how do they defend Teat? Shut him off, look to double, straight up with Mellen with a quick slide... etc. X play and GB's will also be enormous as I believe SU got annihilated on gbs in the first match up. Faceoff X will be intereseting as well as Varello actually did fairly well against Cornell's main guy in the first game. Delisle looked pretty good against Colgate as did Phaup in the 4th. Could those guys especially Phaup get some run at the X? Could SU spring a guy like Buttermore into the second or third line after his impressive game late against Colgate ? The answer to both of those questions is probably No but if your SU giving Cornell a new wrinkle or two isn't the worst thing in the world.

As for the teams who got left out Buckenll probably had the best case that they got screwed. Great wins over Yale and Loyola and a 7-1 Patriot League record. Unfortunately for them they lost in the 1st round to a mediocore at best Boston U team that they beat by 7 goals earlier in the season. Was a crushing loss as they didn't even get to the semi-finals of the Patriot league tourney. Sealed their fate.

As for Rutgers yes there fans are b$tching up a storm and claiming its rigged and Delaney needs to step in yada yada yada. In truth had RU just won one more game there likely in over Nova. As good as the B10 might have been this year you have to actaully beat some of the good teams to take advantage of that. Against PSU, OSU, Maryland and JHU Rutgers was 1-4. Yes there mostly close game but you have to win more then 1 game as the top four of the conference. Rutgers best win ending up being us and probably ROMO. They had no top 5 or top 10 RPI wins. Rutgers problem is it can't win on the road against a good team and they can't beat Maryland. Missed opportunity for the Scarlet Knights as they now lose a ton to graduation and will likely take a step back next year especially wiht OSU and PSU returning so many key guys.

So you may have answered this already, but what would you be satisfied with this season? Is it still final 4 or bust to be a successful year?

 

[tbonezone]

ACC tournament thought. have the 1st round losers play a consolation game before the finale. teams got rooms booked anyways. you can argue 3rd place is meaningless and the teams have no stake but it's a grudge game against against a quality opponent in front of a big crowd and that win could swing the tables. rather have played duke sunday than the colgate game post tourney. OUTSIDE (THE BOX) OUTSIDE.

 

[Delmar]

TheACC tourney was invented to increase each team’s SOS, and to maximize the number of ACC teams making the NCAA tourney. It still functions that way. UND and UVA were vastly helped by their high quality wins. A constant in the ACC tourney is that the hungrier team wins. This has served us well in years past, but not so much this year.

The tourney will remain problematic until a 6th ACC team steps up. I doubt that a Loyola or a Navy will present itself. We’re going to have to wait for FSU, or GT, or Louisville to start a program.

 

[blust2i3d4]

No. Too many have Title IX problems. Schools that have a women's team and no men's team (notably Louisville, BC, and Va Tech in the ACC; Florida and Vanderbilt in the SEC; Stanford, Colorado, Oregon, Cal, Arizona State and USC-w in the Pac-12; and NWern in the B1G) use the big rosters of WLax teams as part of their effort to counteract the 85 scholarships and ~100-man roster of D-1A football. if they have MLax teams, they lose that counterbalance. Utah is starting both teams next year. That means they're probably OK on their Title IX compliance and adding both doesn't affect anything.

Why doesn't anyone else use Syracuse' strategy on Title IX compliance? Lose the baseball team and add the softball team.

 

[Moontan]

Lose the baseball team and add the softball team.

Baseball? Wrestling might be more accurate.

 

[OnlyOrange]

The ACC needs to add a sixth team, that’s it. Until they do, the ACC tourney is basically meaningless. It gives teams a few more quality games, but it doesn’t serve the AQ purpose, which will become more important in years to come. In the coming years you won’t see 3+ ACC teams getting bids as frequently. The growing talent pool and increased parity will make the AL bids even more competitive than they are now. Also, as the AE and Patriot Leagues continue to improve their quality it won’t be as easy for an ACC team to have a high strength of schedule. Those 8 AL bids will become cut throat and that’s all the ACC can rely on. I think it makes the most sense to approach UMass instead of wait for FSU, GT or another MCLA school to never start a program. Those schools give zero care about men’s lax.

UMass brings football, decent basketball that would benefit from the ACC, and good lax. I’m not sure I see any major school/conference going out of their way for lacrosse though.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

The ACC needs to add a sixth team, that’s it. Until they do, the ACC tourney is basically meaningless. It gives teams a few more quality games, but it doesn’t serve the AQ purpose, which will become more important in years to come. In the coming years you won’t see 3+ ACC teams getting bids as frequently. The growing talent pool and increased parity will make the AL bids even more competitive than they are now. Also, as the AE and Patriot Leagues continue to improve their quality it won’t be as easy for an ACC team to have a high strength of schedule. Those 8 AL bids will become cut throat and that’s all the ACC can rely on. I think it makes the most sense to approach UMass instead of wait for FSU, GT or another MCLA school to never start a program. Those schools give zero care about men’s lax.

