NFL Social Issues

[orange79]

Please use this thread to discuss non-football NFL issues: Cam Newton, taking a knee, Michael Sam, etc.

 

[Day2]

OK, I get why the Dolphins signed Cutler and I get why the Jags signed Nassib. But I don't get why the Titans signed Weeden over Kaep. Not from a football standpoint, anyway.

 

[Melancer46]

OK, I get why the Dolphins signed Cutler and I get why the Jags signed Nassib. But I don't get why the Titans signed Weeden over Kaep. Not from a football standpoint, anyway.

If it were strictly about football, Kaepernick would be starting for someone right now.

 

[bpo57]

If it were strictly about football, Kaepernick would be starting for someone right now.

I think when people evaluate Kaepernick it seems to me they have the 2013 Kaep in mind and not the 2016 guy. He lost out to Blaine Gabbert for a reason. He is a much diminished player, not very accurate and ready to run at the first sign of pressure.

 

[Melancer46]

I think when people evaluate Kaepernick it seems to me they have the 2013 Kaep in mind and not the 2016 guy. He lost out to Blaine Gabbert for a reason. He is a much diminished player, not very accurate and ready to run at the first sign of pressure.

I think when people evaluate Kaepernick, they have the 2015 Kaep in mind. He was an average starter last season and did almost all of it from the pocket, playing like a traditional QB. And he was an above average starter every season before that with the exception of 2015 (albeit being used in some non-traditional ways in those prior years).

 

[bpo57]

I think when people evaluate Kaepernick, they have the 2015 Kaep in mind. He was an average starter last season and did almost all of it from the pocket, playing like a traditional QB. And he was an above average starter every season before that with the exception of 2015 (albeit being used in some non-traditional ways in those prior years).

The guy I saw last year was very focused on the oncoming traffic and not necessarily downfield. He's not a pocket passer and basically has to find a system that fits his skills. I just don't think football GMs hold him in high regard like some fans do. Then when you add in the baggage then it's just not worth it. Most fanbases that I'm familiar with would go absolutely bat if their team signed him.

 

[Melancer46]

The guy I saw last year was very focused on the oncoming traffic and not necessarily downfield. He's not a pocket passer and basically has to find a system that fits his skills. I just don't think football GMs hold him in high regard like some fans do. Then when you add in the baggage then it's just not worth it. Most fanbases that I'm familiar with would go absolutely bat if their team signed him.

This is the whole point. If it were strictly about football, he'd be a starter somewhere. But it's not, and because of that, he's not. There's absolutely zero case to be made to suggest that guys like Josh McCown, Blake Bortles, Jacoby Brissett, Matt Cassel, or Brian Hoyer are better football players than Kaepernick.

And let's even forget about being a starter even though he's clearly good enough to be one. The OP was regarding the Titans signing Brandon Weeden over Kaepernick. There's no football-related explanation for that. Weeden is a worse fit for the offense while also being a far worse football player.

 

[Day2]

I think when people evaluate Kaepernick it seems to me they have the 2013 Kaep in mind and not the 2016 guy. He lost out to Blaine Gabbert for a reason. He is a much diminished player, not very accurate and ready to run at the first sign of pressure.

And what year was Weeden good? Average even?

 

[KaiserUEO]

Kaepernick sucks.

The only job he's done well in the NFL is to ruin the National Anthem.

 

[Day2]

This will be one of those games where it should be a shootout and ends up inexplicably being a 21-10 win for the Pats lol.

Exactly.

 

[Day2]

Watching these teams play both are offense heavy.

It will be a shootout.

Your assessment of their offenses and defenses is correct. But how many times have we seen games like this turn out to be field goal competitions?

 

[bpo57]

This is the whole point. If it were strictly about football, he'd be a starter somewhere. But it's not, and because of that, he's not. There's absolutely zero case to be made to suggest that guys like Josh McCown, Blake Bortles, Jacoby Brissett, Matt Cassel, or Brian Hoyer are better football players than Kaepernick.

And let's even forget about being a starter even though he's clearly good enough to be one. The OP was regarding the Titans signing Brandon Weeden over Kaepernick. There's no football-related explanation for that. Weeden is a worse fit for the offense while also being a far worse football player.

No doubt about it that it's a combo. What he brings to the table is not enough to offset the baggage. If you owned a retail establishment and you were deciding to make a move that had the potential to marginally improve business but could also very well annoy many of your customers- would you do it?

 

[bpo57]

And what year was Weeden good? Average even?

They both are mediocre yet one comes without major baggage.

Before you schedule your trip to Canton to watch CK's induction keep in mind he went 1-10 last year with the lone victory being by one point over the lowly Rams. And most of those 11 games were against below .500 squads.

 

[Melancer46]

No doubt about it that it's a combo. What he brings to the table is not enough to offset the baggage. If you owned a retail establishment and you were deciding to make a move that had the potential to marginally improve business but could also very well annoy many of your customers- would you do it?

If that were the case, of course not. I don't think the same logic applies in Kaepernick's case though. For starters, I think the distraction that signing him would bring is being exaggerated. I also don't think going from Weeden/Cassel to Kaepernick is a marginal upgrade, especially considering the team's scheme.

But sure, in your hypothetical, if there was basically zero reward for hiring someone at my retail store but a ton of risk, it would be stupid to hire them.

 

[bpo57]

If that were the case, of course not. I don't think the same logic applies in Kaepernick's case though. For starters, I think the distraction that signing him would bring is being exaggerated. I also don't think going from Weeden/Cassel to Kaepernick is a marginal upgrade, especially considering the team's scheme.

But sure, in your hypothetical, if there was basically zero reward for hiring someone at my retail store but a ton of risk, it would be stupid to hire them.

I didn't say zero reward, just marginal reward. Where I think we disagree a little bit is I think the reward is exaggerated and you think the risk is exaggerated.

I'm an Eagles season tix holder. I can say with 100% confidence that Birds' fans would lose their minds if CK were signed by Philly. I'm sure there are several other fan bases that fit that description as well.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

They both are mediocre yet one comes without major baggage.

Before you schedule your trip to Canton to watch CK's induction keep in mind he went 1-10 last year with the lone victory being by one point over the lowly Rams. And most of those 11 games were against below .500 squads.

That was another epic leap by you. No one on here or anywhere else said anything about Kaep being HOF worthy. He had the very worst line in the league last year, and as was stated before, ended up being a serviceable QB.

 

[bpo57]

That was another epic leap by you. No one on here or anywhere else said anything about Kaep being HOF worthy. He had the very worst line in the league last year, and as was stated before, ended up being a serviceable QB.

Ever hear of sarcasm? Obviously nobody here said he was HOF worthy.

It's also an epic leap when you hear people say that CK is better than several current starting QBs in the NFL - which I've heard plenty of people say (not necessarily on this board). If he's so great then why did SF show no interest in retaining his services.

 

[Day2]

They both are mediocre yet one comes without major baggage.

Before you schedule your trip to Canton to watch CK's induction keep in mind he went 1-10 last year with the lone victory being by one point over the lowly Rams. And most of those 11 games were against below .500 squads.

If the baggage is the reason why teams aren't signing him, they should be transparent and admit it. I believe the Ravens are the only team to come clean so far...and that might have been after some digging by the media.

It's similar to the situation with Michael Sam. If you don't want the distraction, man up and explain your decision. Don't insult everyone's intelligence by claiming it's a football decision.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Ever hear of sarcasm? Obviously nobody here said he was HOF worthy.

It's also an epic leap when you hear people say that CK is better than several current starting QBs in the NFL - which I've heard plenty of people say (not necessarily on this board). If he's so great then why did SF show no interest in retaining his services.

SF is a TERRIBLE organization right now. Let's leave out whatever they have done. From an economic standpoint alone they are stupid. In 2016, he was the top selling jersey in the league. That's usually enough to keep a guy around.

The name that immediately comes to mind is Mike Glennon. He's better than Glennon. Of course Chicago has realized this as well now so they've moved on. Let me think on this one some more.