UMass brings football, decent basketball that would benefit from the ACC, and good lax. I’m not sure I see any major school/conference going out of their way for lacrosse though.

The ACC already has a team in Massachusetts. Adding a second team in the same TV market benefits nobody.

I'm sure the 10 ACC schools who don't play LAX would be thrilled to vote in another mouth to feed.

 

[orange79]

The ACC needs to add a sixth team, that’s it. Until they do, the ACC tourney is basically meaningless. It gives teams a few more quality games, but it doesn’t serve the AQ purpose, which will become more important in years to come. In the coming years you won’t see 3+ ACC teams getting bids as frequently. The growing talent pool and increased parity will make the AL bids even more competitive than they are now. Also, as the AE and Patriot Leagues continue to improve their quality it won’t be as easy for an ACC team to have a high strength of schedule. Those 8 AL bids will become cut throat and that’s all the ACC can rely on. I think it makes the most sense to approach UMass instead of wait for FSU, GT or another MCLA school to never start a program. Those schools give zero care about men’s lax.

UMass brings football, decent basketball that would benefit from the ACC, and good lax. I’m not sure I see any major school/conference going out of their way for lacrosse though.

You second sentence is in direct conflict with the rest of your post. If the ACC does not add a 6th team to get an AQ (it's really not as simple as "adding a 6th team"), the ACCT is anything but meaningless. IMO, UVa doesn't get in this year without its win over SU and game against ND.

I think you will see the ACC getting at least 3 teams in most years. I get the whole "growing talent pool and increased parity" argument, but the ACC resides in the heart of lax country. I can't see an instance in which the ACC falls by the wayside.

And if you think the ACC will take a partial participant (there is only one ND), it's just not going to happen.

Also, it's hard to see any other ACC school knocking their Title IX compliance out of whack, just to add men's lacrosse.

 

[Hoo's That]

IIRC only NC State (who had a team and dropped it) and Ga Tech (who has a top 10 team in the MCLA), as engineering schools, have enough Title IX wiggle room to add MLax without adding WLax as well. For them I think it's really more a matter of having the money. VPI is too close to their proper Title IX number to add MLax.

 

[OnlyOrange]

You second sentence is in direct conflict with the rest of your post. If the ACC does not add a 6th team to get an AQ (it's really not as simple as "adding a 6th team"), the ACCT is anything but meaningless. IMO, UVa doesn't get in this year without its win over SU and game against ND.

I think you will see the ACC getting at least 3 teams in most years. I get the whole "growing talent pool and increased parity" argument, but the ACC resides in the heart of lax country. I can't see an instance in which the ACC falls by the wayside.

And if you think the ACC will take a partial participant (there is only one ND), it's just not going to happen.

Also, it's hard to see any other ACC school knocking their Title IX compliance out of whack, just to add men's lacrosse.

The ACC tournament will become less meaningful as the parity and talent pool increases. Those extra games won’t have the same impact as they do now. No one on this board can look 5 years down the road and accept that the ACC won’t be as dominate (in lax) as it has been. The ACC needs an AQ in men’s lax, but there isn’t a push to do anything about it because lax isn’t revenue generating yet.

Right now the tournament serves a limited purpose, only giving ACC teams the ability to increase their SoS and add quality wins.

The ACC needs an AQ in men’s lax and people have this idea that ACC/MCLA school will convert to Varsity. I coached at an MCLA school for 4 years and I can tell you there is minimal investment, interest and push from the school admins to do it. The majority of admins don’t even acknowledge that the teams exist. Waiting for VT, GT of FSU to go varsity will be a looooong wait. It just isn’t going to happen. FSU has supposedly been going varsity for about 10 years.

Right now there are teams in the MCLA that could easily give D3, D2 and some low to mid level D1 teams a good game. The talent pool is tremendous. MCLA is the real deal and there are some really talented players that decide to go play at a higher level MCLA school over a D2 or 3 school simply because it’s UGA, or GT, etc. More and more of those players are starting to flow into the D1 ranks and mark my words, in 5-10 years he playing field will be very even across the board. We’re already starting to see it. Go coach or attend some of the upper level tournaments in the south and you’ll see what I mean. Transplants moved south/west for jobs and brought knowledge with them. Now that knowledge is moving on to the 2nd generation of coaches down/over there.