 

[Day2]

If that were the case, of course not. I don't think the same logic applies in Kaepernick's case though. For starters, I think the distraction that signing him would bring is being exaggerated. I also don't think going from Weeden/Cassel to Kaepernick is a marginal upgrade, especially considering the team's scheme.

But sure, in your hypothetical, if there was basically zero reward for hiring someone at my retail store but a ton of risk, it would be stupid to hire them.

Yeah, just about every team in the league has at least one player who has taken a knee. So what are they blackballing him for? Because he started it? Some people like to say the players are playing a kid's game. Maybe we should start comparing the owners to children.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Ever hear of sarcasm? Obviously nobody here said he was HOF worthy.

It's also an epic leap when you hear people say that CK is better than several current starting QBs in the NFL - which I've heard plenty of people say (not necessarily on this board). If he's so great then why did SF show no interest in retaining his services.

Jay Cutler is trash and CK would have been a better choice to fill in during the rehab.

Josh McCown? Kaep would give him a run.

Flacco, Kizer? I don't know. I think there are plenty of teams who should be looking his way right now. Especially after trump did his thing.

 

[Alsacs]

If the baggage is the reason why teams aren't signing him, they should be transparent and admit it. I believe the Ravens are the only team to come clean so far...and that might have been after some digging by the media.

It's similar to the situation with Michael Sam. If you don't want the distraction, man up and explain your decision. Don't insult everyone's intelligence by claiming it's a football decision.

Michael Sam was different.
If he could play he would be on a roster.

He was a 7th round pick. Who wasn't good enough. Their are plenty of gay football players. Patriots fans know one of their own is and don't care. It's just kept private because the player doesn't want it public.

Kaepernick is different. The anthem protest is hurting him. He could be a backup but teams are passing on him.

Kaepernick is probably a top 40 QB but he isn't a starter and thus teams are passing.

 

[Day2]

Ever hear of sarcasm? Obviously nobody here said he was HOF worthy.

It's also an epic leap when you hear people say that CK is better than several current starting QBs in the NFL - which I've heard plenty of people say (not necessarily on this board). If he's so great then why did SF show no interest in retaining his services.

You know why. But he's better than Hoyer. And McCown. And Glennon (Trubisky wasn't the plan for this year). And most of the backup QBs in the league.

If you want to talk stats, I heard the other day that Kaep has the third-best interception rate in NFL history.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Michael Sam was different.
If he could play he would be on a roster.

He was a 7th round pick. Who wasn't good enough. Their are plenty of gay football players. Patriots fans know one of their own is and don't care. It's just kept private because the player doesn't want it public.

Kaepernick is different. The anthem protest is hurting him. He could be a backup but teams are passing on him.

Kaepernick is probably a top 40 QB but he isn't a starter and thus teams are passing.

I'd argue he's top 30, but your point is well made. Well, it was before Trump changed the equation. I think a team would do well to bring him in now. Show their true disdain for Trump's comments.

Kaep said long ago that he would stand for the anthem. That shouldn't be an issue anymore.

Teams bringing in Cutler, with his terrible attitude that likely hurts team chemistry hurts a squad more than Kaep would.

 

[Day2]

Michael Sam was different.
If he could play he would be on a roster.

He was a 7th round pick. Who wasn't good enough.

That's not accurate. At the end of the regular season his senior year, Sam was projected anywhere from a late-first to a third round pick. His stock didn't drop until after he came out. Now he didn't have the greatest showing at the combine, but that's nothing new and I challenge you to find another player who went from a second/third rounder to a seventh rounder based on nothing more than the combine. (And he actually would have gone undrafted if not for Fisher wanting to make a statement.)

His preseason stats were solid. Two, even three years after his stint in the NFL was over, every player with the same number of sacks in that preseason was on a roster somewhere. Every other former SEC Defensive Player of the Year has been given numerous chances to succeed in the NFL. Sam's own college teammate, Kony Ealy, is still getting opportunities despite being considered a bust. (Going back to the early draft projections, there were debates over which of the two would get picked first.)

So even if you're right that he wasn't good enough, he didn't get much of a chance to prove otherwise and you would be hard-pressed to find another player that was treated the same way.